Anggrath the Unbound

[skarn]

Just got the new IA Apocalypse book. Anggrath has a toughness value 2 higher than a normal bloodthirster, 3 more wounds, and a 2+/3++ save.

 

In the fluff, whenever this guy has shown up, its been the GK who have shown up to take him down.

 

So, you have 1000 points of GK to banish Anggrath. You can take a single deathstar, or coteaz and a mass of space monkeys.

 

How would you do it?

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Perhaps several small units (so they can charge into the combat on separate turns, making the most of Psyk-Out 'nades). Having some Techs/Grandmasters with Rad, and stack on more layers of Hammerhand. Staves on the Justicars, to soak up his hits by challenging him.

[skarn]

Small units are probably a good idea, but you can't challenge him as he isn't a character.

The real killer though is that 2+ save. Without that, I'd say a vindicare to break the invulnerable save, then Draigo to pile wounds on. 

With the Titan Sword being AP3 though, that just isn't going to work. :(

Maybe massed psybolt ammo stormbolters?

[BloodTzar]

Draigo alone to deal with him, like a man, and some DCA as chearleeders.

[Brother Maikel]

1k pts? easy:

 

Coteaz (Prescience, hopefully Misfortune or 4++)

OXI: Venom Talon, Rad + Psycho Grenades, ML1 (Hammerhand/Prescience)

10 Paladins: 8x Daemonhammer, 1x Warding Stave, 1x BroBanner, 4x Psilencer

8 DCA (Axe/Maul) + 2 Crusaders (Maul) + Banisher

 

Alternately swap the Henchmen for a Vindicare to try to strip the invuln prior to having the Pallies charge.

 

Warding
stave pally and Crusaders tank incoming wounds, Daemonhammer pallies
and DCA force 3++ saves.  The banisher forces any successful Invuln save
to be rerolled.  If the daemon lord is not immune to force weapons, the
brobanner guarantees activation, otherwise the Pallies cast Hammerhand
to boost their attacks to S10 and help out the DCA.

 

This
is the one opponent where the Psilencer is actually far more useful
than the Psycannon: it guarantees a wound on a 4+ (instead of
Psycannon's 5+) and the 3++ means the occasional rend doesn't really
matter, plus 6 shots vs 4.

 

If you want more
pure-GK, I'd take a GK Libby with ML3 (Div powers) or Brotherhood
Champion and a Vindicare instead of the Inquisitors and Henchmen.  You'd lose out on some of the incidental wounds but still get rerolls, hammerhand, and the invuln-stripping should make up for the lack of bonus wounds/rerolled saves.

[Gentlemanloser]

Does he have EW?

 

If not, Jump 4 NDK into him, and ID him with S10 Force Weapons.

[skarn]

He has EW, plus a 2+ deny the witch, and any dice roll that wounds on a set value, ie psilencers, poison etc, wounds on a 6 instead.

 

The best way might be something that lowers his Ld then hope he fails daemonbane?

[skarn]

Also, attacks that would kill him outright (such as the brochamp) do D3 wounds instead.

Even Hector Rex is going to struggle thanks to his sword being ap3 (it does do d6 wounds though).

[Gentlemanloser]

Grav Cannons then.

 

5 shot weapons that wound him on 2's (reroll failed to wounds), and only allow his Invulnerable Save.

 

Does the Invulnerable Save come from Wargear?  If it's a psecial rule, the Vindicare can't remove it.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Monkeys. Search your feelings, you know it to be true

[Gentlemanloser]

You get two Monkeys for each Centurion.  Ignoring the second weapon, that either two LC/PC/MM for one Grav Cannon.

 

I don't need to mathhammer that to know the Grav Cannon wins. ;)

[skarn]

well, he has a 3++, toughness 8 & 8 wounds. he's going to take the centurions hits and destroy them in CC.

 

But just for this topic, can we stick to GK?

 

I was actually thinking 20ish strikers with psybolts, deployed around a unit of 5+ pallies with daemonhammers (& 1 staff).

