Death Company with Bolters

[Sanguine Eternal]

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I have been playing around with DC lists the past little while and have been having a lot of fun with it.

If your DC are equipped with JP's, then they can re roll their charge distance anyways (if used in assault over movement phase).

The thing with running DC around on the field via jp's, is that they NEED a distraction from all the firepower.

Same thing with podding DC with bolters.  They need to be given a distraction, but it can work though. (insert 2 drop podding fragioso's turn 1 here)

Now, I use Astorath in my games when I run DC as well, so I can split them into separate units.  They serve different purposes for me but can still cause a lot of damage.  Are my bolter DC going to charge a unit with a 2+? probably not.  I'll save that for Astorath and 10 DC with re rolls.

I keep the DC with bolters basic, no ups, and drop them down within rapid fire range of anything I can kill a lot of.

[Rafen IX]

Can we even take the ceastus assault ram? It doesn't seem to list it as a BA forge world option?

[Memento Of Prospero]

After my last tournament, It's become clear to me that the only valid way to field Death Company in 6th is bolters with powerfist backup, even with jump packs. The difference inbetween 4 and 5 attacks on the charge is insignificant, in the sense that nothing survives the a charge when you have a chaplain or libby in the unit - so that extra attack is meaningless. Upgrading your shooting from a pistol to a bolter gives you far more presence on the battlefield - especially on the turn you arrive - and even more so in large units of DC with Libby rerolls. It is the difference in between wiping out one small scoring unit on one turn with shoot and charging something else the next and just having to clean up a crippled but still scoring unit and waste opportunities.

[Father Mapple]

10 DC with bolters within reasonable charging distance of enemy: the difference between Marine Equivalents 10 additional bolter shots from rapid fire, and 10 additional CCW attacks (no power weapons).

 

10 CC attacks, hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s, enemy saving on 3s = 1.44 unsaved wounds.

10 bolters shots, hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s, enemy saving on 3s = 1.09 unsaved wounds.

 

Full effect of the squad though, and why, as Wolf_Pack mentioned, that extra 0.35 wounds is meaningless?

 

40 CC attacks, hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s, enemy saving on 3s = 5.75

20 bolter shots, hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s, enemy saving on 3s = 2.18

 

That's almost 8 unsaved wounds against any marine squad because you swing at the same initiative as they do. They're leadership test would then be double 1s or they fail morale. This is also with no upgrades, no chaplain, and against marines - not against eldar or something where you're hitting on 3s, wounding on 2s, and the bolter shots are going through the armor entirely, like Orks, IG, Eldar of most types, Tyranids, etc. Anything non-loyalist marine you can sweeping advance too.

Rerolls on hit and wounds just makes it ridiculous. Even against Terminators.

 

40 CC attacks, hitting on 3s with rerolls, wounding on 3s with rerolls, enemy saving on 2s = 5.27 unsaved wounds

 

On the charge, without any shooting, you can kill a 5 man squad of 2+ saves. 10 more CCW attacks with rerolls will only net you 1.31 more unsaved wounds.

20 bolters shots, hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s, enemy saving on 2s =  1.12 unsaved wounds.

 

Why not get the slight difference in wounds, of 1.12 unsaved wounds by shooting 20 bolter shots rather than the statistically .56 wounds of pistols, removing a possible I4 Lightning claw terminator to swing against you?

 

Bolter Death Company are great!

[Zynk Kaladin]

After my last tournament, It's become clear to me that the only valid way to field Death Company in 6th is bolters with powerfist backup, even with jump packs. The difference inbetween 4 and 5 attacks on the charge is insignificant, in the sense that nothing survives the a charge when you have a chaplain or libby in the unit - so that extra attack is meaningless. Upgrading your shooting from a pistol to a bolter gives you far more presence on the battlefield - especially on the turn you arrive - and even more so in large units of DC with Libby rerolls. It is the difference in between wiping out one small scoring unit on one turn with shoot and charging something else the next and just having to clean up a crippled but still scoring unit and waste opportunities.

 

Be that as it may, in my opinion I find those extra attacks in close combat really add up as the game progresses.   It's a fact of my games that DC always take an unhealthy amount of damage, so the mixed, 50/50, weapons gives you a flexible option to choose close combat or range in the late game by positioning the models tactfully and taking off casualties where one wants it.  I think those extra 5 bolter shots are insignificant compared to the flexibility the mixed unit can bring.

 

Idk brother-dudes, I'm still unconvinced all bolter DC is the only way to go...

[knife&fork]

Why not get the slight difference in wounds, of 1.12 unsaved wounds by shooting 20 bolter shots rather than the statistically .56 wounds of pistols, removing a possible I4 Lightning claw terminator to swing against you?

 

Because the enemy will gladly counter charge you and a DC squad won't stay at full numbers the entire game. More attacks per model help in both cases. 

 

I've tried a number of different layouts but I always come back to 10 DC in a pod with a mix of bolters and pistols, with a fist and a melta pistol. Great general purpose disruption unit.

[Father Mapple]

I also always put a power fist in, myself. Lots of benefits to a "hidden" fist.

 did the math with whole units of one type or another to make it easier. 

 

But 20 shots on overwatch, 6s to hit, 4s to wound, 3s to save = .56 unsaved wounds

VS. 10 CCW from +1 weapon, 3s to hit, 4s to wound, 3s to save = 1.09

 

All the discussion above was as if the DCs got the charge. The numbers I used for close combat go down about 24% when wounding on 4s and losing furious charge. And bolters are effective outside of charge distance many times, letting a unit do more in more phases, as was mentioned.

[knife&fork]

Well, no one can say which exact configuration will serve you best. It will come down to deployment, meta and the rest of the list. 

 

What we can say is that bolters increases the threat range and take shooting damage from negligible to trivial.

 

BP on the other hand gives the unit more power on the charge, when getting charged and in prolonged combats. That extra attack is really noticeable when you start to dip below 5 DC marines.

[t4play]

1 full speed Rhino

9 DC   5 with BP and chain swords  and 4 with bolters (2 axe, 2 p swords)

1 Reclusiarch

2 full spd rhino's with 10 tac marines M / MM  10 tac marines M / MM

1 full spd rhino's with 9 assault marines,CS/BP, sg BP/PA, 1 priest BP/PA

3 baal pred

who in thier right mind is going to worry too much with the dc when two flame storm 1 assault cannon baal's are coming thier way fast after scouting ;-)

 1500 points   job done or fun trying

Flesh tearers

[Daddywarcrimes]

I remain a big fan of the 20 man squad of bolter armed Death Company.  Bury a chaplain in the mob, along with 2 or 3 power axes, walk into the middle of the board, and PROFIT!

 

For extra comedy, bring along a Librarian for Forwarning, Forboding, or Misfortune shenanigans.