Undivided in Escalation

[zyl-]

I just so happened to pay a visit to my local gaming hub at the right time to sign up for an escalation league that is starting this fall, the culmination of which will be a tournament at the end of November. As I have noticed, a lot of people really enjoy following a topic like this if it's active and well maintained by the creator. While I can't completely assure that I can live up to that standard, at the very least I can start and see how long I can keep it alive.

 

The reason why we are interested is because my group actually has more than just myself playing chaos, so I hope to be able to keep track of the standings of more than just my army build, though obviously, my build will be the centerpeice of the thread. A basic rundown of the rules. Forgeworld is allowed (sigh), allies allowed, and we start with 500 points, which increases by an unknown (rolled) number every week. Each week, players are paired off at random (see: rolled) for battles. Points are scored based on win/loss, painting, and play. I'm sure there will be extra points for certain tasks, which I'll have to find out later. Last league you could earn bonus for slaying the opponent's highest point unit fielded.

 

I have always maintained an undivided army, which isn't to say that I shy away from a theme now and then, but I refuse to compromise betterment of the army for (what I would consider) arbitrary reasoning. I will be running daemon allies as well (but for low points lists, allies are hard to run). Obviously I'll need an all comer's list, since I have random opponents, but once I figure out who and what is in the pool, I can cut out certain elements that will not be needed. My best guess is that there will be no necron, tyranid, or eldar present, however, there will be more than 1 chaos, a few tau, orks, sisters, and blood angels. So here's what I'm bringing out for round 1 @ 500

 

Lord, MoS

Cultists

Noise marines, blastmaster

Baledrake

Obliterator

 

I'm leaning heavy on the idea that they won't have anti air right off at 500, but that's what chaos does at 2000 anyhow. Off to war..

[Sception]

That's... kinda cruel for 500.  I hope your local player base tends towards the more cutthroat in general, or you won't be winning many friends with that!

 

Games, though, yeah.  Games you should win.  ;)

[Chaeron]

Haha, now that, is a list!

[Tenebris]

Nah we are Chaos Space Marines we ought to be cruel. Let the loyalist play fair and square, we have left the trappings of honor and morality at the gates of the Imperial Palace on Terra. The more cruel you can get the better. You play in character by doing so. 

[Iron_Within]

At 500 points, that list will bring butthurt in spades. The only concern is if everything save the Drake gets wiped and the cultists will need to just hide as they will go down quickly otherwise.

[the jeske]

Nothing to fix with in this list. It is ok.

[Chaeron]

Actually, looking at it, I can't get it under 500pts...

 

Chaos Lord with Mark of Slaanesh – 80pts

10 Noise Marines with Blastmaster – 210pts

Heldrake – 170pts

Obliterators  70 pts

 

Without the Cultists - as Blastmaster would require ten models? And we're already over.

 

Chaos Lord with Mark of Slaanesh – 80pts

Noise Marines – 95pts

Ten Cultists – 50pts

Heldrake – 170pts

Obliterators  70 pts

 

And then we still have 35pts to play with – but only five
Noise Marines and no added weaponry thus far.

 

[Sception]

Five noise marines with blastermaster.  Their weapon options were errata'd a while back.  From the same errata that gave the drake 360 degree firing arc.  The NM change is actually a big part of why they're thought highly of these days.  Check the current CSM faq.

[zyl-]

He is correct, it's a 5 man with blastmaster. As far as cut throat goes, I expected nothing less of my peers, so I am going to build to kill.. that said my first fight was a loss.. in a way. Rules strictly prohibit exceeding the points limit as it escalates by as much as 1 point, and as you'll see in the report, this guy broke that rule. I'm not going to raise cain about it, just a game. And I did pretty good all the same. It was actually the early end of the game that got me. Relic, dawn of war, him first.

 

His list was chaos.

Sorceror, mos, ML2, spell familiar

CSM, plasmagun

CSM, +4 marines, mos, ubergrit, power sword

rhino, havoc launcher

predator, hvy bolter sponsons

 

I literally can't get this list to be any less than 23 points over 500. And yes, every little thing came into play as he rerolled perils to cast estatic seizures.

 

Here's the "layout" pic. Blue is the drake.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u75/bloodlife72/IMG_0061a_zps9a8cec11.jpg

 

Turn 1 he rolled master of deception and infiltrated the plasma squad close to the obliterator, whom he failed to kill right off. I promptly plasma cannoned them, and moved the cultists his way. Noise marines took a hull point off the rhino and a casualty from the havoc launcher/ seizures/ shots out of the rhino.

