Who did you choose and why?

[HsojVvad]

I am new to Chaos. I bought a bunch of stuff but haven't touched it yet, since I haven't decided what I want to do, or who to choose. 

 

I have Tyranids, and Dark Angles. I finally want to start my Chaos, but as I said, not sure what to choose. So I thought maybe I can see why you guys and gals, choose and why.

 

Why did you choose? For the Fluff? For the game play? How do you play them (if you play and not just collect).

 

Hoping to get inspiration from you guys and gals. 

 

 

[jifel]

My "primary" army is Tyranids, but I've chosen Iron Warriors for two reasons:

1. The Fluff: Of the 9 traitor Legions, they are the most directly successful, no-nonsense, united Legion in attacking the Imperium. The cult Legions are splintered into small bands or are rarely seen. Word Bearers are tied up preaching and the Black Legion keep losing. Alpha may not even be traitors and NL just raid. Iron Warriors however, attacked Ultramar and stayed united. They have some great books and look sweet, and are just pure evil and still fighting the Long war. 

 

2. Playstyle: I play some hardcore cheesy Tyranids, I like having a "fluffy" army for fun games. You can ally in guard for a fluffy but competent shooty list. 

[Pariah Mk.231]

I've tried dabbling with Eldar and Orks in the past, but it became obvious I could never be happy with my army unless it was Chaos. Not just any old renegades mind you, for it to sit right with me, my adorable warp-mutated slaves to darkness had to be of, or previously of, one of the original traitor legions. I started with the biggest of the bads when I started back in 2nd, Black Legion. Straight forward to paint, no aesthetic clashes when including cult troops, Abaddon, etc.

 

But being just a lad, however, I was a little mercurial with my preferred army, and often repainted them to different legions. I tried Word Bearers and Night Lords, as well as a Nurgle-only force, but because I had no idea about stripping paint I practically destroyed all the detail on them and eventually had to just replace them. Other times I've decided to recycle bits from different models, steadily cutting down the number of models I had available. What can I say, I sucked at keeping things constant, must be a part of me that is a servent of Tzeentch. Eventually I started fresh and decided to make my own warband, the Morbid Progeny, to keep me from constantly swapping paint schemes. That was around the time of the Eye of Terror campaign and that codex heavily influenced my army. I had a lot of traitors and mutants in my army as I've always loved the little guys of Chaos, from the simple turncoats to the children of the gods (beastmen), the diehard mortal worshippers of darkness and the unfortunate mutants from the lowest pits of humanity. I loved them all. To me, they were what Chaos was all about, not just the marines and daemons, though I included them as well.

 

That lasted until 4th was released and my colour scheme had been stolen by the Red Corsairs. At first I decided to alter the scheme, but reconsidered. I was feeling the lure of the legions again, this time Iron Warriors. Today I have around 4k points of them and I'm happy enough with them to keep them around. They never quite felt right with all the mutants/beastmen and what-not, nor the heavy warp-influence and mix of cults, so I stuck to basic marines, chosen, terminators, bezerkers, raptors, havocs and vindicators. I did make an exception for obliterators though, since Iron Warriors do make heavy use of them. The lack of cultists/traitors/mutants in the codex, and only generic daemons, kept me on a narrow path with my Iron Warriors, so when the latest codex came out with all it's nifty new toys they just didn't seem to fit my view of Iron Warriors and I held off really adding anything new to the army.

 

Recently however I decided it was time to get back to the real grit of Chaos and embrace the new daemon engines and other fun things. With the look of the DV chosen, the new raptros and the plastic possessed, the need to kit-bash them into what I've always felt Chaos Marines should look like was overwhelming. The return of cultists and the ability to ally in daemons gave me what I needed to once more realise my Chaos dream.

Once more I looked at reviving the Morbid Progeny with their revised scheme and I began planning, but my mind wanted to go back further. I wanted not only to have all the meriad horrors of Chaos in a single force, but I wanted the reason they fought, the legacy of hatred. I wanted to go back to the beginning of my 40k experience. I wanted Black Legion. I had avoided going back to them for years because I had already done them, but the gods gave me a sign that the time was right when Malisteen posted the rumours of a Chaos supplement just over the horizen. Just as I was contemplating returning to my roots, my roots came looking for me.

