So... Ravenwing supplement.

[3DJutsu]

I've been thinking about what could possibly go into a Ravenwing supplement, aside from loads of awesome fluff, and came up with a few things. I'd like to hear other people's ideas as well.

 

HQ choices, surely Azrael and Sammael can't be the only ones that can command an Unkindness of Ravens, but it makes sense that a Company Master can't take a SMB as Sammael is the 2nd Company's Master.

 

So what about a CM equivalent and simply rename him to Master of the Hunt or something similar?

 

Ravenwing -tailored warlord traits would be nice, but most Dark Angel traits already fit.

 

Maybe some kind of twin-linking upgrade on the Vengeance speeder? I'd actually field one without needing a Librarian attached to its chassis.

 

Skilled Rider upgrades purchaseable for either HQ's or entire army. Tank Hunter / MC Hunter , etc purchaseable for squads (maybe as a bonus upgrade 'ala Cato Sicarius available through the Master of the Hunt)

 

A reason to fill my elite slots in a pure Ravenwing army. Maybe via tank/mc hunting squads?

 

Purchasable skyfire upgrades for my Typhoons.

 

Anyone else?

[JeffJedi]

I'd rather see a successor supplement. It would be generic so it could represent any of the Unforgiven. From the looks of things Ultramarines can ally with any chapter, even Ultramarine successors.

 

A generic Grand Master (can take Terminator Armor)

A generic 1st Company Master (can take Combi-Weapons and a mix of CCWs. Sword and shield. Combi-melta and lightning claw, etc.)

A generic 2nd Company Master on bike

 

A few different Relics etc.

[Bryan Blaire]

From the looks of things Ultramarines can ally with any chapter, even Ultramarine successors.

Nah, it appears that armies that have the same Chapter Tactics (the example given was Ultramarines and Praetors of Orpheus, a UM successor) and Legion gene-seed origin would fight as part of the same detachment, not as Allies. The only exception that seemed to be given was Imperial Fists/Crimson Fists and the Black Templars, because Templars are so different from the rest of the Dorn line.

 

However, we won't really know for sure until we get C:SM in our hot little hands.

 

That said, I'd also really like to see a Successor supplement, something in the vein of the Farsight Enclaves, that gives a bunch of new characters and details about how the Unforgiven operate as a semi-Legion, how the Hunt works, do they have operatives in the Inquisition and various Adeptus, how the Disciples of Caliban operate (since they seem to have a focused goal) and if any of the successors have altered their warfare patterns from the DA version to give a slightly altered army list or include any extra units.

[HsojVvad]

I like to see a Successor Chapter as well. I don't want to see just a RW supplement.

Then what is next? Deathwing Supplement?

 

We already can make a pure RW or DW army right now. I don't think a supplement

will add anything to it. Adding a Successor Chapter and then we can make our

RW and or DW armies even more colourful. 

[Grotsmasha]

A Successor Supplement gets my vote as well, rather than a pure RW one. It'd be great to get official colour schemes an iconography for the specialist companies specifically.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[SRSFACE]

How about the ability to add Plasma Talons to HQ bikes? I find it kind of silly the black knights get them but the Inner Circle librarian or Interrogator-Chaplain alongside them is just on a regular ol' bike. The ability to give them skilled rider would be pretty neat too.

[Knight of the Raven]

You can already field an army entirely composed of the Ravenwing, or one with very heavy presence. There are already plenty of Ravenwing units. Why would you want a supplement for them instead of one for a successor chapter?

...Actually, since you're all one legion, would there even be any difference in modus operandi?

[WarSpirit]

The way supplements goes they won't make one for ravenwing. We have better chance to see one for a successor chapter. Ravenwing is a part of DA, not another army like hyaden, farsight enclave or black legion in their respective codices.

 

Not saying it's impossible but the way they handle supplements i doubt you will see a ravenwing supplement. For me it don't make sense.

[Syphid]

I would like to see an Unforgiven supplement.  I think there is enough fluff difference between the various DA successors that they could get a couple of new rules each.  New weapons options for some of our units that don't have a lot of variety would be great, too.

[[TA]Typher]

The Ravenwing is great in it's current form and although it would be cool to have more options and wargear, I don't think it's really needed.

 

What is needed (even more than a successor chapter supplement) is a Deathwing supplement. the current form of the Deathwing is pretty weak and disjointed right now. I've ben playing the DW for a long while now and they are a rather weak version of the DA codex. Don't get me wrong Term armor is great, but low model count and lack of flexibility (IE: no anti-air, lack of firepower, unit costs, etc) hurt a pure DW list very bad.

 

Against shooty armies like Tau or Eldar, who's units are now dirty cheap your chances of winning drop dramatically. I talked to one of the GW employees the other day he told me that he believed that a pure DW list is currently broken and unusable. He was talking about Tourny lists, which I kinda agree with him on.

