Will we get a DA faq when new C:SM is released?

[Syphid]

++RANT AHEAD++

 

Those of you wanting ANYTHING from Codex: Space Marines, you may as well stop using the Dark Angels' codex and use C:Sm instead. We all spent many months fearing we'd be rolled into C:SM and now you are asking for just that? I am sorry but it grinds my gears. We got our own codex for a reason. We don't need anything from C:SM, period just as they don't need our unique units. What we need, as stated above, are fixes to issues within our codex and perhaps a Consecrators supplement with Chaplain Dreadnoughts and a Company Master that makes Company Veterans Troops (or scoring).

 

Again I am sorry if I come across as harsh but after spending several years having numbers of people tell me my favourite army doesn't deserve it's own codex it rather upsets me to see dark angel players asking for things from the vanilla codex.

 

What are you planning on doing with the graviton weapons you'll have to purchase with the new tac squad box?

[Syphid]

Now look at what we had on the Nephilim stats before the first FAQ... Missile lock... OMG GW stole the nephilim ability to give to vanilla... And i guess its missile were armourbane too... But they forgot to ammend the point value according to the nerfing...

Missile Lock actually is a rule in the BRB that lets you reroll scatter... But none of the Nephilim's weapons are blast so it was kind of useless. Definitely makes me wonder if something was left out of the design process though.

[Brother dean]

 

++RANT AHEAD++

 

Those of you wanting ANYTHING from Codex: Space Marines, you may as well stop using the Dark Angels' codex and use C:Sm instead. We all spent many months fearing we'd be rolled into C:SM and now you are asking for just that? I am sorry but it grinds my gears. We got our own codex for a reason. We don't need anything from C:SM, period just as they don't need our unique units. What we need, as stated above, are fixes to issues within our codex and perhaps a Consecrators supplement with Chaplain Dreadnoughts and a Company Master that makes Company Veterans Troops (or scoring).

 

Again I am sorry if I come across as harsh but after spending several years having numbers of people tell me my favourite army doesn't deserve it's own codex it rather upsets me to see dark angel players asking for things from the vanilla codex.

 

What are you planning on doing with the graviton weapons you'll have to purchase with the new tac squad box?

1.) I have to purchase the new tac squad?  Especially in the face of the DV tac squad?

2.) Trade with a codex curmudgon who doesnt want to buy the box for his spare meltas.

[Cpt_Reaper]

 

++RANT AHEAD++

 

Those of you wanting ANYTHING from Codex: Space Marines, you may as well stop using the Dark Angels' codex and use C:Sm instead. We all spent many months fearing we'd be rolled into C:SM and now you are asking for just that? I am sorry but it grinds my gears. We got our own codex for a reason. We don't need anything from C:SM, period just as they don't need our unique units. What we need, as stated above, are fixes to issues within our codex and perhaps a Consecrators supplement with Chaplain Dreadnoughts and a Company Master that makes Company Veterans Troops (or scoring).

 

Again I am sorry if I come across as harsh but after spending several years having numbers of people tell me my favourite army doesn't deserve it's own codex it rather upsets me to see dark angel players asking for things from the vanilla codex.

 

What are you planning on doing with the graviton weapons you'll have to purchase with the new tac squad box?

I think GW should have updated the DA-upgrade frame to include several plasma blasters. Reviving the graviton weapons wouldn't hurt so much if we had our own special gun, would it? I mean they seemed to really ride the "old tech means more plasma" with the Vengeance and Black Knights, why not give us the old plasma toys rather than new ones?

[Brother dean]

And again I rebut:

Stasis bombs

Stasis Grenades

Rad Grenades

Rift (D) cannon

S10 heavy maces

Cloaking devices

Plasma cannon Termies

the aformentioned Plasma talons and Plasma Storm Battery

 

Just because our special weapons got put on limited or inefficient models does not mean we didnt get our own special weapons.  (And PLasma Blasters have always been a UM thing anyway.)

[Syphid]

 

 

 

 

++RANT AHEAD++

 

Those of you wanting ANYTHING from Codex: Space Marines, you may as well stop using the Dark Angels' codex and use C:Sm instead. We all spent many months fearing we'd be rolled into C:SM and now you are asking for just that? I am sorry but it grinds my gears. We got our own codex for a reason. We don't need anything from C:SM, period just as they don't need our unique units. What we need, as stated above, are fixes to issues within our codex and perhaps a Consecrators supplement with Chaplain Dreadnoughts and a Company Master that makes Company Veterans Troops (or scoring).