 

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u75/bloodlife72/IMG_0063_zps646a2d21.jpg

 

Turn 2 he won first blood by once again shooting all out at the oblit. My turn, the drake opened his rhino up and the marines that came out found themselves in a world of AP3 ignore cover hurt thanks to a baleflamer and blastmaster. Cultists charged the smaller marine group and my lord won the challenge.

 

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u75/bloodlife72/IMG_0064_zps013e5eb3.jpg

 

The rest of the game played out more or less as seen here. He charged the sorc (warlord) into my noise marines and wrecked them with a power sword. The drake immobilized, yet failed to take out the predator, who kept the cultists pinned behind the terrain, and therefore off of the objective. He won with first blood and line breaker.

[the jeske]

23pts in 500pts range is huge . Even in 1500 its two special weapons .

[Chaeron]

Harsh on you, aye! So, agree comes in at 495pts?

[zyl-]

I actually took melta bombs on the lord to make it an even 500.

[zyl-]

Update.

 

Next week's games will be played at no more than 614 points, which means it's time to build a list again. My basic plan is to just beef up the chaos lord with a burning brand and add flamers, autoguns, and more cultists to the little group he's running with. I don't think it's necessary to scrap the current list and rethink it, as it proved itself last run and in subsequent test games. My big hang up here is that I'd like more scoring units, but it is still going to be difficult to get 3 on the table and bring the firepower I like to deal with larger threats. It is quite likely that next week I'll start from the ground up on the list, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone has some mind bending ideas for a 614 point list. Anything goes and I fight dirty.

 

I will probably test this list once or twice this week to see if a cheap marine squad won't do better than the cultists.

[daboarder]

I'd grab another blastmaster squad instead. then spend the 20 pts extra (25 if you drop the MB's) and see if you can either grab him a bike, or get a power weapon and a combi-something.

[the jeske]

I would play a for the lol list . 2x10 naked cultists 100pts . 1xDP 2 mastery lvls wings of slanesh 250pts . 1xDP of slanesh 2 mastery lvls dark mace wings 290. Total army cost 640. Totaly different then what you played two flying MC one an ultra killer another one just a regular killer .two psykers. two basic slany power + 2xbiomancy .  classic fire type build . slany DPs taken to A save points B troll fluff players

1. C not having points for mastery lvl 3 means we have a 50/50 ratio for psychic powers from our dex and the rulebook. in such a situation the slany primaris power is the best one . D no helldrakes makes the list casual . more trolling.

 

The list is also good because of how different it is from what you played last time. A lot of people in small point games will try to do shoty gunlines . Two FMC is just the thing to beat those. Ah and always reserv the cultists.

[zyl-]

I would play a for the lol list . 2x10 naked cultists 100pts . 1xDP 2 mastery lvls wings of slanesh 250pts . 1xDP of slanesh 2 mastery lvls dark mace wings 290. Total army cost 640. Totaly different then what you played two flying MC one an ultra killer another one just a regular killer .two psykers. two basic slany power + 2xbiomancy .  classic fire type build . slany DPs taken to A save points B troll fluff players

1. C not having points for mastery lvl 3 means we have a 50/50 ratio for psychic powers from our dex and the rulebook. in such a situation the slany primaris power is the best one . D no helldrakes makes the list casual . more trolling.

 

The list is also good because of how different it is from what you played last time. A lot of people in small point games will try to do shoty gunlines . Two FMC is just the thing to beat those. Ah and always reserv the cultists.

I love the way you think (as always) but that's 26 points over my limit. I could still easily build a list that looks like this just for super lulz. I can't imagine I'd want to take the mace at that point value, it seems like a massive waste when a prince in combat is pretty much going to be wrecking anything it touches. Also, the burning brand is probably the best psyker power we can take for a fly-by prince.. it's like a helldrake that can assault. Moving on, I'd rather princes of Tzeentch because I'm not playing for fluff at all, I'm playing for unpredictable crushing of opponents at arbitrary points values.

 

Also, as a note of intrest, I am able to field daemon allies (as per my sign up), which makes a list like this potentially even more viable with soul grinders and more princes to back it up. Plus, I am just itching to get to that happy point where I can deploy daemonettes. They are just so fast.

 

About reserving the cultists, do you mean like camp with them, or do you mean deploy in reserve so they have to move onto the board from my side? They don't have any rules that would make them able to guarentee getting mid field by the game's end, which could be extremely detrimental were I to play relic.

[nurglez]

Wow, those are some nasty 500 point lists right there...