 

Anyway... a DW supplement is sorely needed.

[WarSpirit]

What we would need for a pure DW army is the ability to take a Dw squad in heavy support where you can field cyclones with flakk. Or mortis dread with AA firepower. 

[Master Sheol]

I would like to see all three supplements...

 

A RW supplement with alterations to the FOC (for example BK going to elite) new relics and new warlord tarits would be nice... in addition to generic Master on bike (with all RW rules) Chaplain of the RW (each comapny has its own chap and i think that the chaplain of the RW should follow RW rules) , plasma talons as upgrades to IC bikes, new missions, apocalypse formations and so on...

 

A DW supplement i think it could work with FOC alterations too (DW troops, DWK elite, DW dreads heavy support, DW LR as dedicated transports only) , new relics, special rules, warlord traits, missions, apocalyspe formatiosn and so on...

 

A Unforgiven Supplement with additional SC for each grand master of each successor chapter and things like that with new relics and so on...

 

All these armies could work like in SM codex as allies and battle brothers for DA army... OFC like in farsight supplemnent some limitations are required... For example DA with allied RW cannot take RW units in its main FOC... so only DW and GW units... and viceversa for DA with allied DW...

 

It could be interesting... I hope mr. veetock is listening :P

[SRSFACE]

The only supplement Dark Angels should be getting is actually a Chaos supplemental codex, if you catch my drift.

[Master Sheol]

Unforgiven supplement... But that's not a supplement for DA codex so it doesnt count... ;)

[ValourousHeart]

I would love to see a RW supplement, but I have one thing to say.

 

If they make this supplement, Black Knights should NOT be elites.

 

They should be an HQ choice... Hear me out here.

 

The only warlords you should be able to take are Sammie or a hunt master.

You should have an option for a chaplain, librarian, or techmarine, but they can't be your only HQ.

 

So no need for redundancy, you don't need a hunt master as an HQ and also leading a FA squad... Just move Black Knights to HQ.

 

No need for the RWCS, just role the options into the HQ choice. Bump the hunt master to 2W.

 

With that done the other choices become easy.

 

HQ - Sammie & RWBK (either may be warlord)

HQ - Chaplain & Librarian (may not be warlord)

HQ - techmarine (no slot)

Elite - flyers

Troops - RWAS... Maybe scout bikes or scouts w/ LS storm

FA - RWSS & Dark shroud

HS - vengeance & tempest

 

So what do you thing?

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

RW would be pointless...

 

I'd rather see and Angels of Absolution supplement as the only chapter with a different viewpoint on the Fallen, or Consecrators as they are the ones with all the goodies and can you imagine the fun with all those rare wargear items?

[Alvena]

Please guys, don't hope for an expensive version of what we have already.

 

We do have both RW and DW, full of flavor.

 

Unforgiven supplement yes why not,

successor chapter to get some more Love/fluff/rules yes.

 

But the last thing i want : is to pay for a supplement who do "the same but better because it's new".

 

i would rather hope for a FAQ who change some pricing/profiles (which won't ever happen)

[plasmaspam]

The only thing I can see missing from the current C:DA is a generic Chapter Master, one who can take TDA or a Bike to unlock DW or RW.  Thus successors could be represented without having to field clones of Belial and Sammael.

 

That's certainly not enough to warrant a supplement though, so can't see one happening.  DW and RW are already very comprehensively covered.

[Surrender_Monkey]

I'm building my Angels of Absolution Ravenwing right now (bike squad nearly done, I'll post pics once I work out how to take a decent picture).

 

The planned list of course uses Sammael, and while I am going to use a different model (got my eye on a forge world Scimitar Jetbike) it still feels kinda "wrong" using a Dark Angels special character in a successor army.

 

So yeah, a generic company master who can unlock bikes as troops would be nice, representing either a successor chapter's master or one Sammael's predecessors.

 

My problem about GW supplements so far is they haven't offered anything that couldn't be done with the generic codex. You could already build a decent Iyanden Ghost Army with the Eldar Codex, or a Farsight Enclave, and the Black Legion has always been the basis for the Chaos Space Marine codex. It's a similar situation here, generic masters aside you can already build a Ravenwing or Deathwing Army, does it really need a supplement?

[ValourousHeart]

They have already said directly that Azreal is the GM over all of those chapters. They may have a generic or named company master but they won't have an equivalent to Azreal.

 

We also know that all of the HQ and first companies of each successor are members of deathwing. So Belial isn't just the head of the 100 marines form DA's first company, he is the head of all of the first companies from all of the sucessor chapters.

 

And the same could also be said for Sammie.

