Why are there no female primarchs?

[Týr]

So yeah why is that?

I can accept the reason that only males are supposedly "strong" enough to become part of the Legions or whatever the argument might be.

But primarchs are an entirely differnt thing. Why did The Emperor not create any of his primarchs as female?

 

[Teetengee]

Who says their weren't? (Looks at a couple missing numbers.)

[Vesper]

To prevent us from Primarch hentai.

[Greyall]

On a recent event, one of GW's artists explained that since the creative department was overwhelmingly composed of men, they were cautious with female characters/units/models so as not to go down the sexist route inadvertently.

 

And it doesn't make it better if the missing Legions were led by females who were then killed by their eighteen brothers and their father...

 

I do think one of the missing Primarchs is referred to as 'brother' or another male word in the HH novels. Not sure, though...

[Týr]

It's a shame tho hobby and universe is so male dominated. The universe really lacks some female characters. ADB writes some great female characters but again they are all human.

 

It can easily immagine Emperors Children being led by a female Fulgrim. That could have been awesome. 

[Kol Saresk]

On a recent event, one of GW's artists explained that since the creative department was overwhelmingly composed of men, they were cautious with female characters/units/models so as not to go down the sexist route inadvertently.

 

And it doesn't make it better if the missing Legions were led by females who were then killed by their eighteen brothers and their father...

 

I do think one of the missing Primarchs is referred to as 'brother' or another male word in the HH novels. Not sure, though...

True, but English has no neutral' gender-specific words. Usually, the masculine words re the neutral words. Like walking into a room full of people and going "Hey guys!" Guys ecomes neutral rather than remaining masculine. If they said "our brothers" it could also be interpreted in a similar fashion, if one wanted to do such a thing. However, I agree with Greyall that the fact that if they were female, the sequestered Primarchs would end up giving off a very mysoginistic view.

 

Theory: Well the Emperor did use his on DNA when foring the Primarchs. Theoretically, it is a form of asexual reproduction. The Primarchs can technically only be male. Assuming that genetically, they are male as we percieve "male", in terms of XY chromosomes. And that might be why women can't do it. Not because "men are stronger" or "higher testerone levels" but actually a rather basic explanation of women do not literally have the genes to become an Astartes the same way men lack the genes necessary to be able to give birth.

[Legatus]

There are some Imperial Guard regiments that have female soldiers, but since most of the official GW regiments are heavily based on WW2 armies, including female soldiers would seem out fo place. 

 

Space Marines, well, they were specifically engineered to be warriors, so making them all male is the obvious route. Plus they too are heavily based on historical armies (knights, vikings, roman legion, etc.), so again females would seem out of place. 

 

It is different for Eldar, since they are not thematically based on historical factions, so they have no real gender separation. Neither do orks, since they are an entirely asexual species. 

 

 

Edit: 

 

Theory: Well the Emperor did use his on DNA when foring the Primarchs. Theoretically, it is a form of asexual reproduction. The Primarchs can technically only be male. Assuming that genetically, they are male as we percieve "male", in terms of XY chromosomes. And that might be why women can't do it. Not because "men are stronger" or "higher testerone levels" but actually a rather basic explanation of women do not literally have the genes to become an Astartes the same way men lack the genes necessary to be able to give birth. 

That is a plausible explanation, since genetic compatibility is given as the official reason for why only men can be turned into Space Marines. However, I don't think the explanation "males are better suited for warfare --> therefor if one created a breed or warriors he would naturally make them all males" should be considered controversial. 

[Greyall]

Again, this might be my paranoid marketing self talking, but Fulgrim's vanity, whinyness and perfectionism wouldn't exactly break the universe's sexist tone. In fact, he's probably the only Primarch who is a no-no on being female.

 

Truth be told, though, it's not that sexist a universe. There are super strong women - from Imperial troopers and officers to Sisters of Battle (who are remarkably well done - and don't come talking to me about breast armour, if that's diminishing then I'm due for a month of deep meditation), Inquisitors, adeptus of all kinds, navigators, governors, remembrancers, Rogue Traders, daemons (yeah yeah, they have no gender, but that's inside the Warp), Eldar warriors and aspects (ADB actually wrote a great Eldar Phoenix Lord, though she didn't talk a lot), Dark Eldar killers of all kinds, Tau soldiers, pilots and commanders, etc. etc. etc.

