So, if BL chosen are troops...

[Sception]

Based on the preview pages, there's reason to expect that Black Legion players using the upcoming book will be able to field chosen as troops, even without the big man, but will have to by Vets of the Long War for all units able to do so.

 

Of course, this is just educated guesses and speculation at this point - some or neither of that could be true, and it certainly won't be everything the supplement offers.  There's almost sure to be some wargear and maybe a different warlord trait table as well.  But while we're waiting to see for sure, does anyone want to join me in an overly long winded, rambling speculation about about potential configurations for troop chosen, and whether or not particulr builds might be worthwhile?

 

 

If we're taking chosen as troops, then we're likely considering them as replacements for chaos space marines.  Chosen can take the same options, for the same points, so the primary thing to consider is the difference in the cost of the basic troopers, and whether the additional options and slots of the Chosen are ever worth taking.  If we assume required vets, the difference in cost between CSMs and Chosen is a painful 6 points apiece, meaning you get nearly three regular CSMs for each two Chosen.  Of course, chosen come with ubergrit, so if you were going to buy that for your CSMs anyway, that difference drops to 4 points a model.  However, most CSM players these days seem to prefer CSMs without ubergrit, so in general it's probably closer to 6 than 4.

 

Another thing to note is that the chosen champ does not have more attacks than the regular chosen troopers, but also doesn't cost them extra points, so that's 10 points on top of the cost of models that CSMs are paying, but chosen aren't.  In fact, the chosen champ, even with vets requirement, is effectively four points cheaper than the CSM champ.  Huh.  Anyway, in a unit of 10 models that comes out to around a point per model back on the chosen, so we're typically looking at 3 to 5 points more per model for Chosen when compared to CSMs, though again probably closer to 5 since ubergrit is not generally considered 'worth it' for CSMs to begin with.  Also, the CSM champ comes with ubergrit by default, so that's two points less per unit that Chosen save over ubergrit CSMs.

 

It's worth pointing out that this is on point worse than the comparison normally is between CSMs and Chosen, because the required vets upgrade costs more for chosen than it does for CSMs.  Then again, in the regular book chosen aren't troops without a hefty tax in the form of Abaddon, so that's neither here nor there.

 

Anyway, what this all boils down to is that 10 Chosen cost 50 points more than a unit of 10 CSMs with the same gear, or 32 points more than a unit of 10 CSMs with ubergrit.  They have +2 attacks over the CSMs, and +1 attack over the CSMs with grit, so while they have the advantage in bulk of attacks, ubergrit has the advantage in points efficiency for extra attacks.  I would take the time to point out that the cost of extra attacks would stay pretty constant if chosen didn't have to pay extra for vets, and that if anything that points cost should be decreasing rather than increasing with scale since more attacks also means more attacks lost when models die, and higher cost makes chosen more vulnerable point for point, but that horse is long dead.

 

What I will say is that CSMs are mostly being run as a shooty unit.  A rhino is pretty terrible at delivering an assault, but it can get a unit into rapid fire range almost sort of competently, and since 6e rapid fire infantry can move and still fire single shots up to max range, giving bolter infantry an effective 30" threat zone, which is tolerable.  For all their extra cost and extra attacks, chosen add nothing on the ranged game, apart from the option to spend even more points on more special weapons, and that's a game that makes them a progressively higher priority target with progressively lower durability - not an ideal situation, imo.

 

 

So what's the most typical CSM build that we might consider replacing with Chosen?  The build I see most often is 10 CSMs with pair plasma or melta, sometimes in a rhino, sometimes with havoc launcher or power weapon, melta bombs, and/or combi weapon on the champ.  Taking the exact same unit as chosen instead of CSMs costs 50 points more.  That 50 points gets you two extra attacks per non champ body.  Again, if you wanted extra attacks, you could get one extra attack per non-champ body for only 18 points, making that 50 point investment look pretty bad.  You can try and build up the chosen's shooting by taking extra special weapons, and if you were fielding the unit with flamers or meltaguns that doesn't seem to be too terrible an idea, but if you're talking about plasma, then your costs are ballooning out even further, to the point of being almost 100 points more than the CSM squad.

 

You could instead drop chosen to try and shave points, since chosen can take the same number of specials regardless of unit cost.  8 chosen is only 10 points more than 10 CSMs with the same kit.  7 Chosen is 10 points less.  But that's costing you wounds and bolter shots, and as such is hardly ideal.