 

Black mace is amazing on a daemon prince, due to how smash attack works. You halve your attacks down to 3, then add on anything else, so he can swing up to 10 str 10 attacks on the charge (rolling a 6 on the daemon weapon of course). Of course if you roll a 1 you would only get 3-4 str 10 attacks, but thats still nasty.

 

And the black mace helps inflict casualties on models outside of a challenge. You can charge a blob squad (great if you hit them with enfeeble), you kill the sergeant/commisar and then all models within 3 inches of you at the end of the combat phase take a toughness test or take a wound with no armour save. Well worth 45 points if you can spare it :D

[zyl-]

Rolling a 1 on the black mace doesn't allow for attacks.. you hurt yourself and are WS1 until further rolling.

[RolandTHTG]

Rolling a 1 on the black mace doesn't allow for attacks.. you hurt yourself and are WS1 until further rolling.

Read Deamon Weapon again. Gets the masssive headache, and no BONUS attacks, but nowhere does it say he doesn't get his base attacks. I think you are still remembering a bit of the 4th ed codex, which did nerf you for that entire turn.

[nurglez]

true, current rules are if you roll a 1, you are wounded unless you pass your invulnerable save, and dont get any extra attacks, and are ws1. Which does suck, but something that has the possibility of 5-9 str 10 attacks (or 6-10 on the charge) has to have a small downside. Remember, 6th is all about the theme

[the jeske]

I love the way you think (as always) but that's 26 points over my limit. I could still easily build a list that looks like this just for super lulz. I can't imagine I'd want to take the mace at that point value, it seems like a massive waste when a prince in combat is pretty much going to be wrecking anything it touches. Also, the burning brand is probably the best psyker power we can take for a fly-by prince.. it's like a helldrake that can assault. Moving on, I'd rather princes of Tzeentch because I'm not playing for fluff at all, I'm playing for unpredictable crushing of opponents at arbitrary points values.

 

Also, as a note of intrest, I am able to field daemon allies (as per my sign up), which makes a list like this potentially even more viable with soul grinders and more princes to back it up. Plus, I am just itching to get to that happy point where I can deploy daemonettes. They are just so fast.

 

About reserving the cultists, do you mean like camp with them, or do you mean deploy in reserve so they have to move onto the board from my side? They don't have any rules that would make them able to guarentee getting mid field by the game's end, which could be extremely detrimental were I to play relic.

That is what I get for thinking that the limit is 641.cut the 2 mastery lvls from the mace DP , that is 50pts. left over in to a flamer for cultists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

About reserving the cultists, do you mean like camp with them, or do you

mean deploy in reserve so they have to move onto the board from my

side?

This would have to be done build by build . But in general in under 750pts people are ready for lists that take minimal troops and maximize the stuff that kills other stuff hard[unless they happen to have troops that are killers like draigowings back in 6th]. This offten mean that some armies take cheap troops hunter. A land speeder with two hvy flamers . 3 bikers with 2 melta and a combi flamer etc. Per see it aint so bad for meq lists, but 2x10 cultists die realy fast. So it is better to not have them on the board on turn 1. Also having only 2 FMC on the board is good training on when to swoop and when not to swoop. When I said this list is a lol list , I miss spealed it . It is more a troll list that lets you train stuff for bigger games.

 

 

 

 

I can't imagine I'd want to take the mace at that point value, it seems

like a massive waste when a prince in combat is pretty much going to be

wrecking anything it touches

 your HQ DP will always get challanged . offten people will try to tar pit you . Mace does aoe dmg and doesn't care about challanges , it saves you 1 turn[2phases] of melee. Now at 1000+pts we could be arguing about rate of fire , how we want to kill someone on his own turn [or have hit and run] , but at less then 750 pts a wasted unit is a wasted unit . The low ap , relativily high strenght and aoe effect is is good for killing everything. Mulit wound deathstars, swarms , it works on everything. Think about it how low would you have to kill a unit o termagants or 30 orcs with your normal shoting list[not that shoting lists are bad or anything] .

[rezurik]

So I'm a friend of zyl, and we wound up both going to the league. (i don't play much, kinda a noob, play chaos because i use zyl's models, broke so don't have the cash to buy my own models...it's an expensive hobby >.< ) Anyway we both kinda took "lulzy" lists. He ran pretty much 100% armor, I ran something almost completely identical to what the gentleman above me suggested. It boiled down to...

 

HQ

Demon Prince - DoT, Wings, Power Armor, Black Mace

Demon Prince - DoS, Wings, Power Armor, Burning Brand

 

Troops

Cultists (base costs)

Cultists (+1 cultist! Woohoo!)

