combat squads and embarking into another transport

[piper76]

I just had a friendly game with my buddy. During our game something came up that we both couldn't agree on. During my shooting phase I blew up one of his rhinos with 2 combat squads in it. They got out and later fell back, regrouped and tried to get into another rhino that was empty. I told my buddy I didn't think he could do that, so we checked the FAQ's. And all it says is that 2 combat squads from the same parent unit could embark into the same transport. So my questions does that mean the same rhino they started in or just the same class of transport that's empty?

[Raeven]

Dedicated Transport pg. 78.  Lower left corner of the page.

[piper76]

You do understand that this is 2 combat squads embarking together, so this is 2 units not 1.

And they are embarking into a different rhino because the one the started in has exploded.

I'll just yes to this one since the FAQ isn't very clear

[scrimdog]

They are the same unit not two SEPARATE ones, just split. There is no reason they cannot get in the same transport together, but I do not understand how they could get into another rhino because that would have to be a dedicated transport for another troop choice, hope this helps. I would not have let him get in the other one at all lol smoke em all!! The only thing I belive he could do is use a raider or raven, just checked the rules for dedicated too and they are quite clear to me check again after reading this and it should stand out

[piper76]

I didn't let him do it. I told him that the FAQ meant the same transport they started in not any transport of the same type or class.

[dswanick]

I didn't let him do it. I told him that the FAQ meant the same transport they started in not any transport of the same type or class.

And you are wrong.  The FAQ allows two Combat Squads to embark in the same transport; any transport, not just their Dedicated Transport.  There is no prohibition on a unit embarking someone else's Dedicated Transport during a game.

[piper76]

Cool, I just wanted to know. Thanks for the clarification on that. So if it happens again I'll know what to do. Thanks dswanick

[Raeven]

You do understand that this is 2 combat squads embarking together, so this is 2 units not 1.

 

 

Sorry, I thought you had already established that a unit that is combat squaded can enter the same transport, based on your interpretation of the FAQ.  Like I said, pg. 78 tells you the restrictions on what units can ride in Dedicated Transports.

[piper76]

Thanks raeven for the help

[Cactus]

 

I didn't let him do it. I told him that the FAQ meant the same transport they started in not any transport of the same type or class.

And you are wrong.  The FAQ allows two Combat Squads to embark in the same transport; any transport, not just their Dedicated Transport.  There is no prohibition on a unit embarking someone else's Dedicated Transport during a game.

 

Really? Assuming that the FAQ you mention is the Combat Squads errata, I thought that second paragraph referred only to deployment. It seems a bit of a stretch to extend to that to over-ruling page 78's "A transport can carry a single Infantry unit..."

[dswanick]

 

 

I didn't let him do it. I told him that the FAQ meant the same transport they started in not any transport of the same type or class.

And you are wrong.  The FAQ allows two Combat Squads to embark in the same transport; any transport, not just their Dedicated Transport.  There is no prohibition on a unit embarking someone else's Dedicated Transport during a game.

 

Really? Assuming that the FAQ you mention is the Combat Squads errata, I thought that second paragraph referred only to deployment. It seems a bit of a stretch to extend to that to over-ruling page 78's "A transport can carry a single Infantry unit..."

 

"Note that two combat squads split from the same unit can embark in the same transport vehicle, providing its transport capacity allows."

 

This is the whole of the sentence.  No restriction is placed on this sentence limiting it to deployment.  So it applies to all embarkation.

[Fibonacci]

Dang it ... I thought I was convienced ... now I'm not sure.

 

OK, take the whol FAQ rule all together:

 

“A ten-man unit with this special rule can break down into two
five-man units, called combat squads.

You must decide which units are splitting into combat squads,
and which models go into each combat squad, immediately
before deployment. A unit split into combat squads therefore
is now two separate units for all game purposes including
calculating the total number of units in the army, and the
number of units you can place in reserve. Then proceed with
deployment as normal. Note that two combat squads split from
the same unit can embark in the same transport vehicle,
providing its transport capacity allows.

Once you have decided whether or not to split a unit into
combat squads, it must remain that way for the entire battle. It
cannot split up or join back together later on in the battle, nor
can you use a redeployment to split up a unit or join it back
together.”

 

So the line about 2 combat squads embarking in the same transport does not say it needs to be its dedicated transport nor does it say it has to be during deployment.  However ...  that sentence is a note to a paragraph which does give the restriction of needing to be done before deployment.  And finally, the last paragraph says they can not be rejoined.  This seems to imply to me that once the combat squads are seperated they can not be counted as the same squad again.

 

So what I am getting is that they can be embarked in the same vehicle when they are declared combat squads before deployment.  But once one squad leaves, never again can they be joined.

[dswanick]

Dang it ... I thought I was convienced ... now I'm not sure.

 

OK, take the whol FAQ rule all together:

 

“A ten-man unit with this special rule can break down into two

five-man units, called combat squads.

 

You must decide which units are splitting into combat squads,

and which models go into each combat squad, immediately

before deployment. A unit split into combat squads therefore

is now two separate units for all game purposes including

calculating the total number of units in the army, and the

number of units you can place in reserve. Then proceed with

deployment as normal. Note that two combat squads split from

the same unit can embark in the same transport vehicle,

providing its transport capacity allows.

 

Once you have decided whether or not to split a unit into

combat squads, it must remain that way for the entire battle. It

cannot split up or join back together later on in the battle, nor

can you use a redeployment to split up a unit or join it back

together.”

 

So the line about 2 combat squads embarking in the same transport does not say it needs to be its dedicated transport nor does it say it has to be during deployment.  However ...  that sentence is a note to a paragraph which does give the restriction of needing to be done before deployment.  And finally, the last paragraph says they can not be rejoined.  This seems to imply to me that once the combat squads are seperated they can not be counted as the same squad again.

 

So what I am getting is that they can be embarked in the same vehicle when they are declared combat squads before deployment.  But once one squad leaves, never again can they be joined.

Nor do they need to be...

[Fibonacci]

I'm not following ...

 

need to be what?  Declaired as combat squads?  Placed in a vehicle before deployment?  Embarked in the same vehicle?

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

I respectfully submit that your interpretation is a bit of a stretch, Fibonacci.

 

Even if we give weight to your interpretation, the last sentence of the second paragraph isn't really part of the paragraph. It's a NB, an 'oh, by the way'.

 

Applying the clear meaning of the wording, two combat squads can skip merrily hand-in-hand from transport to transport, provided that they are two combat squads that used to be one squad. 

[Fibonacci]

I don't know. It all stills seems pretty iffy to me considering the whole rule is about what happens when declaring a squad to be combat squaded and when that declaration has to be made.

 

I was originally of the same mind.  The note was a "by the way, this always happens."  But after reading it whole again .... I have my doubts.  Once they are combat squads they are two seperate units.  Two different units can not get in the same vehicle. Note that before deployment you can put two combat squads from the same unit into the same vehicle.  After that they fuss and argue and you have to pull the Rhino over ...

 

 

[ETA]

MAybe if I pput it this way ... if I could find some reason to say that the Note applied to other situations outside of pre-deployment combat squads I would be happy again.  Any where else on the book that they have used similar notes?  I can think of one off the top of my head where they talk about multiple melee weapons: note that a model armed with two or more weapons adds +1 to its attacks -- something like that, I don't have my little rule book at the office today.  But even this the Note is not a general case thing.  It is regarding a rule about have multiple melee weapons and what happens when you have multiple melee weapons.

 

So if someone can find a Note that is general instead of specific to that rule I can go on doubt free again.