Scars Episode XI Updated 16/10 (Spoilers)

[Entei]

Arvida was the sergeant with precognitive sight who ran around killing World Eaters. Kalliston was the captain who got beaten to death by Khârn after offering to remove the nails without Khârn dying.

[Emperor's Furor]

On the issue of when Khârn was on prospero, I think either way it could work, purely down to how warp travel works. Think about it, the Alpha Legion were already scoping out the White Scars inThe Serpent Beneath which in turns means the Tenebrae station was up and running stopping the white Scars receiving information for sometime, until Omegon takes it out which then prompts the Alpha Legion to investigate the White Scars but they were also sorting out the Space Wolves which had already destroyed Prospero.

 

Khârn isn't angry and out of control until after Betrayer, so that would put the Khârn whose on Prospero after what happened in Betrayer, and if the Alpha Legion are attacking the remains of the Space Wolves when the White Scars decide to ignore them and go to Prospero then it's possible the moment with Khârn and the Thousand Son survivor may be happening at the same time that Khârn shows up IF Betrayer was happening simultaneously with the sacking of Prospero, Perhaps Khârn was on Prospero looking for skulls to build Angrons throne?

[Conn Eremon]

I liked the other story where it says that even to the 41st Millennium, the people of a certain area of Terra still refer to the number 16 as "counting the Wolf."

 

That was how hardcore the Luna Wolves were. Even though they betrayed the Imperium and were erased from history (not quite as well as the first two, but hey), ten thousand years later a single community still remembers what they did not during the Heresy, but in the last moments of the Unification. That's some terrifying levels of impression on a collective psyche.

[Wade Garrett]

 

Khârn isn't angry and out of control until after Betrayer.....

 

Eh, I think all we saw on Prospero was Khârn having one of his little Butcher's Nail moments (See also Isstvan III, Nuceria) and a Thousand Son blathering about how Khârn has LIKE TOTALLY LOST IT MAN! LOOK AT HIS EYES! THEY'RE CRAZY PERSON EYES!  Because the warlocks of Magnus just can't handle how REAL the sons of Angron are.

 

I also think it's pretty ironic for a Thousand Son to be waxing eloquent about how someone else was unable to master their own powers (Khârn's endless supply of rage) and all that was good in them was completely consumed by it.

[Emperor's Furor]

 

 

Khârn isn't angry and out of control until after Betrayer.....

 

Eh, I think all we saw on Prospero was Khârn having one of his little Butcher's Nail moments (See also Isstvan III, Nuceria) and a Thousand Son blathering about how Khârn has LIKE TOTALLY LOST IT MAN! LOOK AT HIS EYES! THEY'RE CRAZY PERSON EYES!  Because the warlocks of Magnus just can't handle how REAL the sons of Angron are.

 

I also think it's pretty ironic for a Thousand Son to be waxing eloquent about how someone else was unable to master their own powers (Khârn's endless supply of rage) and all that was good in them was completely consumed by it.

Thats kind of what I meant though, in Betrayer Khârn still had a lot of normal moments during periods of calm, I mean the last thing we see him do is calmly decide to rip the face off Erebus, but in the short story with the Thousand Sons, he's different, he's butcher mail mad while only speaking to the guy, to me that means it has to be after Betrayer, as before hand he was to calm a lot of the time and only went bat:cuss crazy during fighting.

 

If it's after Betrayer, then the time line COULD allow him to come into contact with the White Scars, perhaps that's where they are holding the Thousand Son, in the caves. Maybe the World Eaters are not the only ones in the caves, perhaps Mortarion decided to come a long to to make sure the psykers he hated were properly dispensed with since during this lull we have no idea what the Death Guard are doing, apart from Typhon fighting those Iron Hands when Lion El Johnson shows up, but Mortarion isn't there.

 

Maybe the Khan stumbles upon these guys and Yesugei shows up eventually and it all gets out of Hand and Mortarion decides Khan's loyalties for him by maybe killing Yesugei or something prompting him to stay loyal. I mean that would be cool, if a little far fetched, I think time wise it could occur, not saying it's going to, but I'd really like it if Mortarion did show up, especially after the hint from the previous episode.