So the list hit 614 exactly. Zyl has the battle reports, but essentially, I played two games, first against Space Marines (i don't remember the type of SM exactly...) and second against Eldar. I wound up tying the first (won in tiebreaking points) and winning the second.

 

I don't think I horribly misplayed anything, although I really do think considering the flying bit, my saves sucked it up. Probably made it up on my attack rolls, which were...pretty good, admittably. First battle Black Mace consistently got 4+ attacks, Second battle brand wiped out an entire unit first turn then scattered a second next turn. So I will probably be hanging out here and taking an army next week, and helping keep zyl focused on DESTROYING ALL WITH CHAO*ahem*

 

I mean, having fun and updating this league posting of course.

[zyl-]

Well I see someone was excited to brag about the Jeske's list winning twice

We tested it half a dozen times, and the firm resolution was that the only way to possibly survive a quad gun ADL was to put armor on the princes. Also, the brand out preformed psyker powers without fail, so the alterations were made. Here's the 2 battle reports for that list. All games for today were dawn of war crusade.

Battle 1 was against a hard counter more or less. Dark Angles with a dakka banner in the command squad. This picture really shows what happened. Night fighting turn 1 kept the princes out of some bit of danger for the 2 plasma cannons and 2 las cannons on the field.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u75/bloodlife72/IMG_0068_zps2c39ce04.jpg

The princes blitzed the lines and 1 died. Since it was the brand prince, the black mace went in and tore everything up while the cultists just camped the objective. Somewhat uninteresting, honestly.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u75/bloodlife72/IMG_0076_zpsbaa7a6b9.jpg

Late game. First blood and slay the warlord wash. No line breaker. 1 objective each. The decider was points killed, and since the command squad with the dakka banner and librarian were eaten, the DA lost more points.

Battle 2 was against the new eldar. Here's the list.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u75/bloodlife72/IMG_0084_zpsa91165b9.jpg

Since it's [once again] dawn of war and crusade, we know the drill.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u75/bloodlife72/IMG_0078_zpsfc039a95.jpg

In short, the princes blitzed again, and the burning brand completely killed a squad turn 1. He shot and mostly missed. First blood.

Turn 2, the brand killed off another squad in entirety. Brand prince grounded and was charged by a wraithlord, to his dismay. The black mace prince attempted to charge the remaining troops, but a 1 on the black mace saw to his demise.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u75/bloodlife72/IMG_0081_zps8ac59568.jpg

Here's what was left after the princes were burned down. Bad news for the eldar: they can't run fast enough to get across the entire board and kill 20 cultists going to ground in cover. 1 squad broke, but since he had to leave his objectives to chase them down, he had only Slay the Warlord. The end of turn 6 was it.

[zyl-]

My list was a little different this week. The post above was the Jeske's suggestion as played by my friend (moral of the story, I will play your idea lists). I decided to armor blitz it.

 

sorc

cultists

marines: extra marine, ccw, power sword

hellbrute

hellbrute: plasma cannon

predator: heavy bolter sponsons

rhino: havoc

rhino: havoc

612 points

 

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u75/bloodlife72/IMG_0069_zps96dd8c9a.jpg

 

The poor guy brought Lucius the Eternal.

2 squads of marines

3 combi melta terminators

cultists

rhino

 

I just crushed him. The only kill he got was on my plasma brute because it got 2 hull points off from gets hot! I'm sorry B&C, but a full battle report can teach us nothing but this. Don't bring Lucius the Eternal.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u75/bloodlife72/IMG_0074_zpsbf8c18ee.jpg

OK, I lied. We can learn a little more from mistakes made. Putting all your eggs into a meq basket is just not very effective at a low points game, and it happened. They died in a fire.. a rhino fire to be exact. Oh, and a hail of fire from everything else. The terminators did deep strike (green X), but I charged them with a hellbrute, and that's rough. As for his objective campers in the building there, the predator was in range, which was enough to get rid of them.

 

We'll see yall next week for 735 (i think)

[Kythnos]

My list was a little different this week. The post above was the Jeske's suggestion as played by my friend (moral of the story, I will play your idea lists). I decided to armor blitz it.

 

sorc

cultists

marines: extra marine, ccw, power sword

hellbrute

hellbrute: plasma cannon

predator: heavy bolter sponsons

rhino: havoc

rhino: havoc

612 points

 

Without looking at my Codex, I'm pretty sure that Cultists don't unlock Rhinos. So you would've only been able to bring one Rhino to the field, I think. Or am I missing anything?

 

Anyway, congrats to both of you! I also like sharing my miniatures with friends to go to tournaments or events together :)