 

The one place where you might consider it is for a retinue squad, since that reduced squad size serves the function of getting your lord in the transport without giving up a special weapon.

 

 

All of that blather basically comes down to this: Chosen are a poor substitute for CSMs, even for CSMs that are already paying points for extra close combat weapons, but might be worthwhile as a character escort if you want them to share a ride.  And that's not too terrible, conceptually.  A couple CSM squads, plus a chosen retinue for your lord/sorcerer/warpsmith?  Such a retinue would probably consist of 8 to 9 chosen, with a pair of plasma or up to four meltaguns, in a rhino, maybe with extra armor or a havoc.  The squad would cost 10 to 50 more points than a similar squad of 10 CSMs, depending on equipment and number of models.  You could run 8 to 9 CSMs escorting a character as well, but the difference between one and two special weapons is a lot more noticeable than the difference between to and three or even four.

 

The thing that kills Chosen escorts is not the comparison to CSMs, but the same thing that often kills CSMs themselves: comparison to plague marines.  Plague marines can also take two specials while still escorting a character.  They don't have extra attacks, but do have poison, and innate fearless if the character isn't fearless themselves (though ironically you're more likely to be escorting a non-fearless hq with chosen, since you need a lord for troop plagues anyway).  Most importantly, plagues are significantly more durable than CSMs against most weapons, even when you factor in their higher points cost, and that matters a lot for a retinue.  Of course, the difference in durability is even more extreme when comparing them to chosen, especially with the vets requirement thrown in.  Noise marines also provide a painful comparison, with +1 init, fearless, and access to FNP.  Chosen can buy those things, but not for any points you'd want to pay.  Yeah, they can't take plasma or melta, but that AP3 flamer is pretty tasty, especially if the character they're escorting is taking the brand as well.

 

But what about their extra options?  Five special weapons?  Six power weapons?  Starting with the power weapons, since they're easiest to dismiss: how are you going to deliver them?  They're hugely expensive - nearly as expensive as terminators, and nowhere near as durable, and can't even deep strike.  They can ride a land raider, but so can termies and mutilators.  They're super high priority, and crazy fragile for their points, and our land raider is kind of terrible.  Maybe in a spartan or storm eagle?  But you you really think they'd be better in such than twice as many CSMs, which would run about the same cost?  If we had a cheaper assault transport option, one that termies and muts couldn't also ride, then maybe there'd be an argument, but as it is, no.  If you have spare points, maybe one or two hidden power axes in a chosen escort squad that's already carrying a couple special weapons, but honestly you should not have that many spare points in any game size bar apocalypse, and in the latter the whole squad will get wiped out by a D template so they're still not worth it.

 

 

On the special weapon end, the plasma spam squad has some popularity, but I don't like it, mainly for placement reasons.  Such a unit is kind of neat in a list with Huron where you can infiltrate them into a strong opening position (though I still prefer termies), but Black Legion won't have that option.  Rhinos sort of work for this, but they're a dirt poor substitute for drop pods on such a squad.  If we had drop pods, or functional dreadclaws even, I'd be all about it, but as it is?  I mean, consider the comparison to combiplas terminators, which are only a few points more per model, and can deep strike.  Yeah, the terminators only get one shot, but they're tough enough to survive a round of enemy fire and still be a threat with their power weapons.  Chosen can shoot as many times as they want, but honestly, with how expensive and fragile they are, how often will that be more than once?  Sure, the chosen are theoretically scoring, but units that don't live to see the end of the game don't score anyway.  Check back when FW gets around to re-doing the dreadclaw, that might change things for this build.

 

 

The last option chosen have that CSMs don't is the ability to take a heavy weapon in squads of 5 guys.  The min size chosen squad with a lascannon, once vets is included is 120 points.  120 to put a five wound scoring lascannon on a home objective isn't too terrible, actually.  The cheapest CSM version of the same is 170 points, which is costly enough that it just isn't a thing people do.  They're considerably more expensive than cultists objective grabbers, and considerably more fragile than plague marines or allied plague bearers in that role, but the long range threat may be worth it.  The painful comparison this time is with Noise Marines, which for a cheaper price EDIT: only a few more points can field five dudes and a blaster master.  The noise marine squad is fearless, which is pretty significant, and while their heavy weapon has less strength and AP, it's still strong enough to reasonably threaten light to mid armor, and is far more potent against any infantry of meq quality or below, making it more versatile and, imo, just better overall.  Remember, 'ignores cover' counts against vehicles as well - a lascannon may be slightly more likely to crack a rhino, but the blastermaster doesn't have to contend with cover or smoke.