[Wade Garrett]

He's Butcher Nail mad while speaking to a powerful psyker. And we know from Betrayer that just being around one of those gets the happy implants saying "You should kill everything. Everything. Right now."

[Entei]

 

 

 

Khârn isn't angry and out of control until after Betrayer.....

 

Eh, I think all we saw on Prospero was Khârn having one of his little Butcher's Nail moments (See also Isstvan III, Nuceria) and a Thousand Son blathering about how Khârn has LIKE TOTALLY LOST IT MAN! LOOK AT HIS EYES! THEY'RE CRAZY PERSON EYES!  Because the warlocks of Magnus just can't handle how REAL the sons of Angron are.

 

I also think it's pretty ironic for a Thousand Son to be waxing eloquent about how someone else was unable to master their own powers (Khârn's endless supply of rage) and all that was good in them was completely consumed by it.

Thats kind of what I meant though, in Betrayer Khârn still had a lot of normal moments during periods of calm, I mean the last thing we see him do is calmly decide to rip the face off Erebus, but in the short story with the Thousand Sons, he's different, he's butcher mail mad while only speaking to the guy, to me that means it has to be after Betrayer, as before hand he was to calm a lot of the time and only went bat:cuss crazy during fighting.

 

If it's after Betrayer, then the time line COULD allow him to come into contact with the White Scars, perhaps that's where they are holding the Thousand Son, in the caves. Maybe the World Eaters are not the only ones in the caves, perhaps Mortarion decided to come a long to to make sure the psykers he hated were properly dispensed with since during this lull we have no idea what the Death Guard are doing, apart from Typhon fighting those Iron Hands when Lion El Johnson shows up, but Mortarion isn't there.

 

Maybe the Khan stumbles upon these guys and Yesugei shows up eventually and it all gets out of Hand and Mortarion decides Khan's loyalties for him by maybe killing Yesugei or something prompting him to stay loyal. I mean that would be cool, if a little far fetched, I think time wise it could occur, not saying it's going to, but I'd really like it if Mortarion did show up, especially after the hint from the previous episode.

Khârn didn't rip the face off Erebus, that was Horus. He did mutilate Erebus though. If that was what you meant.

 

In Rebirth it seems like Khârn makes the deliberate choice to give in to the nails when offered to have them removed with the devices that exist on Prospero. The POV is Kallistons' though. Khârn is described as very aggressive, barely held in check, and drooling.

"I gave you the choice, Khârn. When the murder and madness are over, you will have the leisure to reflect on that. You could have turned back."

But the date in which Rebirth takes place(is that correct english? :S) might have been retconned, since Khârn seems to have become way Khorny pretty damn fast. 

 

About the Death Guard though, it very much seems like the flashback was there to hint at a coming confrontation between Mortarion and Jaghatai. Would be an excellent opportunity to flesh them out, since we haven't seen much of either yet.

[Emperor's Furor]

Yeah I was just generally stating he gave Erebus a whooping, he was close to ripping his face off with Gorechild tho.

 

 

Also, didn't Erebus state it was Argel Tal who would be the one to hold Khârn back from Khorne and that was why he had to die? Kind of seems that in a way Argel Tals death did deliver Khârn to Khorne but then potentially also caused him to turn on his own legion, perhaps Erebus foresaw this as well. The Thousand Son trying to get him to turn back was a choice but it was never going to be anyone other than Argel Tal who stops him.

[Tyrannicide]

 ...since Khârn seems to have become way Khorny pretty damn fast. 

 

Haha, I love it.

 

 

Do I make your Khorney baby? DO I!?

[Conn Eremon]

Come on, man. You're better than that. That joke was too Khorney.

[Greyall]

The Primordial Anihilator theory is sound, it would make more sense than Magnus and pretty much slap evidence in the Khan's face.

 

@WoT: Is there any description of the Keshir's looks and armour mark/decoration?

 

PS: Also, a suggestion. Would it be too bad if we just made do with the spoiler tags and put a warning in the title? It's what the thread is here for, anyway.