 

Thus I came full-circle.  The first 750pt block is almost done, and I'm already drooling to add more. I've got my narly looking marines, my lowly cultists and my beastmen (which are just used as cultists). Not only can I include everything I ever wanted, I even have a new ambition. I've been having a gander at GuitaRasmus' Dark Mech blog and am looking to imitate a few of his creations. (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275772-dark-mechanicus-project-something-binary-this-way-comes/)

 

While Black Legion may give me the oppurtunity to explore my Chaos fantasies, the Iron Warriors will always speak to me on a more personnel level as many of the characteristics mirrow my own. Well, apart from laying siege to fortresses and putting razorwire everywhere, those aren't part of my standard operating procedure ... yet.

[Excessus]

Thousand Sons! Their tragic backstory and compelling traits was perfect for me! I loved (and still do) to learn new things, I studied a lot and loved it...so my fellow nerds the Thousand Sons, with their "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" fall from grace, was very cool in my eyes!

 

...little did I know that I had just chosen the faction within chaos that would constantly be picked on by the codex authors for all eternity! After I realized that they were nigh unplayable as a faction, I found my second little lovechild, the Alpha Legion! Focusing on teamwork and coordinated assaults, they quickly became my favorites back in the 90s, waaaay before any books came out emphasizing their sneakyness! (and they also, like Thousand Sons, had a blue colour scheme! :D )

 

 

...so to sum it up...I like blue! :P

[Jiron]

Have you considered Fallen Angels?

 

I have played World Eaters for a while with only squads of berzerkers in rhino, Khârn and single cult of terminators. It have honed my skill of getting into assault effectively. I like the World Eaters for being split into warbands that roam the galaxy and KILL MAIM BURN. I emphasize the cult of the warrior and I see gladiators (which are base of World Eaters culture) as the pinnacle of martial arts ever. But this was quite not satisfying for me from the gaming position because my friend plays Imerial Guard and too manny of our battles went the way that I have to cross the table to butcher him, while he is shooting me out of table in the process. It's not bad for the first time, nor for a second time but it gets boring for the third time.

 

 

Now I play DIY renegade chapter based vaguely on fantasy skaven. I have found it best for me because I am very fluffy player and all other factions I would like to play would be self-restricted too much. 

[HsojVvad]

Thanks guys, please keep them coming. 

 

I am having a bit of a problem. Maybe I don't have too much evil in me. Kill, Maim, Burn, is just not in me. Yet. So over whelmed in reading everything. What I like is loyalty. I thought I might like BL, but reading up on them, they just take from what ever and it seems (maybe I read it wrong) they are not very loyal and will kill you for doing something wrong or what ever reason. T me, that would be like my DA almost. Kill just to keep a secret no matter what. 

 

I love the idea of the False Emperor. Is their a Legion who is suppose to be doing good, but did not like the ways of the Emperor (I really think he is evil even though he is supposed to be the "good guy" in 40K) so turned on him, but do not do the Kill, Maim, Burn philosophy. Is there anyone like that?

[Artein]

Black Legion is loyal. Loyal to Abbadon, the Warmaster of Chaos.

 

Sure, we do our share of killing, maiming and burning but that's pretty much how we all roll this days.

[Jiron]

Are you sure you are looking for Chaos? You know, Chaos is evil. Not like "politically evil" like the emperor is. We worship the Dark Gods: Decadence, decay, manipulation and bloodlust. This is what we are (I mean Chaos marines, not us players). My suggestions are here:

 

Thousand Sons - they are loyal, became evil not entirely voluntarily

Alpha Legion - noone knows where their loyalty lies but it is often implying that these guys are on both sides

Iron Warriors - in their bitterness they have never stoped to wage the Long War

Black Legion - loyal to the Warmaster who wants to please the Gods and finish his fathers job

DIY - you want chaos guys to be like you would like them to be? Make your own renegades

 

Mostly the renegades decided to drop from Imperium to pursue their own goals independent on the Emperors will. On the other hand, not all the renegades are chaos.

 

So the resume of what I am trying to say is:

Q: Are Chaos Space Marines necessarily evil?

A: Yes!

 

Q: Is it possible to play non-chaos renegades according to C:CSM?

