Sons supplement

[*Furyou Miko]

When he is Horkos he's a whiny prat. Can't really call himself a warrior at that point.

[Excessus]

When he is Horkos he's a whiny prat. Can't really call himself a warrior at that point.

Well, that's definitely true.

But on our main issue I believe we can just agree to disagree. I think we have just a narrow degree of difference between our views, and that is all right. :)

[*Furyou Miko]

I think I'm putting nature before choice, while you're putting more emphasis on what they choose to be rather than what they are.

[trevoroftzeentch]

Thousand sons codex ideas

 

-special rule- rubric mastermind

any to hit roll of a 6 from a squad with an aspiring sorceror with the rubric mastermind special rule can be allocated to a specific model in the targeted squad. Roll to wound as normal.

 

Options for heavy bolters with inferno bolts in a squad.

 

Access to all psychic disciplines

[Architect]

I don't understand the Ap3 heavy bolter thing.. Seems expensive. Everything else is fine. We will likely get new powers.

 

Just use your own powers or Divination/Telekinesis among friends. : ] They won't mind.

[Deneris]

I see nothing wrong with AP3 Heavy Bolters for TSons... especially seeing all the goodies Loyalists are getting in the new SM 'dex...

[Excessus]

I wish MoT was a ranged upgrade, like in DoW... :P

[*Furyou Miko]

Yeah... you mean where it turns bolters into anti-everything guns?

Mark of Tzeentch: Models equipped with this Mark gain the Gauss and Rending special rules with their ranged attacks.

[Excessus]

Well, since it's wishlisting anyway, why not go the full mile...

 

Thousand Sons are just souls, trapped in an armour.

 

A fluff text for certain unit reads: "Alas, neither does XXXX possess vital organs of any kind, which requires the attacker to practically hack it apart if he wishes to emerge victorious."

 

It is a unit with T4, W2, I4...a Flamer of Tzeentch. Remind you of another unit? No vital organs, needs to hack it apart to win?

 

My wish for the TS would be to have 2 wounds, and get rid of the 4++ save and switch it for the Daemon of Tzeentch rule instead. It would be fluffy in the way that they would be very hard to kill with small-arms fire, but low AP shots would be good against them. AP3 bolters are good, but not needed mostly. Switch that for rending bolters and they could theoretically be used against light vehicles as well.

 

The Sorceror needs to be able to get other schools of magic than Tzeentch. The best time I have had with my TS was after 6th ed was released but before our new codex. Aspiring Sorcerers had ML2, but could only buy one spell. They could however switch that for telepathy, so I ran TS MSU and buffed/debuffed the heck out of the games! Invisibility was awesome, as was Hallucination! :) Regular TS Sorcerers don't need access to divination (but Ahriman should have had that for sure!) but to make them be able to not get stuck on Tzeentch lore would be great! Also, the sorceror commands needs to be back, making them relentless until he dies!

 

 

Well, that's my thoughts at least, if we are wishlisting... :D

 

 

 

Will it ever be like this? Not a chance in he**! GW has made it clear that the "vision" they have for us is to be nigh unuseable, with strange unfluffy rules and a high cost! I don't especially believe that there will come a Thousand Sons supplement anytime soon, neither do I believe we will see any new options for our beloved squad... :(

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Just give aspiring sorcerers actual psychic powers (Half the time they might as well be using Splash) and givning rubrics access to heavy and special weapoms, and change inferno bolts tp "The AP of all weapons used by this unit is decreased by 2, so AP 5 becomes AP3."

[Tenebris]

Call me strange, evil or a fan but if there is a single army in the whole 40k franchise that I hate most, it is the Space Wolves. No matter how many games I play, when it comes down to it and I face the runts of Russ things get personal. So far much to my CSM credit I have yet to loose to a space puppy with my army and I relish the opportunity to unleash my inner sorcerer upon this blighted flea dogs once again if this supplement comes out and it is done in a proper way. 

 

Now we still speak of Tzeentch daemons and the Thousand Sons and they both need quite a hand to be effective. I would love to see some sort of Sorcerer Cabal, if for nothing else but to filed all ten of my Sorcerers (yes I cannot resist to make or buy Sorcerer miniatures) but what I would really love is to see some proper and wierd items that would make me feel like I am really playing an army with a strong magical component.

 

I am also eagerly waiting to hear more on the Rubic terminators or Inferno Bolts infantry, this would make the Tzeentch armies really shooty and when combined with some proper psychic might it could work nice. I have already planned out all, if the Daemons and CSM can be played in a single FOC than I expect to add in there a complete IG platoon with a proper Psyker Battle Squad to boot. It is no secret that my greatest 40k love are the Thousand Sons and overall I am a great fan of magic of all kind so I keep my hopes very high for this supplement. Perhaps too high for my own good, knowing GW. 