[Cerbero666]

IMO Khârn's chronology is:

 

After Desh'ea: Enter Angron, they found their Primarch, he's not what they thought it would be.

 

Galaxy in Flames, Istvaan III: After some time with the nails Khârn is "possessed" by them, to the point he doesn't know that he had been babbling Khorne stuff. 

 

Betrayer, Nuceria: Khârn is lost to the nails while his Primarch is turned into a roaring Khorne muppet. Argel Tal (the only one who could supposedly keep his sanity in line) dies. Khârn's feeling about all of that? He wants to kill Erebus, and faces Lorgar about what happened with his Primarch. He's uncomfortable with the situation, he still has some honor and the legion is turning to :cuss around him. He can't now try to convince himself they are doing it because they have to, but because his legion is corrupt, as Lhorke saw.

 

(This is the moment when the Khan reach Prospero IMO)

 

Rebirth, Prospero: Khârn comes to Propsero to find some way of heal himself and maybe his legion too. But is taken almost completly by the nails, he's closer to 40k Khârn than the one we saw in Betrayer. Kalliston (not Arvida, thanks Entei) offered him a way to heal his mind but either way: He couldn't understand the proposal because of the nails OR deep inside he wanted to be lost in madness because he knew that all he believed in was turned to ashes. His primarch a daemon, his closer friend dead, the nails drilling his brain, and the legion corrupt and without purpose. But Kalliston didn't allow him to be lost in insanity, so he fixed that part in his mind where he understand what was happening around him, wich causes even more bitterness to him. 

 

(But could be this moment too)

 

Terra: He's an angry creature, seeking death to relieve himself from the curse of knowing the truth. He dies, but Khorne brings him back just because he's so funny.

 

Skallathrax: Khârn is now completly "insane". He knows that he can't die to free himself from his memories and his realization of the things that have brought him to this. He sees what his legion, the one thing he gave his life and his beliefs to, has become. He is so furious that he wants to destroy the last gap of his past, the legion itself. So he burns every single World Eater at sight, giving himself to Khorne if He allows him to kill them all. And so he started to collect the skulls of every single World Eater who could put the legion together in the coming years (as seen in Chosen of Khorne). 

 

So the Heresy novels until now has described a slow descend into the madness for Khârn. Even when there are loose ends between the novels and short stories when he appears it could be put together and make sense in the global scale of the series. If the next one who writes Khârn (maybe on Terra) mentions the Prospero part it could connect almost perfectly. We could see an internal monologue of Khârn's thoughts, just like in Chosen of Khôrne, and his appareance between furious killer and soft measure warrior who needs huge amounts of effort to keep himself of kill everyone around. 

[Emperor's Furor]

The Primordial Anihilator theory is sound, it would make more sense than Magnus and pretty much slap evidence in the Khan's face.

 

@WoT: Is there any description of the Keshir's looks and armour mark/decoration?

 

PS: Also, a suggestion. Would it be too bad if we just made do with the spoiler tags and put a warning in the title? It's what the thread is here for, anyway.

It says they drew flamers, disruptor-shrouded blades and combi bolters after they teleported to the surface of prospero.

[Greyall]

Disruptor-shrouded blades? Is that the conventional field for power-weapons?

[Emperor's Furor]

Yeah I believe so.

[Greyall]

Should be a cool unit to convert.

 

I can see the Khan becoming super pissed-off at Magnus if he finds out just how much the sorceror screwed it, especially for every psyker Marine.

[Emperor's Furor]

They may come out as a unique Terminator unit, maybe with curved sabres/scimitars, although the idea of White Scars making consistant use of Terminators feels pretty weird to me.

[Greyall]

Can't get any 'lightning-faster' (literally) than teleporting into a bunch of enemies, mate.

[lilMAC25]

Guys, just a reminder. The Razing of Prospero happened just after Davin in the timeline. So there is time between the Razing an Betrayer.

 

 

Checking the white boards.....  Checking the white boards....

 

 

 

 

 

It seems you are correct sir.

 

 

 

 

;-D

[Entei]

IMO Khârn's chronology is:

 

After Desh'ea: Enter Angron, they found their Primarch, he's not what they thought it would be.