A: It is but why would you do such a thing?

[TheDevourer]

It sounds to me like you are looking for renegades a la Souldrinkers. Which would be very similar to their "loyalist" brethren. 

 

But being chaos makes you have to be evil as Jiron said :D. Well more or less, some of us might be following other agendas.

[Tenebris]

Thousand Sons, truth be told. They appeal to my scholary soul and I am always a great fan of everything magical regardless of fantasy setting. Ahriman is my most favorite character but due to my minmax nature I tent to have problems fielding subpar units. I have also a strong core of 60 Black Legion marines, nothing special but some gold trim and eye lenses but I confess that I am not a good painter thus I favor more easy schemes too. So to recap in fluff terms I love the Thousand Sons, in game terms I mostly play undivided army hence the Black Legion. How the things are turning out I think that my "glorious veterans of a ten thousand years of war" will be traded for a fully painted Wood Elf army for Warhammer Fantasy. 

 

I had faith in the Chaos Space Marines for long but each passing day this army has less appeal to me. I guess that the next time I will done a Power Armor will be with Sisters of Battle if they see light in the next hundred years. 

[disease]

Death Guard.  I fell in love with the story of Mortarion's horrific background and the history of the chapter (can be found now in HH Betrayal book or on lexicanum webpage). I like the fact that pre-heresy everyman was an army and would do things that other marines couldn't or wouldn't do  (survive the most hostile environments and use chemical weaponry for example). The whole betrayal at Isstvan where Mortarion attempts to kill all those loyal to the emperor in their ranks and the fact that Captain Garro escapes (and later helps to from the Inquisition/ Grey Knights).  The second betrayal by First Captain Typhon (now Typhus) as he bargains with chaos. The fact that Mortarion and the rest did not want to join Nurgle, but had to for their own survival. The fact that they now seek to spread Nurgle's rot as a way of proving to themselves that everyone eventually gives in to his torture (so they don't have to hate them selves for selling out)...  I LOVE IT ALL :D   

 

There's also some cool background in the Imperial Armour: Seige of Vraks books about one of the later subfactions led by necrosius after the split.

 

Bonus that they are also one of the more competitive chaos factions in the game (although as a whole chaos generally is not competitive), have good independent and forgeworld parts available, and the theme caters for novice and pro painters and modellers alike! 

 

I'm even thinking of doing a pre-heresy loyalist army of them so I can model the same characters descent into despair!

[40kChrista]

It was 3.5 Chaos Codex with the Word Bearer rules that had my curiosity, but Anthony Reynolds' Dark Apostle series got my attention.  

 

However, with latest version of the Chaos Codex, there really isn't any incentive for me to run a true Undivided legion/list anymore.  So my apostles have been made examples of, and my legionaries have painted their armor black... giving themselves to the Warmaster's bidding.  By going to Black Legion I can field whatever I want, and not have this little scratchy voice in the back of my head saying "This feels wrong..."

 

Anyway, I like more fluffy lists, but I won't throw a list entirely for the fluff.  Does that make sense?  

 

Painting speed is another reason to go Black Legion, not too much to do after priming.  Sure my gold and silver is 6-7 steps each with 3 steps of edge-lining on the black, but that is faster than base coating everything red first.

[Sception]

I originally started chaos during the 3.0 period, intending to do a themed army where every unit would be based on villains from the powerpuff girls cartoon. Anyway, I stuck with Black Legion in 3.5, to keep access to the widest amount of units for the project. The project became too effortful and I abandoned it, though. Of the original project, only Mojo remains, and even he's gone through some changes. I really miss my old conversions of Him and Mange, though.... oh, well.

 

Anyway, while I was still working on the project I started reading the fluff and following the stories of the Black Legion, to see who these forces were that I had thrown my lot in with, and eventually came to love them for their own sake, such that when I abandoned the PPG project, I stuck with the Black Legion and started a normal CSM army for them. This was around the time of the Eye of Terror campaign, which was absolutely amazing and imo basically the high point of the 40k games entire history, and did a lot to consolidate my love of Abaddon and his benighted warriors. My Daemon Prince, for a long time my best painted model (though now he's kind of wanting some updates to bring him up to current standards) hails from this era, and led many successful battles during the campaign, most of them against a crusading force of Black Templars that had been called in to reinforce the Cadian Gate.