 

Again I am sorry if I come across as harsh but after spending several years having numbers of people tell me my favourite army doesn't deserve it's own codex it rather upsets me to see dark angel players asking for things from the vanilla codex.

What are you planning on doing with the graviton weapons you'll have to purchase with the new tac squad box?

1.) I have to purchase the new tac squad? Especially in the face of the DV tac squad?

2.) Trade with a codex curmudgon who doesnt want to buy the box for his spare meltas.

Like many people I don't use Ebay and I'm not going to drop over $100 for a tactical squad with fewer options and a whole lot of models I don't want. The primary way I get my models (like most people in my community) is through FLGS orders from GW. I'm glad you never intend on buying another Tactical Squad and thus will not be in the position of buying weapons your "Tactical Squad" can not use.

 

Edit: Oh, and I collect a DA Successor, so those plastic DA Shoulderpads stuck on the DV models get in the way of my Angels of Absolution decals.

[Brother dean]

[Reasonable tone, not trying to be confrontational]

 

Do you end up using all the Chainswords Missile Launchers and Plasma pistols off of the squad upgrade sprue they have now?  I cant...  Ever wanted some battlefield debris for your bases?  Ever needed just one more Melta/Plasma for a combi conversion/biker/vet squad?

 

Yes, I do plan on buying a new squad (or two) to go with the 6 that I already have and to flesh out my 2nd dev squad to 10.  But I see no reason to complain that my box of cracker jack only has a tattoo (that my mom wont let me use) for a prize..  I bought it for the cracker jack anyway....

[Syphid]

[Reasonable tone, not trying to be confrontational]

 

Do you end up using all the Chainswords Missile Launchers and Plasma pistols off of the squad upgrade sprue they have now?  I cant...  Ever wanted some battlefield debris for your bases?  Ever needed just one more Melta/Plasma for a combi conversion/biker/vet squad?

 

Yes, I do plan on buying a new squad (or two) to go with the 6 that I already have and to flesh out my 2nd dev squad to 10.  But I see no reason to complain that my box of cracker jack only has a tattoo (that my mom wont let me use) for a prize..  I bought it for the cracker jack anyway....

 

I understand you aren't trying to be confrontational.  It's ok, it's pretty hard to hurt my feelings, haha!

 

 I always save my leftover chainswords, plasma pistols, etc because I never know when one day I might discover how much I love PP & CS Company Vets!  But the key difference is that those leftover bits that you are buying can still be used in your army.

 

With Grav weapons, you are buying bits that you simply can't use.  What other army has a unit whose box contains weapons that unit itself can not use, and can't be used by any other unit in the army?

 

The solution is for GW to take 30 min and write a FAQ adding Graviton Rifles, Pistols, and Combi-Gravs to our wargear list.

[Brother dean]

Well, it is the internet, you never can tell how things will be taken...

 

I still dont understand your argument.  I guarantee that there will be people at your local store who will trade you for some Graviton guns...  Whether it is the old guy like me who has a ton of minis already or just somebody looking for multiple special weapon choices, you will be able to unload them.  Wanting what everybody else has is just asking for us to be rolled into C:SM...   I like our quirky-ness and the inherent skill required to pull off our combos.  We've never had a "cookie cutter" book that takes no skill to use...  It's just that this edition it is because it is written well instead of written poorly.

 

Edit:  We do need a faq over several glaring issues, I just dont think graviton guns fall into that category, if they do then all the above DA only weapons and vehicles need to move to C:DA too.

[Syphid]

Well, it is the internet, you never can tell how things will be taken...

 

I still dont understand your argument.  I guarantee that there will be people at your local store who will trade you for some Graviton guns...  Whether it is the old guy like me who has a ton of minis already or just somebody looking for multiple special weapon choices, you will be able to unload them.  Wanting what everybody else has is just asking for us to be rolled into C:SM...   I like our quirky-ness and the inherent skill required to pull off our combos.  We've never had a "cookie cutter" book that takes no skill to use...  It's just that this edition it is because it is written well instead of written poorly.

 

Edit:  We do need a faq over several glaring issues, I just dont think graviton guns fall into that category, if they do then all the above DA only weapons and vehicles need to move to C:DA too.

 

 

Special wargear like Hand Flamers, Frost Axes, Terminator Plasma Cannon, etc are all sold separately from the vanilla Tactical/Assault/Devastator/Terminator Squads because the contents of those boxes are supposed to be 100% usable by any space marine player who buys them.  That's so you aren't forced to buy models from another army in order to play your own.