Preferred enemy is actually pretty handy, and the pallies' WS5 and str10 ap1 hits help too. by deploying the strikers around the pallies it means the pallies are going to get the charge (for psyk-out grenades). 

[Gentlemanloser]

 

well, he has a 3++, toughness 8 & 8 wounds. he's going to take the centurions hits and destroy them in CC.

 

He's going to take everyone's hits and destroy them in CC...

 

Nemesis Daemonhammers are the onyl way to take him out, and weight of numbers/attacks.

 

That means as many GKT as you can fit into the points.

 

Force Weapons are pointless, so use your Power on Hammerhand, giving you S10 and wound on 2+.  This means you don't need Rad or grenade caddies.

 

That being said, Empyerian Brain Mines mught be fun.  And Psychotrokes.

 

Take some GKGM, and give the GKT reroll 1's to damage.

 

Talk to your group about whether Quicksilver makes your NDH go on I10 or not (not opening that can of worms, but you should ask the question).

[Brother Maikel]

Take some GKGM, and give the GKT reroll 1's to damage.

They already have that from Preferred Enemy(Daemon).

He has EW, plus a 2+ deny the witch, and any dice roll that wounds on a set value, ie psilencers, poison etc, wounds on a 6 instead.

Gargantuan Monstrous Creatures (flying or otherwise) aren't actually EW. Instant Death (and other removes-from-play effects) inflict D3 wounds instead. Also, the GMC/GFMC rules specifically call out poison and sniper weapons. The Psilencer doesn't have either of those rules, instead it says that it wounds daemons on a 4+ and so should still apply.

(I borrowed a copy of both Apoc & IA:Apoc last night)

 

Also, ID weapons will bypass his FnP, so activating force weapons wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

Unfortunately, looking at the book, it seems like they switched the invuln from being a wargear-granted save to being an inherent save.

 

With all this in mind, I'd say the best loadout is probably:

 

Libby - ML3 (Div), Warding Stave, Brain Mines (245)

Paladins (10) - 4x Psilencer, Warding Stave, BroBanner, 8x Daemonhammers (635)

OXI - ML1 (Hammerhand/Div), Psychotrokes (70)

Henchmen - Banisher, Maul Crusader x2, Warrior Acolyte (49)

 

The libby has 3 chances of getting Precognition, which would give him a rerollable 2+ Invuln against the Daemon. He and his paladin friend can tank incoming wounds for a while, as the rest of them wail on him with daemonhammers. OXI and/or Libby can give Paladins Hammerhand, allowing them to trigger ID (d3 wounds/wound, no FnP) with the BroBanner while still wounding on 2+. The Banisher forces the daemon to reroll successful 3++, while the Crusaders & Acolyte provide ablative wounds and the Power Mauls have a slim chance at knocking the daemon down to I1.

 

Incidentally, this is one of the very few matchups where I might actually consider keeping Foreboding.

[FashaTheDog]

He is easy to counter; just field one yourself and say he is a bound daemon (bound of course by your Spiritual Liege, Mat Ward) in service of the Grey Knights .

[Gentlemanloser]

If he still takes 1d3 from force wepaons, then I still say take 4 NDK and punch him out.

 

Activate FW every time and each wound you inflict deals 1d3 wounds instead.

 

His 2+ Deny does nothing to stop FW activation.

 

8 Wounds, on average that's 4 Doomfist wounds.

[skarn]

The rules specifically say he has eternal warrior and that weapons that wound on a fixed roll need a 6 to wound him. Its pretty clear on both points.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Reaver Titan. You'll never face him except in Apoc anyway. 

[Brother Maikel]

The rules specifically say he has eternal warrior and that weapons that wound on a fixed roll need a 6 to wound him. Its pretty clear on both points.

I can't find either rule. Are they in the IA:Apoc or the new Apocalypse rulebook? I suppose it's possible the version of IA:Apoc I saw wasn't actually the most up-to-date. Would you mind giving me a page number?