 

Again, though, not everyone wants to run Slaanesh, so...

 

You could, of course, add a plasmagun or two to such a squad, but in my mind the point of it is 'cheapish scoring lascannon', and extra points for special weapons would be poorly spent.  A defense line or bastion with an icarus, on the other hand, might be a worthwhile investment for them.

 

 

Right now, that's all I can see.  Chosen troops would be decent as rhino-riding character escorts if you're not running Nurgle or Slaanesh (in which case you're better off using plague marines or noise marines respectively), and min size units with a lascannon would be alright backfield objective campers with a bit of long range kick if you're not running Slaanesh (in which case you're better off with noise marines).

 

(edited to correct note about NM points costs - thanks TJ)

[Tenebris]

I think the Chosen are as troops quite a huge point sink but they have some value if they are in there to boost our thrust with the basic CSM. A solid squad of five Chosen with 4 Plasma Guns and a basic Rhino can help the CSM on foot to kill the enemy squads. The basic CSM squad is mostly a ranged unit, which can get nasty with two Plasma and it is close to the threat level of the Rhino Chosen. You engage with your CSM, you thin the enemy ranks with bolter fire and the occasional plasma shot and if all goes well you have killed an average of 2-3 enemy models. Now use your tiny Chosen squad to finish the enemy unit with their Rapid Fire Plasma Guns, now in short range due to the Rhino mobility. In short we could use the Chosen as force multipliers, to crack those things that need to be cracked. 

 

If the Rhino gets blown up you are still capable to fire one turn but after that you are usually dead. I think a combination between CSM and Chosen has some merit but here premeasuring, wise tactics and a solid PA infantry core are a must.

 

All in all the Chosen are a subpar unit. If they are troops without the Abby tax than I might consider them as a firepower boost for my CSM squads on foot. Those two attacks sound nice but to make them really effective you need power weapons and those are way too expensive to be used on the Chosen. For some on spot power weapon killing time a MSU of terminators is a way better investment. 

 

As an escort unit I think that for PA HQ things like cultists blobs, basic CSM and even Possessed work much better. 

[Prot]

Here's the thing...

 

If you're playing Black Legion, and you say you make a choice to not use any other troop (let's say the exception is cultists for obvious reasons), then I think you should get a slight discount on the Chosen.

 

I say this because 1) you're limiting your options, intentionally. and 2) they're too expensive even for moderately competitive play. They are Grey Hunters with weapon options, and still no pod.

 

Without giving specific point values, look at the following:

 

10 Chosen, VotLW, 2 Meltaguns, and Champ has a special weapon: 235

 

10 CSM, VoTLW, 2 Meltaguns, and Champ has a special weapon: 190

 

So you are paying 45 points, which as a percentage of the whole unit cost is a LOT, for what?

An extra attack and a tax to take more weapons.

 

I probably would have reduced the points for Black Legion, or discounted the marks. Otherwise, this is a tough sell.... I'm not talking about on a competitive level here.

[RolandTHTG]

I'll probably revisit this later with some further thoughts, but just a note for malisteen, 5 man Blastmaster Noise Marines are 125 (w/no other upgrades), so directly comparable to the 5 man las VotLW chosen. Differences are I5, fearless, 1 attack vs I4, Ld 10, 3 attacks, reroll vs marines.
I think the choice of which squad you want would depend if you expect your camper squad to be assaulted off or shot off. Vs shooting, it comes down to if you expect the Blastmaster or the Lascannon to be more needed by your force, plus how well you roll Morale while vs assault I think the Chosen actually come out ahead, at 3 attacks per model & possible rerolls against 1 attack  and fearless.

[Sception]

Thanks for the correction on points costs.  Note that, within the context of the hypothetical Black Legion rules listed above, the Noise Marines would also be required to purchase the vets upgrade.

[Tenebris]

Yet even so they would outperform a Chosen squad with Lascannon, speaking from first hand experience with four Blastmaster squads in a tournament. With the Blastmaster you can have so much utility due to its special rules, it is S 8 AP 2, Ignores Cover and Pinning. Which means that you instakill most of the infantry in cover, you can snipe special models in the squads due to the new Blast rules, and with its high strength you can threaten all vehicles on the board, even if it is only glancing them.

