A couple of rules questions

[Sohail187]

Thanks :)

[Grey Mage]

By special rules he means in our case thunderwolf mounts...

[Grimtooth]

 

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2940050a_Space_Wolves_v1.2_JANUARY13.pdf

 

I'm actually 100% sure that the FAQ I cited is for 6th edition. The giant bold print on the first page tells me so.

 

I'm ending this debate before one of us gets banned. You should be ashamed for giving players false information and rules. It is like we are playing two different games, where I follow the rules as written and you ignore them.

Here's a link to my archived copy of "m2170015a_Space_Wolves_FAQ_Version_1_2_January_2012.pdf" which is the last 5th Ed C:SW FAQ doc.  Notice that even in this one, the rule was in black indicating that it wasn't new to the version of the FAQ.  So it is vestigial.

 

http://ppl.ug/QMHUQ2T14cA/

 

Which wouldn't matter if it actually called for a to-hit roll using MH, but it doesn't.  It simply acknowledges that MH can "miss", and I've given you examples of how that can be without a to-hit roll.

 

 

As for your "rules as written" claim - read the rules on pg.7 where the BRB tells you that Codex rules override BRB rules when in conflict.  You are correct that we are playing two different games, bnut you are not playing by the rules if you don't play that MH causes 3d6 hits.  So stop ignoring the rules you find inconvenient, and stop presenting your incorrect interpretations of rules as fact.

you are running the 2012 faq. I am running 2013. My citations are accurate, invalidating yours. Read the updated FAQ.

You are wrong and have been proven wrong, quite completely.  Save some face and just let it go.

[Zero_2005]

You are wrong and have been proven wrong, quite completely. Save some face and just let it go.

So, lets calm down and think this through logically.

 

You're playing a nice, friendly game with someone in your local group. They then try to use Murderous Hurricane as a spell that auto-hits, using this long, convoluted reasoning that relies on a FAQ that no longer exists because it is outdated and logic that only applied in 5th edition. Who among us, if they weren't space wolf players themselves, would allow that for a second? No one.

 

Ignore your previous editions, and stay with only 6th edition. (I think that is where the problem comes from, the old school rules vs. rules that currently exist.) The 6th edition FAQ clearly references the fact that Murderous Hurricane specifically can miss. How does a shooting attack miss in 6th edition? It fails To-Hit rolls. There is no other circumstance possible under current rules that can cause a miss.

 

Combine that adjacent reference with the fact that the Psyker section of the rulebook dictates that every psychic power fall within one of 4 classes of spells, we must discover the one that most fits it. That would be Witchfire.

 

Now that we have all agreed that Murderous Hurricane is a Witchfire, we then have to establish if it has to roll To-Hit or not. Since it doesn't specifically say it doesn't, it is safe to assume that it does have to roll To-Hit. Bolters need to roll to hit, don't they? Every shooting attack that causes wounds must roll To-Hit. Playing devil's advocate, Jaws doesn't require To-Hit, as above posters have cited as logic to explain why they don't have to roll too. Two problems. 1: FAQ specifically says it doesn't have to, making it except for that part of the Witchfire rules. Notice even a year into 6th edition, the FAQ doesn't exempt Murderous Hurricane. 2: Jaws doesn't cause wounds, it removes from play. Murderous Hurricane simply says S3 hits. You must roll To-Wound, like every other shooting attack in the game. They can get Saves, like every other shooting attack in the game. Smells like a shooting attack, looks like a shooting attack. Maybe it's a shooting attack?

 

Finally, I personally would never play with someone, ever, if they try to pull the line of reasoning used by above posters. It would be like me saying that Wolf Claws can re-roll To-Hit AND To-Wound because I can choose To-Hit and normal Lightning Claws have Shred, giving me To-Wound. So rather than encourage new players to make logical leaps for why this one spell is special, wouldn't it be better to treat the spell like every other spell?

[Squark]

Let's turn your reasoning around, shall we? Is it really that jerkish to just say, "Look, 5th edition psychic powers don't always translate well into 6th edition terms (See... Everything we have except for Living Lightning and Fury of the Wolf Spirits, as well as things like Shield of Sanguinus*). The point is, Murderous Hurricane doesn't roll to hit, just like Jaws of the World Wolf."

 

 

*Storm Caller and Tempest's Wrath, for instance, both don't fit into any of the four categories at all. Neither does Shield of Sanguinus, which also let's you do the silly, "Use it in my opponent's turn and then use something else on my turn!"

 

Also, on the Wolf Claw example you gave; Actually, your argument is closer to that than ours. We're arguing that because this is an old codex, certain allowances have to be made for things that don't line up perfectly with the current rules (So a Wolf Claw can pick between being re-rolling to hit or having shred), as opposed to blindly disregarding the intent and just looking at RAW (Well, it says I can pick between re-rolling to hit or wound, but it also has shred, so I can do both!)

[Kurgan the Lurker]

Cool your jets gents before a kill-team is sent in on this thread. Certain posts have been edited and removed as the level of vitriol is starting to rise. Don't let it come to the Emperor's Mercy please.

[sn33r]

On a side note I once farted and :cuss my self..

[Grimtooth]

Unless you have an alias on these boards, this has been discussed and settled upon long before you ever joined these boards, specifically here as well as the official rules forum and even the hellpit known as You Make Da Call on the Dakka forums. You are absolutely, 100% wrong inyour argument.

 

The very fact that you take it upon yourself to designate MH as a Witchfire in the absence of any errata dieecting you to change its profile to witchfire is your most blatant mistake. All of the SW powers remain unclassified to any of the 6th edition definitions. They are specifically worked out per the codex entry and any relevant errata or FAQ pertaining to them.

