Starting DIY looking for insight

[daryl]

Alright, redoing my DIY. Going with the Defiant Reapers Chapter.

Got two ideas for paint scheme. Starting with the troops.

and the alternate being

The first is based on the Death Scythes from the 6th edition core book. I really liked their pattern. And the second is an inverted Flesh Tearers Scheme.

Any and all insight are welcome, thanks.

[Ace Debonair]

Second one gets my vote. Straightforward and simple is always a plus.

[Naminé]

The second one looks better to me; the lighter colour on the helmet helps a lot.

[daryl]

As for the origin:  I like the thought of founding the chapter cause of a bureaucratic error.  Old cognator engine or something on Terra is engaged by some lowly adept when he is fact checking an exploritor fleets discovery or something.  No warp storm isolating the planet or chapter fleet hurled through the warp, just a paperwork messed up.  Makes them more appreciative of fate.  

 

Not going to be associated with any founding, fits more with the "whoops, what do you mean there's a new chapter" approach.  

 

Homeworld will be blackpowder level of technology.  Highgate sounds like a good name.  

 

Since they are a relatively new chapter it makes them defensive about their place in the Imperium, hence the Defiant in the name.  Reapers because they are going to reap the enemies of mankind.   

[Naminé]

I have something similar with my chapter; bureaucracy in the Imperium is tremendously high, so mistakes do happen and things slip through the cracks.  I like the idea :p

[Ecritter]

Hard to have a clerical error that takes 50 to 100 years to complete.  It does that about that long to establish a chapter.  Not to mention the High Lords, AdMech and a founding chapter have to be involved in the process.  Just doesn't seem logical to me.  Sorry.

[Naminé]

Hard to have a clerical error that takes 50 to 100 years to complete.  It does that about that long to establish a chapter.  Not to mention the High Lords, AdMech and a founding chapter have to be involved in the process.  Just doesn't seem logical to me.  Sorry.

 

Massive massive organisation broken into thousands of different departments, staff and even generations... and that's IF things don't change in the processes over those generations.  Person A may have been told to do this, but Person X may want the opposite.  Problem is person A first started the process 50 years before person X was even born.  At some point it becomes too late to stop.

[Conn Eremon]

Namine has the right of it and, from what we've been shown, it can be even easier. Dynasty Z has the honor of recording into Imperial databases identifying information related to Chapter creation. Names, places, gene-seed, etc. Many Dynasties, but Dynasty Z foceses entirely on one piece of information. Thing is, fourteen years into the Founding, Dynasty Z is wiped out by a local plague or minor uprising. Three centuries from now, their absence will be first noticed but is overlooked as unimportant until the next Founding requires a new Dynasty.

 

Or maybe there's a power play. Information is changed or erased in the process as someone sets another up to fail.

 

This is the grimdarkness of 40k, where the Imperial bureaucracy works solely because of momentum. It is not a well-oiled machine. As someone once mentioned here, this is a government that dominates the known galaxy, whose worlds can only communicate by interpreting the symbolic dreams of madmen sent through the plane of Hell. Catastrophic errors aren't just common, they're prevalent and constant.

[Ace Debonair]

This is the grimdarkness of 40k, where the Imperial bureaucracy works solely because of momentum. It is not a well-oiled machine. As someone once mentioned here, this is a government that dominates the known galaxy, whose worlds can only communicate by interpreting the symbolic dreams of madmen sent through the plane of Hell. Catastrophic errors aren't just common, they're prevalent and constant.

*Looks at the Sons of =][=DELETED=][=, grins, and walks away*

(Just to clarify I support the use of administrative -ups, although mostly because I find them funny)

[Brother Argent]

I love the idea of an administrative error causing a Chapters creation.  Although I am much more inclined to have them as part of a founding as someone would surely pick up on an error of that scale if a single Chapter was just created in the middle of no when.  I personally feel that a Founding isn't a single defining moment, however.  I imagine its a slow drawn out process with Chapters being created over a course of years.  So whilst thirteen Chapters could be created in a founding I don't think they are all just drafted at the same time.  Bureaucracy and resourcing required would be too huge a drain on such a fractured Imperium.  I like the idea of at the end of the official founding the High Lords are patting themselves on the back for a jb well done when the go, hang on... we have one Chapter left... Where did these guys come from?  And then they just throw them at some non-Astartes required threat and forget that they ever made the mistake.

[daryl]

Let me audition this out for ya'll, see how it strikes you.

 

Origin: During the Great Crusade the planet was discovered.  During this time of Imperium expansion and unity through out mankind the xenos infested planet was cleansed and a colony was started.  Two planets were slated for colonization as they were found to be within acceptable human requirements, Highgate and Cauldron.  The first shipment of settlers landed on Cauldron and began to start a Manufatorum set-up.  Basically to shorten supply lines to the fringe of the Segmintum.  Highgate was a world that even after the eradication of the xenos locals was harsh and inhospitable.  Originally this planet was going to be a mining planet.  As the first settlers started to delve into the ground strange things began to happen.  It was at this point that the Horus Heresy kicked up and the two planets were forgotten about.