 

In melee they are a Fearless squad that strikes at I 5, which means they will 2/3 of the times go first and assign a wound or two on the attacker before they are attacked back. Which could very well mean the difference from wiped out to still kicking, and Fearless helps here a lot. 

 

The Chosen as I see them are a subpar option, be it compared with the cult troops as when comparing them to the other infantry in our codex. The Plasma delivery system is done better by the Terminators, so too with the power weapon spam, leaving the Chosen as weak force multipliers that need to be babysit a lot to be effective. I still consider them as a way to bring more special weapons to the table and if you use a Rhino squad to hunt enemy stragglers well than you might, just might make their points back. 

 

I think 8 marines is the max I would go with the Chosen, with probably 3 Plasma Guns in there and perhaps a Lightning Claw on the champion. Nothing too extravagant and nothing you would miss much if they die. Sure you can use the Chosen to spearhead the assault, and the CSM have to assault, we cannot afford to play the waiting game, but here you need to really tool them up to be cost effective.

 

My setup would be: 

 

Chosen, 3 additional Chosen, 3x Plasma Gun, Lightning Claw, Melta Bombs, naked Rhino = 260 Points with Veterans

 

One or two such squads can hope to inflict some serious damage but once they are out of the Rhino they will be sitting ducks. Still between Plasma and tank rush we have good chances to wreak some havoc. 

[Sception]

I agree about sonics trumping chosen for '5 dudes & a gun' squads.  Of course, that's assuming you're running a slaaneshi lord to make them troops.  If not, I could see running a squad or two of MSU chosen with lascannon.

 

I'm skeptical of your chosen set up.  CSMs could do the same thing with two extra wounds and down a single plas for like 30 points cheaper.  If you needed rhino space for an infantry HQ, sure, but that would just be for the one unit, I'd stick to CSMs for any additional squads.  And also, only if you're not running a nurgle lord for troop plague marines.  But all that's just repeated blather from above.

[Tenebris]

IMO the Chosen should have WS and BS 5 to make them worth their points as an elite unit. This would have differentiated them from the basic marine and would make them an awesome shooting unit. 

[Xenith]

Chosen represent the most point efficient unit for special weapons to models in the army - the crux that the whole min/max las/plas was built on. A 5 Man las/plas squad, without VotLW is 125pts, which isnt too bad for an objective camper. 275pts for 10 guys and 5 plasma guns. Don't forget the champion can take a plasma gun for those rare precision shots. Consider the synergy with abaddon, all of those plasmas reroll gets hot and to wound rolls against marines. That's pretty powerful.

 

 

IMO the Chosen should have WS and BS 5 to make them worth their points as an elite unit. This would have differentiated them from the basic marine and would make them an awesome shooting unit. 

 

BS5 plasma guns is a bit much, I think. You'd be looking at 20pts per gun, then.

[Excessus]

Tenebris, Blastmasters are AP3...

[Sception]

My fantasy land chosen are Ws & Bs 5; S, T, & I 4; 1 attack and wound, ld 10, stubborn, hatred, preferred enemy (space marines), and would have an optional upgrade for 'chaos armor', gaining fear and feel no pain at an additional cost, and up to four models could take heavy, special, or power weapons, all at discounted prices.  They would pay for marks by unit rather than by model, so as not to discourage larger units.  Marks would also unlock additional options - khornate chain axes for a couple points a model, defensive grenades for nurgle, sonics blasters as special weapon options for slaanesh, band of sorcerers for tzeentch.  Unmarked chosen would also gain some advantage, perhaps fearless when attached to the army warlord (if fearless marked retinues were desired the player could always turn to cult units).  The unit would have options to deploy normally, or in a drop pod, or via rhino or land raider or a new 100ish point mid armored daemonic assault transport.

 

 

As for las plas squads - if your army includes abaddon to make them troops, then the points efficiency of such squads are right out the window due to that massive tax.  If not, then they can't hold the objectives they camp on.  Either way, they're outperformed by five noise marines with a blaster master in this job.  Things may be different for black legion, though, if indeed they gain the ability to field them as troops without the big man.

[Xenith]

True you pay the abby tax.

 

I guess I've just had success with them based on my playstyle and local meta.

 

I play a semi mobile gunline, Abby is the only counter assault element sitting in a block of troops/with obliterators somewhere. If I see someone moving to assault, abby moves to intercept.

 

Then I shoot my opponent off the table. Leadership and combat ability rarely come into it, but abby is there if I need him.

