L30n1d4s Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Understanding that the new C: SM is not even out yet, we still know enough to make the following assumptions: 1 - DA can take the new SM as battle brothers 2 - Centurion (Devastators) are a HS choice and can take up to 6 models a squad. 3 - Centurions have a 2+ save (no Invul that we know of), multiple wounds each, the ability to take TLed Heavy Lascanons, are relentless (due to S and P), and have the normal Chapter Tactics/ATSKNF Based on this, imagine taking an allied Centurion Squad and doing the following: a) Kitbashing them to be more aesthetically pleasing (i.e. better helmets, no armored loin-cloth plates, etc), painting them in DW colors, and adding appropriate DW heraldry/bitz. b) Taking 6 Centurions to a squad and equipping them with Omniscope (Split Fire and Night Vision for the squad) and TLed Lascannons c) Taking Azrael, using the FNP WL trait, and attaching him to the squad. Now you have a unit with majority T5, 2+/4++ save, 15 wounds, FNP (if within 3" of an objective), with the ability to move and shoot 6 TLed Lascannons a turn, all with Split Fire/Night vision. The unit would also be Fearless and have PE: CSM from Azrael. For a normal Doublewing army, which struggles with long range fire support (CML and Riflemen Dreads aside), I think this would make a very strong, albeit very expensive backfield fire support unit that, in a pinch, could also fight in close combat or contest objectives. Synergisitically, Azrael makes DW/RW troops, so you use these to as your primary maneuver element while the Centurions provide backfield covering fire. Survivability-wise, the unit would be able to absorb a lot: -Bolter shots --- (2/3 to hit)*(1/3 to wound)*(1/6 to fail armor save)*(2/3 failed FNP) = about 40 bolter shots to cause a single wound -Lascannon/Heavy Rail Rifle/Melta/Plasma shots --- (2/3 to hit)*(5/6 to wound)*(1/2 to fail invul save)*(2/3 failed FNP) = about 5 shots to cause a single wound (no ID because of T5) About the only things they would fear are Railguns (only on Hammerheads), Medusas (not that common in most IG lists), Conversion Beamers at max range (again, uncommon), and Wraithcannons (only 12" range, so somewhat easy to avoid). Place the DW Centurions and Azrael on top of a Bastion for good LOS all over the board. Additionally, Azrael can man a quadgun (Tled BS5) for additional anti-aircraft firepower and hand out his Ld 10 to Ravenwing units maneuvering around the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemid Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quoted for page-span-breaking emphasis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quoted for page-span-breaking emphasis. What he said ^^^^^^ :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retaliation Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 We are the Unforgiven. Any marine that shoots well enough to be called Sterngaurd in a lesser chapter should be given a storm bolter and powerfist. Any marine that displays peerless CQC abilities to be called Vanguard in a lesser chapter should be given lightning claws or a thunderhammer. Any marine that proves himself worthy of being equipped with a Centurion suit in a lesser chapter is surely worthy enough of being given a mace of redemption and storm shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain sox Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quoted for page-span-breaking emphasis. What he said ^^^^^^ This seriously made me spit my beer all over the monitor. Amazing humour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I wouldn't stick azreal with them, persay, but a power field techmarine or libby maybe. He could watch to see if the suits shut down! And i was thinking more of 3 suits w/ lascannons and typhoon launchers, plus the nightfighting and gyroscope thing. Possibly magnatize for the grav weapons if they are good. Mine would be painted up as regular tactical marines, but probably 9th company veterans or something. Maybe make the suits very battle damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherkk Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Backed up by a couple shooty dreadnoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I won't plan anything like that until I know the fluff behind the units (heck, the DA may never have had access to them), and I'd definitely have to gut and rework a fair deal of the models (why the heck do dedicated shooting platforms have fists, and why the heck would a unit with "assault drills" need fists either?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 stobz sums up my current mood quite nicely :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Throw some robes over them... nah, we are the Unforgiven, but that would be unforgivable. We will just have to wait until 7th edition rolls around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradiel Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 what Stobz said. you sir L30n1d4s report to cell 42 right away. a interrogator-chaplain will join you shortly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Other solution : Paint them in Dark red with mechanics symbol and say it's the Forges of the rock which decides to try out the new material... Of course you've joined a tech with PFG with them ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Master Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quoted for page-span-breaking emphasis. What he said ^^^^^^ :P Ditto DM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmo Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I'm with Stobz! No, Nay, Never! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 The best way to get centurions into any army is to buy some Rogue Trader dreadnoughts (they look to be roughly the same size) and declare 'counts as'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I'm not totally against allies (IG for example, I find quite interesting from a fluff POV)... but that is not the best of ideas. Yes, you are bringing 6 TL lascannons (heavy or not...there is only 1 kind IIRC), plus Azrael ... that HAS to cost something like 500 points (at least). If they point a vindicator and an Executioner (which IIRC cost less than 500 points), you're in for some tough love... Do you really think the DA need ANOTHER unit that is hard to crack, low mobility and that lives of what the rest of the army does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Depends.... If they have the AA ability if not moving... Yes... I think I could find a use to those with lascannons :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Do you really think the DA need ANOTHER unit that is hard to crack, low mobility and that lives of what the rest of the army does?Haha... no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillyfish Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Well, I do note that you suggest making different models, so you have addressed my primary objection of 'Argh, no, my eyes hurt!' :D I would say that I still feel reluctant to take them and would prefer to rely on other units for anti-air. That said, it's your army, so you could take them. I would just prefer not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Quoted for page-span-breaking emphasis. What he said ^^^^^^ Ditto DM Because it hasn't been quoted often enough yet. Althouh I must admid that they might look a bit less of an eyesore if they got black armour. Wonder what the fluff behind them will be, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I'm not totally against allies (IG for example, I find quite interesting from a fluff POV)... but that is not the best of ideas. Yes, you are bringing 6 TL lascannons (heavy or not...there is only 1 kind IIRC), plus Azrael ... that HAS to cost something like 500 points (at least). If they point a vindicator and an Executioner (which IIRC cost less than 500 points), you're in for some tough love... Do you really think the DA need ANOTHER unit that is hard to crack, low mobility and that lives of what the rest of the army does? well, the azreal problem could be solved with a very cheap PFG tech marine to hide behind them and give them both 4+ and maybe a higher leadership or something. he can also boost cover for another unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magos Valkamar Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 The best way to get centurions into any army is to buy some Rogue Trader dreadnoughts (they look to be roughly the same size) and declare 'counts as'. That would be like replacing them with dreadknights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Judging by the rumours the best ones to ally would be Ultra's and run Relentless Devastator Squads, not Centurions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Judging by the rumours the best ones to ally would be Ultra's and run Relentless Devastator Squads, not Centurions.IF you can do that. If GW is smart, they will limit the "Chapter Tactics" to primary detachment only. That said, I feel they've always been a little stupid about their flagship Codex. It would simply mirror the DA limitations to not be able to FOC swap in an Allied detachment (which, let's face it, is one of our Chapter Tactics) - you can't monkey with secondary Detachment rules. It really shouldn't be that hard to sit in a conference room with a bunch of white boards and write down "What did we give X, Y and Z..." and then work out an internally consistent design plan. I do it all the time at work in just my office with a single white board. It becomes even easier when you use computer tools to do it. C:DA should not have been more powerful than C:SM, but at the same time, nothing in C:SM should be more powerful than what C:DA can do. Something tells me their design system is very wonky, like they don't even sit there in the room with their other products while they are working or some such... It's about the only way I can explain it to myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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