Chapter Tactics for the Dark Angels

[FerociousBeast]

There has been a lot of understandable anxiety around these parts concerning the latest Codex: Space Marines rumors. Having read through the latest info dump, however, I feel pretty good about how our codex fits into things. Centurion- and gravgun-envy aside (however misplaced it may be ), the big things most of us were worried about are anti-air options and chapter tactics. Well, unfortunately the anti-air problem remains, but I feel a lot better after having read through the C: SM chapter tactics, because if you think about the special rules in our codex as Chapter Tactics, we compare very favorably.

All the CTs (minus the Ultramarines' CT and its temporary effects) in the current rumors consist of one rule that applies to all or nearly all models army-wide (FNP for Iron Hands, Hit and Run for White Scars, Bolter Drill for Imperial Fists, Scouts for Raven Guard) as well as one rule that applies to a particular "flavor" unit (respectively: It Will Not Die! on vehicles and characters, better bikes, Tank Hunter on Devastators, better fast attack units). Within that model, what are the Dark Angels' Chapter Tactics?

Army-Wide:

Grim Resolve or Inner Circle

Flavor Units:

Deathwing get Split Fire, Vengeful Strike, Deathwing Assault, Inner Circle

Ravenwing get Hit and Run, Scouts, Teleport Homers

Now, granted, we have to pay for some of that and C: SM doesn't, but those are some pretty considerable boosts, so I think a price hike is not unreasonable.

Thoughts?

(Nice breakdown here if you haven't caught up with the rumors yet: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/08/codex-space-marines-chapter-doctrines.html)

[Syphid]

I'm not too jealous of C:SM CT.  Our special rules are built in to our units and wargear.  Some of our units benefit more from these rules than others, but that doesn't seem any different from the rest of the C:SM chapters.

[facmanpob]

I think about it in this way, C:DA is essentially 3 codexes in 1 - Deathwing, Ravenwing and Greenwing.... I'm not bothered about C:SM and I don't have codex envy :)

[elphilo]

Honestly the only thing I'm really jealous of is the only thing I've been jealous that SM get, Storm Ravens/talons. Even though the centurions sound like SM broadsides, they can keep em :P

 

Now if their terminators got a drastic points reduction, then I'll be miffed. 

[facmanpob]

Honestly the only thing I'm really jealous of is the only thing I've been jealous that SM get, Storm Ravens/talons. Even though the centurions sound like SM broadsides, they can keep em :P

 

Now if their terminators got a drastic points reduction, then I'll be miffed.

Looks like they are paying upgrade points for TH/SS, so I wouldn't worry about them getting cheap termies

[Bryan Blaire]

Agreed FerociousBeast. No worries about anything here and I think over all, we are still going to have a well balanced Codex vs. C:SM. I think we're still short on AA, but I don't think that the C:SM got a ton of boosts there.

 

I'm withholding judgment on the Grav guns until I actually see rules in hand and at least one game with them. Not sure they will really be a game changer they seem a little too specifically oriented to make a game wide difference.

[JeffJedi]

If Gravguns wound on the armor save aren't they worse than Plasma against Power Armor?

[[TA]Typher]

Deathwing get Split Fire, Vengeful Strike, Deathwing Assault, Inner Circle

 

While I don't know about all the C:SM rumors or the break down vs the rest of our codex, but the DW section isn't really that great.

 

Let me explain. Split fire is great and is really only the shining rule buff they got, but after that it's either down hill or a wash.

 

Vengeful strike is a wash at best. The low volume of fire that the DW puts out really makes this ability marginally useful. I would have preferred something like +1 strength from all ranged weapons or double the amount of shots on the turn they deepstrike. If we ever do get a DW supplement this would be a cool addition to a pure DW list.

 

Deathwing Assault is ok, but it pales in comparison to the old 5th edition version. Of course this is because of the binding reserves rule which really hampers the DWA rule. Dropping your whole army on the end of turn 2 would limit the insane amount of fire some of the new codex's can pump out now. Before 6th if you did everything right and the dice gods favored you, then you could DS your army in, do your damage and take your objectives and the game would end before the enemy could counter smash your face in. Now you have to suffer through at least 5 rounds of whittling fire and hope you have enough line of sight limited terrain and your opponent makes mistakes and the dice don't turn on you.

 

Also, DWA works best when you DS either large units or multiple units. like I said before the DW isn't know for it's firepower, it's known for the 2+ armor and powerfists smashing skulls. the amount of damage they do from their guns pales in comparison to close combat. You need to get into CC. Unsupported a Terminator unit can easily die to a combined volume of fire on the turn the DWA. Redundant units and/or largerunits helps mitigate that and helps ensure your DW units can bring the pain to the enemy. DWA helps, but like I said it's a poor shadow of it's former glory.

 

Inner circle is great, we've always had it (at least since I've played DW) and even if we didn't have it adding a IC could give you the same ability.

 

Over all the DW abilities aren't the windfall that they would seem.

[Syphid]

If Gravguns wound on the armor save aren't they worse than Plasma against Power Armor?

 

Plasmaguns and Graviton guns are both good depending on what you are facing.  It's like comparing a power sword to a power axe to a power maul.

 

Graviton guns have more shots at AP2 and don't overheat.  They have a shorter maximum range, but have more shots outside of Rapid Fire range. They reduce the Initiative of multiple wound models, and may be better at wounding MC and ICs depending on their stat line.  They also have a chance at immobilizing vehicles that plasma guns wouldn't be able to scratch.