 

I don't want what everyone else has, so C:SM can keep Centurions, Land Speeder Storm, etc.  What I want is that our Tactical Squad be the same Tactical Squad that Games Workshop sells.  It's like if Games Workshop repackaged the vanilla Terminator Squad box to include plasma cannons, when only Deathwing Terminators can use them.  Everyone who bought Terminators for their non-Deathwing army would then be saddled with a weapon that they can't use and would have to find someone else to sell/give it to.

 

Actually, it's worse than that.  At least you can cut up a terminator plasma cannon and use it in a Tactical/Devastator/Sternguard squad!  You can't do that with a grav gun because no unit in our codex can use them!

 

Believe it or not, the only C:SM player in my local store is an 8 year old with maybe 11 models.  Local meta is all Guard, Chaos and Tau with the odd Necron or Ork.

[Master Avoghai]

And guys... You forgot something : what if grav gun was as useful as a nephilim's missile?

[captain Angel]

Lol, that got me looks at Starbucks, I laughed so hard.

We are the 1st, the sons of the lion, we have no need for centurions, our ravenwing will murder them, as they are sap.

we have no need for grav weapons, as we have plasma and invulnerable saves out the wazoo.

[SRSFACE]

I don't know why people are so hyped for graviton weapons. If they work like the Forgeworld Graviton weapons, they aren't anything too exceptionally special. They are only AP4 and wound as a toughness test.

[HsojVvad]

I don't know why people are so hyped for graviton weapons. If they work like the Forgeworld Graviton weapons, they aren't anything too exceptionally special. They are only AP4 and wound as a toughness test.

 

Suppose to wound on Armour test. So for Terminators and other 2+ save units, get wounded on 2+, unless the rumour has changed now. 

[Bryan Blaire]

It hasn't, but honestly, so what? The Grav Weapons have the Concussive special rule: that only helps against models with more than one wound. They wound against armor value, which means they wound a Marine on a 3+ instead of a 4+ for a bolter. They are AP2, so they go through armor just like a Plasma Gun. However, a Plasma Gun wounds a Marine on a 2+. And Grav Weapons are basically worse than Plasma against every other army except Marine variants until you get to Strength 7 (which is actually pretty rare, no Troop unit is that high, most every Troop is wounded on 2+ by Plasma Guns). Plasma Guns can move and still fire up to 24", or fire two shots at 12". Grav Rifles, if they move, can only fire 2 shots at 9". Yes, they can fire three shots at 18" if they don't move, but only if they remain still. However, with the Standard of Devastation, our bolters are Salvo weapons, and while less "quality" than the Grav Rifle, you get to pour at least 4 Salvo bolters out, rather than just a single Salvo Grav Rifle. Plus your squad can also fire it's Plasma Gun. Yes, Plasma has to contend with Get's Hot, however, that's a lot less deadly than it used to be, and with a Prescience Librarian, they are even safer.

 

Grav weaponry seems even more specialized for use than even Plasma or Melta weapons. So why do we need Grav weaponry again?

[SRSFACE]

I'm saying there is already established Grav weaponry, and it doesn't behave the way people are saying these rumors are to behave. I suppose they can always add new stuff to it, but if it's Graviton weaponry as already established by Forgeworld with these kits:

 

Siege Squad

Graviton Cannon

Built-In weapon to a Contemptor Dreadnought CCW

 

It's just a toughness test on a blast template that makes the ground afterwards difficult and dangerous terrain for the following turn. It also has haywire, which is it's best attribute, but there's nothing about it wounding based on the armor of the target. As I said, it's only AP4.

 

If it does indeed wound vs. armor save, it's kind of pointless, no? Plasma will be better outside of rolled 1s. Grav weaponry would ONLY be useful against marines if it indeed works that way, and right now the 6e meta-game is dominated by Tau and Eldar. (I don't count 5th Ed codices that are basically broken right now because people running Necron and Imperial Guard cheese are abusing outdated rules.)

[Bryan Blaire]

Grav weapons will very likely not behave like the FW rules. GW steals FW models, but I really don't know of any FW rules that have ever been translated into GW rules word-for-word. Besides, GW can always use the line "the tech has degraded, it doesn't work the same way any more."

 

Also, the meta-game/competitive environment really doesn't matter to GW, so that's not very likely to influence how they decide to make rules...

 

The specific rumors:

 

Grav weapons - Have the Concussive special rule, but are not Blast weapons.