 

The second blow to your argument is that even per the 6th edition rulebook when a condlict arises the codex takes precedencen. If we place your stance that MH is witchfire and must roll to hit, the codex is in conflict with that rule telling you that MH automatically hits. In this scenario;

 

Codex (MH auto hits) > 6th Edition (Witchfire rolls to hit)

 

your arguement still fails per the 6th edition rules.

 

No need to try and interject a strawman in the form of the wolf claws. Stay on point with the argument at hand.

[dswanick]

BR - you're probably better off just putting him on your ignore list.

 

{{Edit for tact}}

[Coverfire]

A question about warlord traits... You get one warlord trait for your warlord (the model with the highest leadership) and a trait for any special characters on the table?  I am referencing pg 110.

[dswanick]

A question about warlord traits... You get one warlord trait for your warlord (the model with the highest leadership) and a trait for any special characters on the table?  I am referencing pg 110.

No. You normally only get one Warlord trait, and it is only for the Character that you nominate as your Warlord. Pg.110 only clarifies that if that Character is a Spacial Character he rolls as usual unless he is noted as having some unusual circumstance.

[Coverfire]

Cool thank you...

 

Another quickie... Can you cast a psychic attack in overwatch? e.g. from a Rhino access point

[Squark]

No, as per the BRB FAQ.

[Coverfire]

Can the stormbolter of a Rhino shoot at a different target than a figure firing out of the access point?

 

Searchlights: If the stormbolter [or said Rhino] is out of the 24" range but within 36" can the stormbolter shoot at the target allowing the Rhino's searchlight to light the target?

[Squark]

Can the stormbolter of a Rhino shoot at a different target than a figure firing out of the access point?

 

Searchlights: If the stormbolter [or said Rhino] is out of the 24" range but within 36" can the stormbolter shoot at the target allowing the Rhino's searchlight to light the target?

Yes to the first, no to the second; A transport vehicle can shoot at different targets than it's passengers do (And, depending on where the firepoints and weapon mounts are, it may be necessary to do so!), as both units shoot seperately during the shooting phase.

 

However, a searchlight will only illuminate something if you could actually shoot at it in the first place; that's why havoc launchers are good for chaos rhinos (And one more reason why the chimera is great).

[montegue]

Newhart is the purpose of Barrage on a whirlwind?

[Coverfire]

 

Can the stormbolter of a Rhino shoot at a different target than a figure firing out of the access point?

 

Searchlights: If the stormbolter [or said Rhino] is out of the 24" range but within 36" can the stormbolter shoot at the target allowing the Rhino's searchlight to light the target?

Yes to the first, no to the second; A transport vehicle can shoot at different targets than it's passengers do (And, depending on where the firepoints and weapon mounts are, it may be necessary to do so!), as both units shoot seperately during the shooting phase.

 

However, a searchlight will only illuminate something if you could actually shoot at it in the first place; that's why havoc launchers are good for chaos rhinos (And one more reason why the chimera is great).

Problem is the 36" range during night fight. Otherwise I wouldn't need to find a way around it because I would just cast Living Lightning.

[Grey Mage]

Newhart is the purpose of Barrage on a whirlwind?

Barrage? It allows you to fire out of line of sight, and changes how the template causes wounds, as shown in the book- reread the section a couple of times and then rephrase your question if you still are confused.

[Coverfire]

Do Fenrisian Wolves (taken as wargear) help in Challenges?

 

If Logan starts the turn off in one squad and give it relentless, and then joins another in his movement phase can he give both squads Relentless?

[dswanick]

Do Fenrisian Wolves (taken as wargear) help in Challenges?

Because they are models in their own right, even though they are purchased as wargear, Fen.Wolves do not participate in Challenges.

"Q: If a Space Wolf character is involved in a challenge, can any Fenrisian Wolves they have strike blows, have Wounds allocated to

them, or offer Moral Support? (p31)

A: No.", C:SW FAQ

 

If Logan starts the turn off in one squad and give it relentless, and then joins another in his movement phase can he give both squads Relentless?

The wording of the rule lends itself to that (mis)interpretation. But, in my opinion, it's not in the spirit of the game to do so.

[Heimdall Skullcrusher]

Do Fenrisian Wolves (taken as wargear) help in Challenges?

 

If Logan starts the turn off in one squad and give it relentless, and then joins another in his movement phase can he give both squads Relentless?

No read the High King ability it says explicitly at the beginning of the turn. So it has to be granted prior to the movement phase.

[Coverfire]

 

Do Fenrisian Wolves (taken as wargear) help in Challenges?

 

If Logan starts the turn off in one squad and give it relentless, and then joins another in his movement phase can he give both squads Relentless?

No read the High King ability it says explicitly at the beginning of the turn. So it has to be granted prior to the movement phase.

So he can leave the squad and they'll still be relentless?

[dswanick]

 

 

Do Fenrisian Wolves (taken as wargear) help in Challenges?

 

If Logan starts the turn off in one squad and give it relentless, and then joins another in his movement phase can he give both squads Relentless?

No read the High King ability it says explicitly at the beginning of the turn. So it has to be granted prior to the movement phase.

 

So he can leave the squad and they'll still be relentless?

That's what I was referring to, when I posted:

 

If Logan starts the turn off in one squad and give it relentless, and then joins another in his movement phase can he give both squads Relentless?

The wording of the rule lends itself to that (mis)interpretation. But, in my opinion, it's not in the spirit of the game to do so.

As the rule is worded, the USR selection happens at the start of the turn.  But then, every unit that Logan is joined to has that USR for the entirety of the turn.

Thus Logan could start the turn joined to a unit, select a USR, give that unit the USR for the remainder of the turn, leave that unit (who will still have the USR until the end of the turn), and join a new unit giving them the same USR for the remainder of the turn also.

 

However, I don't believe for one second that's how it's meant to work.