 

The only rules I can find are those for Flying Garagantuan Creatures, Apocalypse Rulebook pg 69, under the "Unstoppable" heading:

Any attack that normally inflicts Instant Death or says that the target model is removed from play inflicts D3 Wounds on a Gargantuan Creature or Flying Gargantuan Creature instead.

 

In addition, attacks with the Sniper special rule only cause a Wound on a roll of 6. Attacks with the Poisoned special rule will only cause a Wound on a roll of 6 (unless the attack's Strength would cause a Wound on a lower result).

@GL:

I4 AP2 is nice, but NDK don't get psyk-outs so Anggrath's actually striking first against them (I5). He gets 7 attacks even when charged, hits on 3+, wounds on 2+ and has a decent chance that at least one or two of the wounds will be Instant Death due to the Axe. If he gets the charge off then he's striking with 7+d6 attacks instead. I think a TDA-based list would do a better job overall of overwhelming him with ID AP2 attacks, while minimizing incoming damage with the warding staves.

[skarn]

Hi Maikel,

If you go here: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/fwDownloads download the apoc update and look under Appendix II: gargantuan creatures, it talks about EW and fixed dice results needing 6s.

[Brother Maikel]

That update is for IA:Apocalypse 2nd edition (which was released for 5ed 40k). It was published in July 2012, while IA:Apoc 3rd edition came out early this month (August 9th), and should supercede that update.

 

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/IMPERIAL_ARMOUR_APOCALYPSE.html

[skarn]

Huh.

Well i may not be a clever man, but i know what love is.

[Brother Maikel]

Heh. No worries.... I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy or completely misreading the rules somehow

Also, we finally found something the psilencer is actually good at.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

@GL:
I4 AP2 is nice, but NDK don't get psyk-outs so Anggrath's actually striking first against them (I5). He gets 7 attacks even when charged, hits on 3+, wounds on 2+ and has a decent chance that at least one or two of the wounds will be Instant Death due to the Axe. If he gets the charge off then he's striking with 7+d6 attacks instead. I think a TDA-based list would do a better job overall of overwhelming him with ID AP2 attacks, while minimizing incoming damage with the warding staves.

 

Charge him with a lone Psyk-out/Psychotroke/Empyreium Brain Mine 'nade caddy.

 

And 4 NDKs. ;)

 

Activate the Force Weapons an Punch Him out.

 

Psilencers will still give him his 2+ Save and FnP, so they will still suck. Royally. ;)

[Brother Maikel]

Charge him with a lone Psyk-out/Psychotroke/Empyreium Brain Mine 'nade caddy.

And 4 NDKs.

Activate the Force Weapons an Punch Him out.

Psilencers will still give him his 2+ Save and FnP, so they will still suck. Royally.

Yeah, psilencers aren't great, but they're better than any other weapon at our disposal: even the venerable psycannon isn't going to be nearly as good as it usually is (T8, 3++, FNP). They're cheap (10 ea), and might take a wound or two off beforehand (24 shots, hit ~11/12 times, wound ~7/12 times, then 1/9 wounds go through).

The other advantage of the TDA list is that its less reliant on getting the charge. NDKs will get eaten alive if they face him one-on-one, and since they aren't ICs they can't group together. He's got the maneuverability of a FMC, so teleporting NDKs don't have any advantage over him in the movement phase. The TDA list can be deployed so that the henchmen are shielded from a charge by the pallies/OXI/Libby, and utilize their 24" weapons (such as they are) to plink wounds off him until he either lands (or is grounded) within charge range or charges the pallies (his shooting attack is only 12" S7 AP3 Assault 2, so ). Since the banisher works on any daemon unit within 6", he doesn't even have to be in combat to force the rerolls. Between the banner, the grenades, and possibly CAtk from Foreboding, the loss of charge attacks is not a huge factor and the 2++ will allow them to tank enough incoming wounds to survive a couple of rounds.