Grav weapons wound the target based on their Armor Save. For example a terminator has a 2+ save so they would be wounded on a die roll of 2+. Against vehicles roll a die, 1-5 does nothing and on a 6 the vehicle is Immobilized and loses a Hull Point.

 

GRAV WEAPONS

Grav Pistol: Range 12" AP:2, Concussive

Grav Rifle: 18" salvo 2/3 AP:2, Concussive

Grav Cannon: 24" salvo 3/5 AP:2, Concussive

 

Grav Amp: Re-roll failed To-Wound and Armor Penetration rolls for Grav weapons.

 

Grav-Pistols and Grav-Rifles are available to all units that haves access to Pistol upgrades and Special Weapons, respectively.

Grav-Cannons are only available to Devastator Centurions.

No vehicles have access to Grav weapons.

[JeffJedi]

Thought I would throw this pic in I found elsewhere. Sternguard painted as Dark Angels look pretty cool and the box will have a ton of bits and weapons. When the Stern and Van boxes come out I will grab them and use the parts to make crazy expensive Company Vets.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/JeffJedi/abdf2d2dd42a2834ef50a6d55ab5c9ea17cebf85_zps92e7cb99.jpg

The "Wish we had that" threads are getting dull and repetitive guys. Let's think of ways to beat the codex instead. Edit to fix the pics

[Bryan Blaire]

JeffJedi, those pics appear to have been taken down.

[SRSFACE]

@Bryan Blaire: I know what the rumors ARE, I just don't know if I buy it just yet. There were a lot of rumors for what Eldar were getting that didn't pan out with regards to weaponry, so, I'm simply not jumping on the "OH MAN THEY GET THIS, I WANT IT" train.

 

The only thing I want is viable AA that isn't Forgeworld rules. Grav weapons aren't that regardless so whatever.

[Simiel]

I think Grav centurions are going to be a little short ranged to be effective..

Grav weapons on bikes are another thing entirely, we all know how effective 18" guns can be on a model which can move twelve.

Two Grav weapons per Space Marine Bike squad is going to add up, Riptides, Wraiths and Termies ( including Deathwing :( ) beware!

White Scars basically get Skilled Rider on all there Bike squads with a bonus to Hammer of Wrath, and Khan gives them all scout and the ability to take them as troops.

I can see White Scars being one of the better builds for C:SM and probably better than Ravenwing, sure they don't get the bolter banner but they get better AA for dealing with Helldrakes, and Black Knights are better than Grav equipped bikers but Black Knights cost 6pts more and rarely are a scoring unit.

[facmanpob]

White Scars and Ravenwing allied together may be the best of both worlds..... we'll see if Scars can take bikes as troops in an allied detachment. If they can, then a bike squad with grav guns to take care of MCs, as Simiel mentioned, is going to be a big boost to the usual Ravenwing goodness. If they can't, well, we may see some defectors....

 

I don't necessarily see Scars as being better than RW, just different.....

[Master Avoghai]

.

Actually, it's worse than that. At least you can cut up a terminator plasma cannon and use it in a Tactical/Devastator/Sternguard squad! You can't do that with a grav gun because no unit in our codex can use it.

Damn you're right...

 

I think we also need to play BA and SW units on our army because each time I buy a DP I got BA symbol I cannot use!

 

I WANT to be allowed to play those symbols because they ARE in the box I bought!

 

:P

[Brother dean]

.

Actually, it's worse than that. At least you can cut up a terminator plasma cannon and use it in a Tactical/Devastator/Sternguard squad! You can't do that with a grav gun because no unit in our codex can use it.

Damn you're right...

I think we also need to play BA and SW units on our army because each time I buy a DP I got BA symbol I cannot use!

I WANT to be allowed to play those symbols because they ARE in the box I bought!

Because they forced you to buy them in the box with your drop pod...

[Syphid]

.

Actually, it's worse than that. At least you can cut up a terminator plasma cannon and use it in a Tactical/Devastator/Sternguard squad! You can't do that with a grav gun because no unit in our codex can use it.

Damn you're right...

I think we also need to play BA and SW units on our army because each time I buy a DP I got BA symbol I cannot use!

I WANT to be allowed to play those symbols because they ARE in the box I bought!

You can if you really want to. Iconography doesn't change the rules and equipment of the model. Weapons do. The Drop Pod in your codex is the same as the one that you buy off the shelf. The chapter iconography has no bearing whatsoever on the rules and you can use them in any way that you like. It is not the same as Graviton weapons in a Tactical Squad. A more accurate comparison would be if the only C:SM could use Deathwind Launchers.