 

I didn't like the 4th ed book, to the point that in mid 5th edition I abandoned the game and sold off or just gave away most of my models (this is when I lost track of Mange and Him - along with my land raider, my armorcast Reaver, my metal daemonettes and seekers and bloodletters, my bloodthirster, several dozen assorted CSMs including original project marines in their old prison-suit orange color scheme, cult units and characters of each alignment, predators, defilers, rhinos and assorted other tanks, including a ridiculous and poorly converted homebrew vehicle from the old vehicle design rules, converted drop pod counts-as-dreadclaws, and a lot more that I can't even remember). But I had a lot of stuff, and around the time of 6th edition's release, I happened across some old figure cases while cleaning out a closet, including Mojo, my Daemon Prince (thankfully I hadn't found him when I was selling models off, though I sometimes wish he had been lost and Him had stayed behind), my terminators, and a bunch of marines - some (poorly) painted as black legion, and some assembled but never painted at all.

 

With CSMs in the 6e starter box, it seemed like a sign, so I started re-organizing some models and revamping my paint scheme. Progress has been slow, and is chronicled in the thread linked in my signature.

[Wade Garrett]

 

 

But being chaos makes you have to be evil as Jiron said :D.

"Evil? I shall tell you of the nature of evil. Evil is a being so blinded by its own self aggrandizement that it would damn an entire species through ignorance rather than bow to a greater power. Evil nests in the heart of those forging an empire on deceit and a building a church around a corpse, condemning billions to eternal suffering when they could ascend to glory as favored sons and daughters of the Gods if they but embraced the truth. It is WE who are the righteous! WE who are justified! WE who are the true saviors of mankind! GLORY TO THE TRUE GODS, AND TO LORGAR AURELIAN THEIR FAVORED PROPHET! Bearers of the Word...let us show them the truth."

[Excessus]

Chaos isn't evil...we are just misunderstood! Rebels against a fascist empire! :D

[Pariah Mk.231]

... and not have this little scratchy voice in the back of my head saying "This feels wrong..."

 

That's the same voice that was in my head when the new kits came out. They looked awesome, but were completely at odds with the style of my Iron Warriors. Even the plastic Chosen I'm using as champions don't quite look right, with the exception of the one leading my bezerkers, so I'll probably just make some new ones. The forgefiend and helbrutes look so out of place I think I'll just repaint them as Black Legion and pick up a decimator as a counts-as fiend. Or even just use it as an actual decimator with them being '40k Approved' and all.

 

I want to add a helldrake to my Iron Warriors too, but I'll probably start from a nephilum base and convert it up. Hopefully that will make the voice shut up for awhile. I suppose the real benefit of building two Chaos armies seperately is that you get to satisfy different visions at the same time. If you really want a certain unit but it doesn't fit in your vision of one army, it should work in the other. And should you have the chance to play an Apocalypse game, you can just combine them. Or if one of your armies is Black Legion, word has it that with the supplment you can ally your Black Legion lads with whatever your other Chaos army is and have the best of both worlds.

 

I'll happily run my Iron Warriors as primary and my Black Legion as allies.

[Pariah Mk.231]

Chaos isn't evil...we are just misunderstood! Rebels against a fascist empire!

The Imperium isn't fascist, it's totalitarian, which is closer to what the Soviet Union was, rather than what Italy/Spain/Greece were circa WW2. Oddly enough, the Tau, who everyone seems to view as space-communists, are actually closer to being true fascists than anyone else in the 40k universe.

[Iron_Within]

I chose Iron Warriors when I was 13 way back when the 2nd Edition Codex Chaos came out. Back then the center pages of of John Blanches artwork inspired me. They were painted up to a terrible standard and various daft configurations but I like them, they were always the ones I went back to whenever I dabbled with other armies, IG, Space Marines and Eldar, but the call of Chaos always dragged me back.

 

Then WD in it's heyday released the Index Astartes, I waited for ages for the Iron Warriors, I loved the fluff and had read plenty of novels (even knowing that back then they were puerile even by GW standard). Iron Warriors came out. The battlefields of the Somme, Verdun all those things in youth that I visited were very strongly evoked.