 

Hell, the Imperium is actually devoid of mysoginy on an "official" level, which is surprising for such a backwards regime.

 

Also, Space Marines play the roles of knights. They're a shout-out to medieval times that, with all their many, many flaws are the inspiration for some of the greatest tales and legends the lot of us have read. They're the archetype hero who saves the damsel and kills the dragon. They are also a droplet in a world filled with female characters, which is remarkable when we consider the fan and playerbase.

[Azatoth]

Emperor, male XY chormosome.

Females XX chromosomes.

 

Turning an Y chromosme into a working non mutating X might be a bit difficult.

[Greyall]

I wouldn't bring true science to a 40K fight...Primarchs have organs we never heard of and were jumpstarted with Warp Energy.

[Kol Saresk]

Amazons are female warriors. In pre-school, the kids didn't worry about the biggest boy. They worried about my little sister, who was on the smallest people there. And she shoved the biggest kid's face into the sandbox. In a BCT company in the Army, I saw a Female soldier beat out everyone in the PT tests. And that was by the standards used for males. Some of the more vicious Greek deities were of the female persuasion.

 

It's not obvious to go all-male. It's classical to go all-male. Obvious would be to inter-mix, which is why the IG are becoming more and more mixed. But since part of the reaoning is "no female Astartes", it seems that is one of the few things to ever change.

 

EDIT: @Greyall, I didn't mean to say that the universe was mysoginist, but if the missing Primarchs were female, it would definitely seem that way since they were covered up and never talked about again.

 

Ooh, Joan of Arc for the female knights!

 

@Azatoth: You're assuming the Emperor is XY. For all we know he is YZ and the only males are compatible is because of the shared Y chromosome.

[Greyall]

But they are knights, regardless of the many facts you mentioned, Kol. They're the strict adaptation of knights of various cultures, made to be the boyish dream of being the bid damned hero in 40K.

 

I completely agree with your second paragraph.

[Týr]

But the Emperor have both X and Y chromosones. So he should be able to create females. Simply pair two X chromosomes instead of X and Y.

It's quite simple biology right there. 

[Kol Saresk]

We're assuming he has XY chromosones. The Emperor was made from the pure psychic essence of one thousand shamans. We don't know how human his biology is. Fore all we know, he is an entirely different species and he went with all males not just because of the knight theme, but because he thought men were simple and would be easier to control. Heck, technically we're assuming he is actually a he and not an it who is just referred to as a he.

[Conn Eremon]

His soul was, but all that got funneled into a fetus that was later born much like a normal human. I think it is safe to say he began as a gender, he or she. However, considering his exceptional prowess with biomancy, such concepts rapidly became irrelevant.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Because most 40k fans are males, as are the people who write for them. And lets face it, if those writers could convincingly write out of their own skin, as it were, they wouldn't be working for GW. That's why almost all 40k fiction is told from the POV of humanity; the writers aren't good enough to convincingly present an alien POV*. 

 

I personally would rather they leave women out almost completely than incorporate the oh-so-tired female tropes so prevalent in other sci-fi/fantasy.

 

*Note - This doesn't mean I think I'm a better fiction writer than they are, but then I don't get paid to write fiction, despite what some defendants say about my Statement of Claims.

[p34ce]

It's a shame tho hobby and universe is so male dominated. The universe really lacks some female characters. ADB writes some great female characters but again they are all human.

 

It can easily immagine Emperors Children being led by a female Fulgrim. That could have been awesome. 

 

 

Why not a female Perturabo or Angron?

 

You've fallen into the exact trap that they were trying to avoid - naturally placing the female character in the group known for lusty, deviant behaviour and excess.

[Týr]

Because most 40k fans are males, as are the people who write for them. And lets face it, if those writers could convincingly write out of their own skin, as it were, they wouldn't be working for GW. That's why almost all 40k fiction is told from the POV of humanity; the writers aren't good enough to convincingly present an alien POV*. 

 

I personally would rather they leave women out almost completely than incorporate the oh-so-tired female tropes so prevalent in other sci-fi/fantasy.