 

I've won plenty of games without Abaddon ever making it to combat. I don't see this as 'wasting his points'.

 

He's kind of like Mephiston - Paying 125pts to upgrade a standard jump pack libby to Mephiston is often a no brainer.

 

You pay 160-200pts for a HQ choice. What else can you get for the 60-100pts that you can pay to upgrade your HQ to abbadon? Maybe a unit of cultists? A mutilator?

[minionboy]

As a good black legion player, i've had my own thoughts about them.  If you keep Chosen cheap, they're not terrible, a squad max flamers and a power weapon will be devastating on assault, and the flamers are pretty cheap upgrades, just be careful about shooting yourself out of assault.  Also, compare them to Havocs and it gets a bit more interesting.  5 havocs with 4 meltaguns, VOTLW and additional combat weapons is 128, while a squad of 5 chosen with 4 meltas is 140.  That 12 points buys you higher leadership and 4 extra attacks on the charge, plus scoring, which while free, isn't terribly prohibitive either.

[Sception]

the problem with 'devastating on assault', is that ime assaults with chosen just don't happen.  whether on foot or in rhinos they're just too slow and too vulnerable to enemy ranged fire.  Most of the time, I only get to melee with things that want to be in melee with me, and even then they tend to get the charge.  Chosen don't really seem to be a unit that likes to grind it out with the likes of genestealers, daemonettes, terminators, spawn or bikes with character support, or even a big old orc mob if the orcs are getting the charge thanks to their waagh.

[daboarder]

As a good black legion player, i've had my own thoughts about them.  If you keep Chosen cheap, they're not terrible, a squad max flamers and a power weapon will be devastating on assault, and the flamers are pretty cheap upgrades, just be careful about shooting yourself out of assault.  Also, compare them to Havocs and it gets a bit more interesting.  5 havocs with 4 meltaguns, VOTLW and additional combat weapons is 128, while a squad of 5 chosen with 4 meltas is 140.  That 12 points buys you higher leadership and 4 extra attacks on the charge, plus scoring, which while free, isn't terribly prohibitive either.

 

Doesn't really buy more leadership, practically speaking.

 

The havocs go to 10 due to champ with VOTLW,

 

The chosen go to 10 with VOTLW

[Zhorzh]

I've been playing with Abbadon and Chosen for quite some time, and I came to conclusion  that CSMs will be always better than Chosen because of better versatility.

 

Chosen aren't bad, but they aren't great either. By taking them as troops you're tailoring against marines, and that's their main problem. Even when you build them right, by giving them 5 special weapons, you're tailoring them further against specific targets. Let's do a comparison:

 

6 Chosen, MoN, Veterans, 5x Plasmaguns = 213 pts

10 CSM, MoN, Veterans, Ultragrit, 2x Plasmaguns = 228 pts

 

The Chosen unit is my typical Chosen build, and that CSM unit is what I'd run if I didn't had Chosen.

CSM unit costs a bit more. Chosen have more Plasmaguns but fewer bodies and only one bolter. Every time a Chosen dies it hurts your army a lot, while CSMs can afford getting more casualties and while they get only 2, their PGs are much safer. Also more Bolters = better against hordes.

[totgeboren]

Yet even so they would outperform a Chosen squad with Lascannon, speaking from first hand experience with four Blastmaster squads in a tournament. With the Blastmaster you can have so much utility due to its special rules, it is S 8 AP 2, Ignores Cover and Pinning. Which means that you instakill most of the infantry in cover, you can snipe special models in the squads due to the new Blast rules, and with its high strength you can threaten all vehicles on the board, even if it is only glancing them.

 

As mentioned, Blastmasters are Ap3, but more importantly, the new blast rules do not allow you to snipe special models, unless they are fired by barrage type weapons. Otherwise they work just like normal direct fire weapons, with the exception that ll wounds cased by the blast have the "ignore LOS" rule. That is, you can kill stuff you can't see with a blast weapon, but wounds are still allocated to the closest enemy model.

[the jeske]

 

6 Chosen, MoN, Veterans, 5x Plasmaguns = 213 pts

MoN not needed . 5 plasma are overkill

 

6 chosen 3 plasma .veteran  .rhino with combi plas x3  

HQ

demon prince 2 psy lvls. dark mace , . of nurgle , wings

 

2xhelldrake , bale flamer

 

ally demons

Guo

10 PB

DP

 

The MCs take care of the hard stuff and tanks . helldrakes kill meq , vets are played like IG vets only with a better save and a crappier chimera.