 

Within the past few centuries maybe the last millennium another fleet arrived.  What they found were the two planets.  Highgate had regressed to a feral state, set up to be preblack powder technology but probably close.

 

Cauldron had similarly regressed but had locked away all of the tech they had manufactured prior to a seismic event that released an EMP field that lasted for generations.  The depths of their Manufactorum house obsolete tech.

 

When the fleet reported to Terra that they had found the worlds a lowly adept in the Administratum began to engage the ancient cognator engines to do fact checking.  This inadvertently triggers the creation of a new chapter.  

 

Well that's what I got so far so keep the input coming.  Thanks  

[Ecritter]

Let me audition this out for ya'll, see how it strikes you.

 

Origin: During the Great Crusade the planet was discovered.  During this time of Imperium expansion and unity through out mankind the xenos infested planet was cleansed and a colony was started.  Two planets were slated for colonization as they were found to be within acceptable human requirements, Highgate and Cauldron.  The first shipment of settlers landed on Cauldron and began to start a Manufatorum set-up.  Basically to shorten supply lines to the fringe of the Segmintum.  Highgate was a world that even after the eradication of the xenos locals was harsh and inhospitable.  Originally this planet was going to be a mining planet.  As the first settlers started to delve into the ground strange things began to happen.  It was at this point that the Horus Heresy kicked up and the two planets were forgotten about.

 

Within the past few centuries maybe the last millennium another fleet arrived.  What they found were the two planets.  Highgate had regressed to a feral state, set up to be preblack powder technology but probably close.

 

Cauldron had similarly regressed but had locked away all of the tech they had manufactured prior to a seismic event that released an EMP field that lasted for generations.  The depths of their Manufactorum house obsolete tech.

 

When the fleet reported to Terra that they had found the worlds a lowly adept in the Administratum began to engage the ancient cognator engines to do fact checking.  This inadvertently triggers the creation of a new chapter.  

 

Well that's what I got so far so keep the input coming.  Thanks  

Good up until this point, chapters just aren't created in this way.  

 

- High Lords declare a founding is needed

- AdMech organizes the founding

 

It really takes too much work to make a chapter for it to really happen by accident.

[Veteran Sergeant]

I actually like the idea of a clerical error causing the creation of a chapter, so long as you do it right. Reminds me of dystopic black comedies like the movie Brazil. I would still have them as part of a Founding though. Maybe have it so their Marines were created and their Chapter fleet constructed and issued, and then when they got to their new homeworld, it turns out that it's already been issued to a Chapter completed earlier in the Founding.  So they had to go with a second choice in the sector instead.  Fits with the "low tech" idea of your homeworld, since instead of getting a homeworld that had the resources and infrastructure to support a Chapter, they had to take another planet, and build their own stuff.

 

A "believable" error would be tied around a miscommunication from a Segmentum, or Sector command which overstated the predicted threat over the next few centuries. As such, the AdMech is tasked with creating two chapters worth of Marines for that area of space. However, the authorities in the target Sector only prepares for a single Chapter, and selects a homeworld and begins constructing the appropriate Chapter facilities for it. 

 

Remember, creating a chapter takes a long time. We're talking about manufacturing over 1,000 sets of armor. Creating and training around 1,000 Marines, and then training a small portion of that for specialized roles. The assumption is that a new chapter has a "training cadre" of experienced Marines from an existing chapter (most likely of the "parent" chapter, but possibly a related one in the case of Ultramarines gene seed since there are so many of them), but you still need ten companies worth of chaplains, apothecaries, pilots, etc.  You also need to either collect, or manufacture, a chapter's worth of vehicles, dropships, and most importantly, fleet vessels. And then you have to crew them too. It's a vast machine at work, with dozens, if not hundreds of agencies churning out men and material.

 

So there's lots of time and opportunity for signals to get crossed. In the real world, that would be lots of time for somebody's cross-checking to realize the error. But 40K is set in a vast amount of territory with only somewhat reliable interstellar communications, and a lot of bureaucratic mess. So I think your idea has value. 40K is a cartoon universe, so for sure there is room for some subtle humor like this.

 

 

The problem with having them outside of a Founding is that everyone involved with the process will be wondering why they are creating new Space Marines. An error inside of a Founding is easily explained as everyone in the process saying "Well, that's what was ordered" as opposed to "Why is this being ordered, and who ordered it?"

[daryl]

The idea is based on an actual real world scenario I experienced.  Certain times you can't request a replacement part for equipment.  Instead you have to order the next higher component.  Like ordering a spark plug in a truck, but getting an whole new engine with all the other stuff to install it.  A $5 fix just cost $14k to keep a truck running.  Amazingly you can keep doing this with several different components and wind up with 2 complete vehicles, and only one is on your inventory even though you have 2 now sitting in your garage. 

 

On another occasion I ordered some 6 leatherman multi-tools and received 600.  This is in an organization with many built in redundancy and oversights in place.  I figure on a scale with millions of worlds and constant warfare, it could probably happen, or already has happened.

[Ecritter]

See, you ordered a part and got more, or a larger part.  But you never accidently got a whole truck.  That's what we're saying.  Make the mistake smaller, and its more believeable.