 

*Note - This doesn't mean I think I'm a better fiction writer than they are, but then I don't get paid to write fiction, despite what some defendants say about my Statement of Claims.

 

Yeah I can see the authors have a hard time getting work outside BL. (sarcasm)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Abnett_bibliography

[Marshal Rohr]

Female space marine thread! Just like the old days!!!

 

 

B)

[Legatus]

Amazons are mythological figrues. Joan of Arc was a figurehead, used to boost the morale of the french who believed her to be divinely guided. 

 

So, some anecdotes about that really tough chick you knew aside, there are thousands of years of military history, of various different cultures, depicting male warriors going to war. If females were just as suited for warfare as males, then half of the warriors depicted in historical documents and images would be female. Out of sheer necessity. A tribe or culture would not just cut the number of their potential warriors in half because of some chauvinistic oppression. Not if their survival depends on it. 

[Týr]

 

It's a shame tho hobby and universe is so male dominated. The universe really lacks some female characters. ADB writes some great female characters but again they are all human.

 

It can easily immagine Emperors Children being led by a female Fulgrim. That could have been awesome. 

 

 

Why not a female Perturabo or Angron?

 

You've fallen into the exact trap that they were trying to avoid - naturally placing the female character in the group known for lusty, deviant behaviour and excess.

No.

It's my personal opinion that I think this Legion would be cool with a female leading them. Not because of what they are known to become but what they were and represented before that.

And Fulgrims personality is one I find as well suited for a female character as a male character.

[Kol Saresk]

His soul was, but all that got funneled into a fetus that was later born much like a normal human. I think it is safe to say he began as a gender, he or she. However, considering his exceptional prowess with biomancy, such concepts rapidly became irrelevant.

Ah, that part I was unaware of.

 

But the point still stands, his DNA was used as the basis of the Primarchs. And look how human they are. Or rather, aren't. They were completely, one hundred percent made from a being that is able to see the warp the same way I can see a target at 450 yards without a scope.(Note: I did not say I could hit the target.) The Emperor may use a human body, but it is still questionable just how human he is. He still might be Homo Nuevo. Or Homo Prometheus since he is supposed to have been a guiding influence throughout human history. Maybe he was Joan of Arc.........

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

 

Because most 40k fans are males, as are the people who write for them. And lets face it, if those writers could convincingly write out of their own skin, as it were, they wouldn't be working for GW. That's why almost all 40k fiction is told from the POV of humanity; the writers aren't good enough to convincingly present an alien POV*. 

 

I personally would rather they leave women out almost completely than incorporate the oh-so-tired female tropes so prevalent in other sci-fi/fantasy.

 

*Note - This doesn't mean I think I'm a better fiction writer than they are, but then I don't get paid to write fiction, despite what some defendants say about my Statement of Claims.

 

Yeah I can see the authors have a hard time getting work outside BL. (sarcasm)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Abnett_bibliography

 

Would perhaps be a stronger response if it was responding to anything I'd said. At no point did I say that they only work for GW. 

 

Regardless, comic books and pulp fiction. A strong resume for any writer.  My eyes, they roll.

[Marshal Rohr]

When men (specifically nerds) write female characters, there is a lot of inadvertent stereotyping and things that could be construed as sexist that men don't think about or find offensive, that a woman might. For instance, Tyr, you picked the Primarch obsessed with control, looking perfect, how others feel about him, and prone to -fits when his feelings get hurt. Personally, I feel like that is a poor characterization of an alpha female, falling into all the tropes of a woman in power.

I mean, could you imagine Mat Ward writing about a female Primarch? The loyalist one would've been locked in a tower and had to be rescued by her brothers after killing a gigantic turtle-lizard and the Traitor one would be the lover of all four chaos gods simultaneously, or something else suitably 'blegh'.

For God's Sake, Graham McNeill can't go two chapters in an Emperor's Children novel without mentioning something Rapey. Could you imagine if one of the Codex Writers got ahold of it?

Im all for badass female characters. Femshep is the and Jessica Chastain from Zero Dark Thirty is my ideal woman. But in 40K and 30K the people writing this stuff and setting the 'truth' wouldn't be able to deliver.

[Entei]

Sanguinius would have made a great female character imo, he has that motherly love for his legion.

 

Must... Not... Joke about... The... Red... Rage...