 

On a dim battlefield, soaked in mud, gunfire and the screams of the dying, silhouettes appeared deep within the smoke haze, with sparks of ineffectual fire from them. The incessant 4 beat rumbles over the Artillery fire, an incessant scratching of something just beyond understanding because of the din. Then, like a revelation, the word "Iron" is heard, pitiful lice ridden PDF tremble, pulling the triggers of heavy stubbers all the harder rewarded with more sparks, and more silhouettes appearing. "Within", another word revealed and punctuated by the deep boom of bombardment. More artillery, striking with precision, still matching that incessant beat. "Without", bunkers go up in flames and debris ceasing the heavier weapons fire before it is fully brought to bear. Iron within Iron without, Iron within Iron without, Iron within Iron without. The beat stops, as the first smoke wreathed form reveals itself; a steel monster of myth, half forgotten, like a statue, a tale from a dark fable, the only brightness flashes of yellow chevrons that are smeared in gun oil. More Iron monsters reveal itself and as the third row stop from the haze the bombing stops like a pause in a orchestral piece awaiting the crescendo. With a roar of hatred born of the deepest betrayal, the Iron monsters from the depths of hell charge as one.

 

The Iron Warriors didn't betray the Emperor, they were betrayed themselves, I like the dark path they have taken and the revelations in Angel Exterminatus that revealed that they have every right to be bitter. I feel the Iron Warriors are Jon Voight on top of the train, they are damned but they are vindicated, and damn sure they are going to take all their hated enemies screaming to hell with them. They are the ones the prosecute the long war for the purest reason of all: hatred.

[minigun762]

Chaos isn't evil...we are just misunderstood! Rebels against a fascist empire!

The Imperium isn't fascist, it's totalitarian, which is closer to what the Soviet Union was, rather than what Italy/Spain/Greece were circa WW2. Oddly enough, the Tau, who everyone seems to view as space-communists, are actually closer to being true fascists than anyone else in the 40k universe.

Careful with the real world political discussions, it can become very nasty very quick, so let's redirect back to the failing of the Corpse Emperor's Imperium.

[Pariah Mk.231]

Chaos isn't evil...we are just misunderstood! Rebels against a fascist empire!

The Imperium isn't fascist, it's totalitarian, which is closer to what the Soviet Union was, rather than what Italy/Spain/Greece were circa WW2. Oddly enough, the Tau, who everyone seems to view as space-communists, are actually closer to being true fascists than anyone else in the 40k universe.

Careful with the real world political discussions, it can become very nasty very quick, so let's redirect back to the failing of the Corpse Emperor's Imperium.

I'll be good.

Those damn corpse-worshipping Imperial lapdogs! *shakes fist*

[Dammeron]

My Severed Angels are technically an Emperor's Children splinter, though they draw converts from all of the original legions and various different renegade warbands. They worship Slaanesh, whom they call "The Living Art," regarding the entity as a manifestation of all that is transcendent and beautiful in conscious being.

 

I conceived them as a sort of "bridge" between my two primary interests in the game: The Dark Eldar and Chaos Space Marines. My two forces: the haemonculi cabal of the Tattered Veil and my Severed Angels Chaos Space Marines are more than simply allies: the former consider themselves as shepherds and teachers of the lesser races in the universe, their purpose to enlighten as to the truth of transcendence through sensation and transgression in all things. The latter call them "The Fathers," since they are in a very real sense the progenitors of "The Living Art," and regard them with awe and affection, just as "The Fathers" themselves regard the Chaos Space Marines as aspiring and highly inspired children, requiring guidance so as to achieve their full potential.

 

I chose Slaanesh because the entity reflects many of my own personal philosophies regarding art, inspiration and personal transcendence. I also find its more extreme aspects tantalising on an abstract level. This has only been compounded by the manner in which the Emperor's Children have been represengted in the Horus Heresy novels, which paints them not as mindless sadists and sybarites, but as creatures of pure obsession who have made a genuine philosophy out of their appetites. Fulgrim in particular seems to have all parameters of personality blasted away by the revelations he experiences under Slaanesh's influence, becoming one with a kind of "music of the spheres" which allows him to perceive and operate in a condition beyond all constraint. This is extremely fascinating to me, and something that both my Haemonculi and Severed Angels reflect: they are not mindless or incoherent, but considered and reflective, especially feared by the Inquisition and Imperial authorities for their use of highly persuasive rhetoric and subversive techniques.

