Tactics vs Grey Knights in an all Termi game

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Hey guys, my best bud and I are talking about doing an all Terminator game his GK vs my SW. Do you guys have any tactic recommendations or list pointers I should know about with going against GK Termie's? I plan on throwing at him the best SW's have to offer: Grimnar, Njal, and Arjac an additional Rune priest as well as a ruthless band of bad mo'f-ers. I know (in Space Wolfish Fashion) Shooting then marching in on the assault is going to be my best bet instead of hitting straight on. I plan on taking lots of combi plasma as well as Cyclone.. I'm just starting to wonder if Assault cannons will do me better? Are too many storm shields per squad a waste of points? 

[Sigvard]

This is epic. I play both Space Wolves and Grey Knights so please give me a battle report to look through when you have done it.

 

The issue is going to be with Cyclone's is that they are going to be getting their 2+ Saves. The Combi Plasma is a really good idea as they don't have anything as reliable for cracking Terminator armour. The weapons you will find most difficult will be their Psycannons. S7, 4 Shots per Cannon with Rending, Storm Shields are going to be a life saver against these. Whenever they rend it will be expensive so SS will be giving you a much great chance of survival. However, they are expensive.

 

Arjac will be a great benefit, he should be chasing down anyone they consider worth keeping safe, drop pods ahoy! Make sure he is going after the likes of Kaldor Draigo and Mordrak if they are brought to the fight. Arjac is able to survive the punisment they dish out and will crush them with regularity.

 

How many points are you going to be playing?

[Wolf Guard Dan]

The ideal list for playing vs grey knight termies will be SW termies.  Power axes and combi plasma. Or Power fists if he is bringing paladins. Your match-up is way  in your favor.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Question, (as I don't have a rulebook to easily look these things up) don't power axe's come with a penalty as far as Initiative? I am under the impression that against Grey Knights having the initiative will be a big bonus. 

Sigvard, about the Cyclone, that's why I was thinking maybe assault cannons would be better. I do have the chance of rending with those and forcing invuln saves. However a couple of Strength 8 krak missles that go unsaved could work in my favor unless Grey Knights have some ability that prevents insta-death. 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Yes they drop your initiative to one, but they ate ap2 so you will het more through with them. I think in this scenario the assault cannons make a good heavy weapon choice because of rending. The odds on getting a couple krak shots through seem bad by comparison to the 4 assault shots getting a rending through.

[Russ Brother 92]

That and if you are going to take Njal + another TDA RP then you can go Prescience and something else on both if you want, helping out the all important combi-plas or combi-meltas AND your general shooting attacks :) although I'd actually go for Njal + a TDA WP the preferred enemy + other things will be a big help...

[Sigvard]

I agree with the Assault Cannons over the Krak Missiles, there is a simply a much greater chance to cause regular damage to his Terminators. 2 Assault Cnanons in a ten man unit are firing 4 shots with Rending each, where as your cyclones will be firing 2 shots at S8. Insta-Death is great against his Paladins but you have to be able to reliable cause unsaved wounds before it becomes worth while and in this situation you would not be reliably causing enough wounds to justify a cyclone over an Assault Cannon.

 

Power Axes are a point of contention for me as I simply do not see their worth compared to Fists/Hammers. They will do the job fine against regular terminators, but bear in mind in answer to your axes he is going to be running Hammers for free as the Codex:GK allows. They will be a hindrance against Paladins however, 2 wound models which if he is running an Apothcary will be getting FNP also. In that situation Fists/Hammer will be a boon because you will be causing Insta-Death against any of his models should they fail their INV save.

 

As mentioned above your big advantages are going to be Plasma/Low Ap weapons, Storm Shields and one I forgot to mention is Drop Pods. They are a incredibly reliable way to mess up his plans. Especially if Arjac is coming down in one of them. Get him withing 6" of anything Mechanical and pop goes the Rhino.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Those are all good points. I'll definitely be taking drop pods for sure.

And you know, I thought a 2nd Rune priest would be good for the extra psychic weapon and defense.. but preferred enemy coming from a Rune priest would be really nice as well. Got some number crunching to do. 

We agreed no vehicles. I got him to okay the DP because our WG cannot teleport like the rest of the terminators can. I'd be at a great disadvantage if he could just up and appear on me. 

GK get Thunder Hammers for free huh? That's nice... How is there access to Storm Shields? 

[Valerian]

They have zero access to Storms Shields (except for Draigo). Go with Combi- Plasmas and Power Axes (as much as you have); don't worry about going at I1. Assault Cannons for your heavy weapons, and Drop Pods for mobility options.

[WhiteShepherd]

They have zero access to Storms Shields (except for Draigo). Go with Combi- Plasmas and Power Axes (as much as you have); don't worry about going at I1. Assault Cannons for your heavy weapons, and Drop Pods for mobility options.

Drop pods won'tn work if the grey knight player knows what he's doing.  They have a "thing" where if you deep strike within 12 inches of most of their units it's a mishap.  Drop pods are therefore, unreliable.  And ANYTHING that comes out of reserve and is within 12 inches of coteaz, the entire unit he is with, which SHOULD be 10 paladins with 4 psycannons gets to shoot at full ballistic skill at you.  Bye bye whatever comes out of drop pod.

 

My buddy plays that type of list and my wolves get trashed every. single. time... and I almost never lose a game other than playing him. 

[Valerian]

 

They have zero access to Storms Shields (except for Draigo). Go with Combi- Plasmas and Power Axes (as much as you have); don't worry about going at I1. Assault Cannons for your heavy weapons, and Drop Pods for mobility options.

Drop pods won'tn work if the grey knight player knows what he's doing.  They have a "thing" where if you deep strike within 12 inches of most of their units it's a mishap.  Drop pods are therefore, unreliable.  And ANYTHING that comes out of reserve and is within 12 inches of coteaz, the entire unit he is with, which SHOULD be 10 paladins with 4 psycannons gets to shoot at full ballistic skill at you.  Bye bye whatever comes out of drop pod.

 

My buddy plays that type of list and my wolves get trashed every. single. time... and I almost never lose a game other than playing him. 

 

He said that he's playing an all-Terminator against all-Terminator game.  None of the Grey Knights Terminators have access to the psychic power that you're refering to (only Strikes and Interceptors have access to Warp Quake), so the Drop Pods are completely safe.  Coteaz isn't in TDA either.

 

Valerian

[Reichfaust]

Honestly, are Assault Cannons even worth it? I mean, yeah, 4 rending shots at S6 is nice and all but you could buy 6 combi-plasmas with those points. Just a thought.

 

Another thought, Rune Priest with Biomancy & Divination primaris powers would be pretty good too... Presicience for when you're letting off that first volley of combi-plasma fire, and Smite for once the plasma is out of ammo and you need more AP2 to clean up left over Grey Knights.