DA for allies question

[malorn24]

If I take Biel and some termies as troops as an ally and nilla sm's with pods do I get a DP assault and a DW assault in the first turn?

[Wraith776]

I don't see why you couldn't, as they both have rules from deep striking without having to role for reserves.

[Bryan Blaire]

Belial's rule Grand Master of the Deathwing specifically states "In a primary detachment... DWTS are troops choices instead of elites..."

 

I.E. you can't take Terminators as Troops as in an Allied Detachment.

 

Also, per the FAQ, any squads using Deathwing Assault specifically count toward Reserves Limits. They must abide by the 50% rule in Eternal War scenarios.

 

For the purposes of calculating the amount of Reserves allowed in malorn's scenario, you would only ignore the numbers for the podding squads, not the DWTS though, it would count when dividing your 50%.

 

Regardless of the above two points, yes, they can both come in on Turn 1.

[malorn24]

ok then lets reverse it. DA army and lysander as allies in drop pods.

 

Can I do a drop pod assault.

[Bryan Blaire]

Yes, because you can always do a Pod Assault, unless you are somehow playing a scenario where it is specifically excluded for some reason. It isn't in the Eternal War scenarios in the BGB.

 

However, you would still only be allowed to DWA 1/2 the DWTS (and anything else coming in with Deathwing Assault).

[malorn24]

Thank you for the clarification

[Valkyrion]

Belial's rule Grand Master of the Deathwing specifically states "In a primary detachment... DWTS are troops choices instead of elites..."

 

I.E. you can't take Terminators as Troops as in an Allied Detachment.

 

I've completely missed that rule and have been allying in DW as troops. Only in friendly games, mind, so it's no big deal, and I always lose anyway. I don't have the codex to hand, but I presume the same caveat applies to Sammael?

[Grey Mage]

Sadly it does.

[Teetengee]

It also applies to CSM, which makes one of the possible uses for 1ksons disappear. Oh well. It seems to be par for the course that modern [x]wings are primary detachment only.

[Grey Mage]

Just my personal opinion, but while it would allow for some interesting narrative its chances for abuse via the allies system just plain outweighs that consideration in most cases.

[Bryan Blaire]

I agree, Grey Mage, but GW turned on its head about that subject by allowing Tau to ally with Farsight Enclave and rumored to allow C:SM of one Legion bloodline to ally with C:SM of a different Legion bloodline.

[Grey Mage]

Whats that have to do with primary detachments of one codex being in the other? Maybe Im just tired and am missing it.

[Quixus]

Normally you can only have one detachment from one codex unless you play 2000 pts or more. This limits the FOC slots. Not sure if this works points wise, but without that rule you could have 6 elites slots in a 1500 pt game (you would need 2 HQs and 4 troops though).

[facmanpob]

Whats that have to do with primary detachments of one codex being in the other? Maybe Im just tired and am missing it.

I think Bryan was referring to the FOC shifting options only being available to Primary Detachments, a restriction that is not present in the Farsight Enclaves supplement.

 

This means that you can run an allied detachment using Farsight Enclaves and get extra Crisis suits in your list as troops, and a Riptide with the awesome Earth Caste Pilot Array signature system, without having to pay the heavy "bonding knife" tax levied against Fire Warriors, and without losing access to the nice Codex: Tau Empire Signature systems available to your Primary Detachment.... essentially you can cherry pick the best stuff from Codex Tau and from Farsight Enclaves, without losing the ability to run Crisis suits as troops in the allied slot.

 

I actually think it was an oversight though, and may yet be FAQ'd in an update to the Farsight supplement, as it does go against the FOC shifting options in C:DA and C:CSM, which must be in the Primary Detachment.

[alex567]

I know it's off topic slightly but while we're on the subject would you recommend purchasing the farsight enclave book?

[facmanpob]

I know it's off topic slightly but while we're on the subject would you recommend purchasing the farsight enclave book?

Entirely depends on 2 things: How much do you want to read the new Farsight fluff? How much do you want to run a battlesuit army?

 

The new fluff is pretty good - extensive, well written, with a good dollop of grimdark, not the usual Tau stuff at all. If you go over the Advanced Tau Tactica site and take a look in the Library sub-forum, there's a thread called "[Farsight Enclaves] Fluff". Page 1 of that has some edited highlights of the fluff so that you can get a feel for it.

 

If you do buy it, I would go for the .epub or .mobi version from the Black Library site, rather than the iPad version.... you get the same stuff (minus a few 360 degree pictures), but it's cheaper!

[Grey Mage]

Normally you can only have one detachment from one codex unless you play 2000 pts or more. This limits the FOC slots. Not sure if this works points wise, but without that rule you could have 6 elites slots in a 1500 pt game (you would need 2 HQs and 4 troops though).

No, allies dont get you a second full FOC chart.

[dswanick]

 

 

Whats that have to do with primary detachments of one codex being in the other? Maybe Im just tired and am missing it.

I think Bryan was referring to the FOC shifting options only being available to Primary Detachments, a restriction that is not present in the Farsight Enclaves supplement.

 

This means that you can run an allied detachment using Farsight Enclaves and get extra Crisis suits in your list as troops, and a Riptide with the awesome Earth Caste Pilot Array signature system, without having to pay the heavy "bonding knife" tax levied against Fire Warriors, and without losing access to the nice Codex: Tau Empire Signature systems available to your Primary Detachment.... essentially you can cherry pick the best stuff from Codex Tau and from Farsight Enclaves, without losing the ability to run Crisis suits as troops in the allied slot.

 

I actually think it was an oversight though, and may yet be FAQ'd in an update to the Farsight supplement, as it does go against the FOC shifting options in C:DA and C:CSM, which must be in the Primary Detachment.

 

 

This may not be an oversight, the same can be done running a FW IA Armored Company with an allied GW C:IG Infantry company. 6 Squadrons of Leman Russ Troops, plus two Infantry Platoons, and you still have 3 HS slots for artillery batteries and 1 HS slot for an allied specialist LR squadron or artillery battery. This also covers the biggest weakness of the AC list - lack of scoring troops as you can pack 10 into the allied slots.