 

They tend to operate more in my games of Black Crusade than they do in 40K, as in that game system I can represent them as they are truly meant to be: as skilled surgeons, orators and sadists; artists and sculptors of flesh and thoughts alike.

[Tenebris]

The point with CSM is that they have some of the most fantastic background in the 40k universe. I love to play a Champion in the Black Crusade RPG, I love to play with Chaos in the DoW games yet of late I tend to dismiss the CSM as a TT army. I repeat, I am in a quite competitive gaming group and I usually tend to favor logical, well balanced and effective lists and I love to experiment, or tune in my army. Yet with the CSM such practice is not that rewarding as say with my Imperial Guard. You want to play Khorne for example, a thing that I love, you have to either roll will subpar CSM with MoK or Berzerkers, and the problem is that neither are good.

 

I have probably funneled most of my "warhammer" budget into the CSM with little return. I struggled from day one in tournaments and I lament most the lack of subtelty and viciousness that this army should have. A basic Tactical Squad in a Drop Pod is a way more vicious thing to play than say the same CSM tactical squad in a Rhino. 

 

Rant aside, I am a fluff nut, I cannot shake my habit to write extensive background, names and victory rolls for my army but the poor results and always this unshackable feeling of wrongness nagged me. Try as I may my lists are every time more streamlined and less and less varied. And this is a big problem in my book. I have a vast collection that allows me to play all the codex units yet I always return to the same spam. 

 

In terms of lore I repeat, I am a great Thousand Sons fan, be it pre or post Heresy and I always had a soft spot for this betrayed legion. When I first heard the news of the new codex I invested and traded into several TS squads, several Sorcerers and even a model of Ahriman and some Tzeentch daemons. Cometh the codex all went on Ebay...pronto. 

 

Now a year later I am in the same mood tackled with an underperforming and unimaginative army which would require at least five more supplements to be fun again. And fun is a big factor in my book. Now after I have sold the new Chaos Daemons that I had, book including, the GW played yet another of its cruel jokes and rumors are that the Cult Legions will have specific Daemons...which is not even remotely a good thing. Forcing us to rely more and more onto allies to stay effective, say in assault as Khorne.

 

So what will it be. Well so far I am looking for a fair trade for my CSM army, I will still keep my favorite Kill Team (Thousand Sons) which is the only thing that produced steady results and try to scrape on to gather a similar "Warhammer Budget" as I had until now. Until than I will keep playing CSM but the sad fate of my favorite legions really disheartened me.

[the jeske]

Played AL till 4th ed Gav dex. After that it  was BL I guess.

[Shifte]

Originally I chose the Red Corsairs because I think Huron Blackheart is an awesome character. I love the idea of the 'renegades' kicking ass and waging a New War against the Imperium, rather than the Long-lost War. I was planning to paint up and build an army without Huron in it, led by my own Astral Claws' Captain who was extremely loyal to the Tyrant above all else.

 

This was all going to plan until I read Angel Exterminatus. I found Perturabo to be an interesting character, I liked that the Iron Warriors Legion remained generally united in the modern setting and I loved the way they were portrayed in that book. Their reasons for joining the heresy were realistic and the way they ran simulations of battles in a 'lodge' like room was really cool, too. Besides that, I love that they have a rivalry with the Imperial Fists. I've never managed to face off against a Fists player, but I really want to because it just adds a layer of narrative to any game which involves them both. The day my Aspiring Champion "Dorn" gets to face off against an enraged Tactical Marine Sergeant will be awesome. To a lesser extent, this is the case with games against any first founding chapter.

 

As you can tell, the narrative is probably the most important part for me. If they ever continued the Red Corsairs storyline in some advancement of the 40k fluff, I'd no doubt do a 2nd Chaos Army.

[Pariah Mk.231]

... they ran simulations of battles in a 'lodge' like room ...

So they played wargames with toy soldiers? Iron Warriors: The 40k players of the 40k universe.