 

Plasma guns can overheat, which might kill the wielder.  They have higher Str meaning they can ID T3 models and are more likely to destroy lower AV vehicles.

[shabbadoo]

Graviton weapons are meant to be used on multi-wound models that you want to become Initiative 1 for the remainder of the turn, because after firing the graviton gun (s) at them, you then charge the target with model armed with thunder hammers, powerfists, and chainfists to finish them off. If one is firing a graviton gun at anything else, they are either a moron or do not have a more viable target to shoot at (one would hope that it would always be the latter case).

More on topic, I think the Dark Angles rules compare very well with those given to the various chapters in the new C: SM. Grim resolve may seem somewhat lackluster, but it does mean that it is extremely difficult to shift even the most basic Dark Angels off of objectives in close combat, and the Ravenwing and Deathwing have even more perks than most of the Chapters in the new C: SM do (but, yes, they do pay a bit for it, and they should). Dark Angels did not get screwed over in this area.

[twopounder]

 

If Gravguns wound on the armor save aren't they worse than Plasma against Power Armor?

 

Plasmaguns and Graviton guns are both good depending on what you are facing.  It's like comparing a power sword to a power axe to a power maul.

 

Graviton guns have more shots at AP2 and don't overheat.  They have a shorter maximum range, but have more shots outside of Rapid Fire range. They reduce the Initiative of multiple wound models, and may be better at wounding MC and ICs depending on their stat line.  They also have a chance at immobilizing vehicles that plasma guns wouldn't be able to scratch.

 

Plasma guns can overheat, which might kill the wielder.  They have higher Str meaning they can ID T3 models and are more likely to destroy lower AV vehicles.

Where are you getting this info from? The only thing I've heard is that they would wound on the armor - nothing about strength, range, ap etc. If they are AP 2, then it makes them completely lethal to almost everything with a 4+ or better save. At str 6, they would instant kill power armor and terminator armor, and wound all tyranid non-troops on 2+ with instant death..

 

Is there any real information on this, or are you using 2nd ed wargear cards (which will most likely be irrelevant to what the new stats are).

[Syphid]

 

 

If Gravguns wound on the armor save aren't they worse than Plasma against Power Armor?

 

Plasmaguns and Graviton guns are both good depending on what you are facing.  It's like comparing a power sword to a power axe to a power maul.

 

Graviton guns have more shots at AP2 and don't overheat.  They have a shorter maximum range, but have more shots outside of Rapid Fire range. They reduce the Initiative of multiple wound models, and may be better at wounding MC and ICs depending on their stat line.  They also have a chance at immobilizing vehicles that plasma guns wouldn't be able to scratch.

 

Plasma guns can overheat, which might kill the wielder.  They have higher Str meaning they can ID T3 models and are more likely to destroy lower AV vehicles.

Where are you getting this info from? The only thing I've heard is that they would wound on the armor - nothing about strength, range, ap etc. If they are AP 2, then it makes them completely lethal to almost everything with a 4+ or better save. At str 6, they would instant kill power armor and terminator armor, and wound all tyranid non-troops on 2+ with instant death..

 

Is there any real information on this, or are you using 2nd ed wargear cards (which will most likely be irrelevant to what the new stats are).

 

 

If you look up the regular rumour/leak sites (faeit 212, dakkadakka forums, warseer forums, etc) the info is pretty widely available.

[Cactus]

twopounder, I believe there's also a topic in the 'Rumours' section of this very website that summarises the above information and much more.

I'm perfectly happy with our 'Chapter Tactics' in the form of the Grim Resolve and Inner Circle rules. There things we can do with Codex: Dark Angels that aren't possible with Codex: Space Marines and vice versa, as it should be.

[Ronin_eX]

Upon hearing that a very important line was left out of the Ultra's CT, I became quite relieved (as well as any Imperial Fist players who feared the tactical doctrine outright trumped them).  It being a once-per-game thing is actually quite reasonable.

 

It also sounds like they aren't just getting 100% access to our non-relic armoury either (no Power Field Generators for them!) which gives us a very unique feel.

 

Between our inherent rules and our uniques (Black Knights are still excellent units, as are DWKs), I am actually surprised that this is turning out better than I had feared.  Even the costs are staying pretty level (their TH/SS termies are going up in price).

 

I'm still kind of miffed about them having universally better AA assets than us (especially since the Hunter is something every chapter should have access to).  But in terms of other units, we still make out pretty well.  Unless the Centurions (which look horrible to me) are some kind of transcendent unit, we should be okay.

 

Now, if GW would just retroactively give the early 6E codices some in-codex AA oomph (I'd even be willing to buy a supplement!) then I think they may have kicked the whole "earlier marine codices are beta tests for later ones" thing.  But I am still going to be a bit cautious.  I think the main stumbles of early 6E codices had more to do with mishandling flyers and AA options than with general power level (but at least options can be solved through allies until they are fixed in codex, not ideal, but there it is).

 

C: SM will still likely prove the favourite, but these rumours aren't making me weep for what could have been.  The codex we got still feels like it can contribute and still has tricks that vanilla can't touch.

[shabbadoo]

The only thing that will really annoy me is if comparable units get point changes, and GW doesn't update them via the Errata/FAQs.  GW has the most simple of tools available for them to do this (i.e. the Errata/FAQ updates), so it is something that they have no excuse not to do, and they need to do it.