 

But you guys are right we should get an unforgiven supplement, but it should cover the fallen. You remember the guys that stayed loyal to the emperor.

[Master Sheol]

VH... all Unforgiven chapters have their own Grand Master and the MotDW and MotRW (though in various unforgiven chapters RW and DW are named in different ways)...

Azrael is just the head of the Unforgiven "legion" but each chapter need a Inner circle that lead them... they cannot always ask to DA what to do...

 

About your ideas on a RW supplement... you made too much changes to the FOC, erased one unit (RWCS) and added a FW unit (LS tempest)... this is wat too much for a supplement... GW supplements make minor adjustments to the FOC (farsight supplement moves crisis teams from elite to troops and introduce custom farisht bodyguard... BL supplement moves chosens to troops without the need to have abaddon too and if you take abaddon you can boost a single unito of terminators... Iyanden supplement gives you the possibility to elect a wraithknight or wraithlord as your warlord and to have a wraithseer council...) and focus more on additional rules and new warlord abilites and new relic items...

 

ABout the possibility to have or not a RW/DW supplement according to the fact we can already field a pure RW/DW army with the use of DA codex... You can with eldar codex field a pure Iyanden army or with tau codex a farsight enclave army... does this stopped GW to make a RW supplement??? the reply is no so i think they can do a RW or DW supplement too if they want... with slight changes to the FOC (example RW supplement could move BK to elites) new special rules (for example in a RW supplement all IC have the RW special rules) options (generic master can take a bike too so you can field a RW force wiithout sammael) warlord traits and new missions/stratagems for CoD/apocalypse formations...

 

My two cents

[Cactus]

From their Legion, they sired the Angels of Absolution, the Angels of Redemption and the Angels of Vengeance, each new Chapter led by its own Grand Master.

The Unforgiven coordinate their actions, and it is not unknown for the Supreme Grand Masters of all the Chapters to gather for summit meetings on the Rock.

The successors follow the same organisation as the Dark Angels, a Supreme Grand Master leading a council of Grand Masters. The Supreme Grand Masters of the Unforgiven chapters operate in the same way (circles within circles) and Azrael, as Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels, is ultimately the boss of them all. Think of him as the chairman.

 

On topic, I don't care for the idea of Ravenwing or Deathwing supplements. GW are clearly pitching them as background books with a handfull of rules and wargear thrown in. I don't think there's enough to say about the first and second companies to fill seventy-odd pages. Sure, you can tell cool stories about them but I'd rather have that in novels, comics and audio than an extended non-rules section of the Codex.

[jeremy1391]

They need a supplement for the successors!!!

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I think having Consecrators as a supplement with the options to master-craft weapons on all characters as well as having new, awesome relics, more artificer armour units and old school guns would be a lovely book.

 

In fact, I can see them being the best army to develop in a supplement for the DA. So many possibilities to throw in fluffy guns/units and relics.

[ValourousHeart]

@ Master Sheol,

 

I am going to skip on the Eldar codex as I really don’t know anything about the back story or the codex/supplement.

 

The Tau codex is able to make a Farsight Enclave lead by Farsight himself. The Chaos codex is able to make a BL list lead by Abaddon himself. The two supplements allow you to make both lists a little cleaner. They also move signature units to another FOC slot (troops) and they allow for other leadership options that are flavorful.

 

Both of these codex when fielding these particular flavor of list have sections of the FOC that are choked with units that are fluffy, whereas the supplement addresses that in some way.

 

Codex DA does allow for a RW build but requires that you take either the master of the second company or the Supreme Grand Master of the Chapter in order to field it. It also has a very choked FA section of the FOC. Sound familiar?

 

Most people are asking for a generic captain that can lead their small RW force… And I agree that a 500 pt patrol does not need to be lead by Azreal. It doesn’t even need to be lead by his direct report – Sammie. The option for a lower level lieutenant, someone who would report to Sammie, is just what is needed.

 

So my suggestion does just that. I moved a signature unit to a different FOC slot, the flyers to Elites. The Black Knights and the RWCS are essentially the same unit, the difference is that one has command options and the other can be increased to 10 men. I felt that they would make a perfect HQ unit with a minor tweak to the Hunt Master.. W2.

 

So in a similar way that the Tau codex combined HQ, Elite and HS units into a single HQ that could be fielded individually or as a unit… I combined a HQ. Command Squad and FA unit into a single HQ that could be fielded w/o an IC.

 

The Tempest was probably a little OTT, but was added simply as a balancing unit. I didn’t feel that having only a single option for a FOC slot was right.

 

One could probably make a very similar argument for a DW supplement; however I feel that when we actually find one of the fallen, Belial would probably quote The Shredder… “Tonight their can be no mistake, I’ll go myself.”