 

Galaxy in Flames, Istvaan III: After some time with the nails Khârn is "possessed" by them, to the point he doesn't know that he had been babbling Khorne stuff. 

 

Betrayer, Nuceria: Khârn is lost to the nails while his Primarch is turned into a roaring Khorne muppet. Argel Tal (the only one who could supposedly keep his sanity in line) dies. Khârn's feeling about all of that? He wants to kill Erebus, and faces Lorgar about what happened with his Primarch. He's uncomfortable with the situation, he still has some honor and the legion is turning to :cuss around him. He can't now try to convince himself they are doing it because they have to, but because his legion is corrupt, as Lhorke saw.

 

(This is the moment when the Khan reach Prospero IMO)

 

Rebirth, Prospero: Khârn comes to Propsero to find some way of heal himself and maybe his legion too. But is taken almost completly by the nails, he's closer to 40k Khârn than the one we saw in Betrayer. Kalliston (not Arvida, thanks Entei) offered him a way to heal his mind but either way: He couldn't understand the proposal because of the nails OR deep inside he wanted to be lost in madness because he knew that all he believed in was turned to ashes. His primarch a daemon, his closer friend dead, the nails drilling his brain, and the legion corrupt and without purpose. But Kalliston didn't allow him to be lost in insanity, so he fixed that part in his mind where he understand what was happening around him, wich causes even more bitterness to him. 

 

(But could be this moment too)

 

Terra: He's an angry creature, seeking death to relieve himself from the curse of knowing the truth. He dies, but Khorne brings him back just because he's so funny.

 

Skallathrax: Khârn is now completly "insane". He knows that he can't die to free himself from his memories and his realization of the things that have brought him to this. He sees what his legion, the one thing he gave his life and his beliefs to, has become. He is so furious that he wants to destroy the last gap of his past, the legion itself. So he burns every single World Eater at sight, giving himself to Khorne if He allows him to kill them all. And so he started to collect the skulls of every single World Eater who could put the legion together in the coming years (as seen in Chosen of Khorne). 

 

So the Heresy novels until now has described a slow descend into the madness for Khârn. Even when there are loose ends between the novels and short stories when he appears it could be put together and make sense in the global scale of the series. If the next one who writes Khârn (maybe on Terra) mentions the Prospero part it could connect almost perfectly. We could see an internal monologue of Khârn's thoughts, just like in Chosen of Khôrne, and his appareance between furious killer and soft measure warrior who needs huge amounts of effort to keep himself of kill everyone around. 

A very good theory, but I'd expect something more to happen to Khârn between Nuceria and Prospero. We'll have to wait and see I guess. 

 

Btw, Rebirth takes place 6 months after the razing of Prospero.

[Emperor's Furor]

There's a lot of missing time then between the razing and Istvaan V then considering the White Scars only just received a message for help from the Space Wolves for help, but Istvaan V had already happened since Yesugei encountered survivors on his way to Chondax and the Alpha Legions were already monitoring the White Scars, had the Tenebrae station set up and had started attacking the Space Wolves. I thought the sacking of prospero occured at the same time as Istvaan V, especially when you consider Leman Russ's statement about how he should of been with his brothers instead of being sent to Prospero.

[DuskRaider]

Yeah, the destruction of Prospero happens AFTER Isstvan III, but before Garro comes with message of Horus' betrayal. So it's kind of sandwiched between Isstvan III & Isstvan V.

[Augustus]

Yeah, I think Leman's "I should have been at Istvaan with my brothers implies how he now knows how he was duped and he regrets that he destroyed the wrong enemy.

[DuskRaider]

I have to wonder why Russ didn't offer up the blade to Magnus as well, after learning he more or less destroyed another Loyal Legion. 

[Conn Eremon]

Ehh, by that point they were loyal in name only. They had reached the breaking point with their abilities and would have caused a huge amount of damage, whatever their intentions, if Russ and his pups hadn't become involved. Magnus' warning would have been only the beginning, and I'm sure the accidents would have grown in enormity.

 

So yeah, the Thousand Sons still believed themselves loyal, but they were as much a pawn of the Gods as the traitors were at that point.