[Xenith]

A thought I had a day or so ago would be to remove Aspiring Sorcerers from TS units, and make them a HQ choice at 1-5 per slot, and as independent characters, which can then be assigned to units like the Eldar Spirit Seers.

 

Alternatively, remove "Aspiring Sorcerers" completely (As all thousand Sons are accomplished Sorcerers) and make regular sorcerers a 1-5 choice.

 

You can then also take TS units without the hefty sorcerer tax, which is nothing but good.

 

The sorcerers (due to increased ML) can now buff other units that they are not attached to.

 

Ahriman (and him alone) gets access to divination, making for something else that only he brings to the army, furher justifying his point cost.

[Jolemai]

I suppose we'll get rubric terminators?

[Tenebris]

Hmm let's see:

 

Thousand Sons terminators:

 

VotLW

Fearless

Aura of Dark Glory

Mark of Tzeentch

S&P

Inferno Bolts

Aspiring Sorcerer in TDA as unit leader

 

Do we really think that this would be any useful to the already expensive Thousand Sons. I think not. I would like to see a Sorcerer Cabal 1-3 Sorcerers and not Aspiring Sorcerers. Wargear like different scrolls that give you the access to a psychic discipline like Divination or a reroll on the power table. Overall with Tzeentch I expect things that boost the psychic phase either in damage dealing spells or in buffs/debuffs.

[EricBasser]

I'd be happy with Rubric Havocs. 4 Inferno Bolt Heavy Bolters. I have plenty of heavy bolter bits.

 

I think artefacts that unlock disciplines sound good. I can see one being like Last Memories.

 

Sorcerer Cabal would be fun.

 

It would be nice to get different Tzeentch psychic powers. Not sure that will happen though.

[Excessus]

I dream of the 2nd edition codex, where Thousand Sons had access to ccw:s, special and heavy weapons...as many as regular CSM had... :)

 

...and where Ahriman's black staff actually helped him cast powers...

[Tenebris]

I think that the question should be, what the Thousand Sons and Tzeentch daemons need to be a viable and competitive army? In this context though one must dismiss cost reductions (highly improbable) and major FOC shifts, which are also highly improbable to make it into a supplement. So what are we left with?

 

I think that the Thousand Sons need a steady supply of heavy weapon fire to support their otherwise slow movement and to boost their chances when fighting vehicles and hordes which are the bane of this army. The average Thousand Son is a MEQ killer, his role is to spam AP 3 and act as a unit that can live trough power weapons and other AP 3 weaponry. Now if we expand this the Tzeentch daemons are kitted to kill hordes with flamer templates and solid shooting, as well as hinder enemy vehicles with the Screamer unit. So in a certain way this two armies work well in concert yet there are several major drawbacks to this unholy alliance. 

 

The Tzeentch daemons and Thousand Sons are very expensive, thus more in the range of the "elite" armies which have a low model count and require boosts in terms of special rules or wargear to be effective. And here is the crux of the Tzeentchian armies. The Thousand Sons cannot boost their killing power with heavy weapons or special weapons, and one cannot expect to last long shooting only bolters, on the other side Tzeentch daemons can cast boost in the form of Divination yet they lack staying power so we are in for a mixed bag between the two.

 

What I expect of the supplement, or simply wish for. I expect the Thousand Sons sorcerers to be able to call upon a wider scope of powers via rerolls or items that give the access to a single psychic lore, for example Divination. Also I hope that some sort of upgrade will be given to the Havocs to make them Thousand Sons Havocs, with all the downsides of the basic Thousand Sons but with an access to the standard heavy weapons. I would also like to see a way to precisely deep strike Tzeentch daemons, perhaps using the Sorcerers as a living icon or to have a chance to roll once per game on the Warp table even as a CSM army. I would also like to see three staves, one with offensive stats and powers, one defensive and one support. Not killing weapon but staves that allow a Sorcerer or a Herald to become a very focused character with a clear use for his psychic powers. In the end I would welcome even the Thousand Sons terminators yet they would have to be properly priced and not in the exorbitant range of the Black Legion ones. The main advantage of our terminators is their price, hence it should stay in this way even with the supplements. Than by all means I want a daemonic item that will allow me to turn an enemy model reliably into a Spawn once per game. 

 

To recap, Tzeentch is all about control and magic and its armies should feel like that. I want a strong "magic" phase for my Tzeentchian armies and I want to play with a ton of tricks that give me the control over the board. The Tzeentch rolls in the book Crusade of Fire are a great way to integrate this, with a fluffy and balanced feel to them so it is not impossible to achieve that. I see the Tzeentch armies like the Blue or Water decks in the Magic the Gathering card game, control, spells and tactics rather than brute force.

[*Furyou Miko]

Well, I want to be able to buy any Character with the MoT a mastery level, so... :p