[Tenebris]

Yes yes I know that they are AP3, my mistake, damn I even liked the correction...still Blastmasters are great weapons and the troops that carry them are also great to keep that weapon active for several turns at least. The adversary has to kill every single model before he comes to the Blastmaster, Precise Shots excluded. 

 

The list above is fun but I think Plasma CSM do it better. If the Rhino gets blown up you still have few more bodies before they get to the meaty Plasma gunners. 

 

I think we should wait and see what the Chosen would actually do for the Black Legion but regardless of that I still think I would field maximum two squads and most certainly not more. Force multipliers yes, troops no, or not in such numbers to function as such. If they score is only an added bonus that makes them useful in the last turns when they are out of the Rhino. 

 

I much more favor fielding terminators of all colors than Chosen, they work better for MY lists, though some boost to firepower is more than needed ATM with the incoming new SM and the Chosen can provide that, for a steep price though. 

 

The more I look at the current gameplay the more I see that Chaos has to go with diversity rather than specialization. With our book we can blanket the board with 6+, 3+,2+ and - units and this should be our trump card. The Graviton gun is only more emphasizing this aspect. So the Chosen should fill the niche as killer unit to grant the coup de grace to weakened, wounded and stranded enemy units and with that if they can deliver have a chance to bring their points back. 

[totgeboren]

I don't know, I have tried making armies of lots and lots of different units, thinking that I would always have something as a good counter to whatever I face on the other side. Like throwing cultists at graviton weapons and so on.
But because you can target whatever you want in 40k, it most often just ends up with me always presenting a good target for my enemies weapons. He'll bomb my cultists with the Whirlwind and shoot my Terminators with the graviton weapons, because they have long range (I have no idea what range the G-weapons have, but I hope it's not more than 24"... )

There is a reason why one-trick pony armies tend to do well. A big part of the other guys guns will have no good targets.

If w40k had some mechanism for allowing units to draw fire, mixed armies would work much better.

[Verythrax Draconis]

I don't know, I have tried making armies of lots and lots of different units, thinking that I would always have something as a good counter to whatever I face on the other side. Like throwing cultists at graviton weapons and so on.

But because you can target whatever you want in 40k, it most often just ends up with me always presenting a good target for my enemies weapons. He'll bomb my cultists with the Whirlwind and shoot my Terminators with the graviton weapons, because they have long range (I have no idea what range the G-weapons have, but I hope it's not more than 24"... )

There is a reason why one-trick pony armies tend to do well. A big part of the other guys guns will have no good targets.

If w40k had some mechanism for allowing units to draw fire, mixed armies would work much better.

I agree about the one-trick pony part.

What upsets me in 40k isn't the nerf of disregard to fluff, or leaving armies collecting dust for 2 editions waiting for a refresh, is that the game is an exploit-fest now.

Focusing on one-type of units you overload the 1-2 units that the opponent have that are actually able to shoot them down.

You can build absurd horde-based lists that are boring as hell to play, but can't be wipe out no matter what - you can even prevent flyers from act, if they don't find a suitable spot to put their base on the table!

Armies need to be build on an "all-around" fashion, but if a single opponent do an specialized list, you're screwed. If you play regularly against the same people, it becomes a rock-paper-scissors game, where Player A loses, build a new list specially to face Player B - Player B loses, build a new list to face Player A - and so on.

Codices are filled with filler units, forcing armies to 1-2 builds.

Don't get me started on the GW fetish for 2000+ points and Apocalypse.

Simply it's not fun to play anymore.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

If you want four Plasmas or Meltas to boost your firepower, aren't Havocs a better choice? 

[Brother Aiwass]

Havocs should have been splited in two units.

 

Special weapons (plasma, melta, flamer) -> Support squad - Troop Choice

Heavy weapons (ML, Lascannon, HB) -> Havoc squad - Heavy Choice

[Fibonacci]

If you want four Plasmas or Meltas to boost your firepower, aren't Havocs a better choice? 

Havocs have to compete with oblits for the Heavy slots while Chosen have to compete with non-troop cult squads and terminators.

[Sception]

Or, as per the hypothetical premise of this thread, cultists, chaos marines, and troop cult squads.

 

I like Jeske's 6 chosen with three plasma in a rhino squad.  Might have to try a couple of those.