GK Knight supplement please GW. Now.

[Gentlemanloser]

I want to be able to ally in a second FoC with Battle Brothers.

 

Just like Every other Marine chapter can.  Yes including Chaos Space Marines with the Black Legion supplement.  Hell, Marines now get to do it with just thier single Codex.

 

Not only are we up :cuss creak without a paddle from having no Battle Brothers (so sorry 'nids I understand if you don't want to read this topic!), but we can't even cheese the FoC pre 2K Dual FoC without taking AoC.

 

Unlike all other Marines, who can now take two HQ and three Troops (as BB, without effecting thier usual army) and gain an extra HQ/Elite/Fast/Heavy slot (and two more Troops, if anyone cares) for *nothing*.

 

This is starting to increase the balance disparity the Allies have bought into 40k (again, so sorry you got utterly shafted Nids...), and I *demand* the ability to join in on a level playing field.

 

If I have to get a GK Knight based supplement to do so, so be it.

[henrywalker]

ok ok, calm down :D yes we have been a bit shafted by that. 

 

what supplement would you want though? inquisition maybe? i could see that, with more variety of inquisitors and henchmen and some guard units such as storm troopers and vehicles and such. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Purifers, Paladin, I donno.

 

Something that would let me run 4 Nemesis Dreadknights.

 

Just like Space Marines can run 4 x something in thier dex and Choas can do 4 x Helldrakes/Obliterators, etc.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Play Space Marines if you want that. In all honesty, we run out of points before army slots, even at 2k I'd struggle to need more than the standard FoC chart for my typical lists. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Come on RD, running out of points cannot ever be an excuse used with the Grey Knights when Coteaz is available. ;)

 

HQ: Coteaz (100)

 

Troop: Warrior Accolyte x5, Storm bolterx5 (35)

Troop: Warrior Accolyte x5, Storm bolterx5 (35)

Troop: Warrior Accolyte x5, Storm bolterx5 (35)

Troop: Warrior Accolyte x5, Storm bolterx5 (35)

Troop: Warrior Accolyte x5, Storm bolterx5 (35)

Troop: Warrior Accolyte x5, Storm bolterx5 (35)

 

Heavy: NDK, H Incinerator (160)

Heavy: NDK, H Incinerator (160)

Heavy: NDK, H Incinerator (160)

 

Total: 790

 

Why don't we have an option to add something like the following;

 

HQ: Inquisitor, PML1 (55)

 

Troop: Strike x5, Psycannon (110)

 

Heavy: NDK, H Incinerator (160)

 

Which would *easily* fit within our points.

 

Just like Chaos Marines have been given the ability to do so with the purchase of a suplement.  And now Space Marines can do so *without* one.  Just with thier basic Codex, which has literally given them unlimited Battle Brother allied options.

 

Heck, that list above costs only 1,115 points.  We could use this 'Ally with ourselves' :cuss :cuss :cuss to add in *4* Strom Ravens and still be under 2,000 points...

 

Ally balance was *badly* thought out an implemented to begin with.  Iyanden make a slight amount of sense when they stopped it allying with Codex Eldar.

 

But removign that with the Black Legion suplement and now the base Space Marine Codex.

 

Well, that's outright lunacy.

 

GW have literally given Space Marines licence to ignore the FoC, by allowing them to manipulate the number of slots they want, for their own existing units.

 

And I *demand* the ability to play the same game.

[Lucien Eilam]

The allies chart has nothing to do with game balance. It's about background. Different Space Marine Chapters work together all the time. Grey Knights stand alone.

 

And I *demand* the ability to play the same game.

:lol: Good luck with that.

[Gentlemanloser]

The allies chart has nothing to do with game balance.

 

Which is why an interesting and expansive new option failed at the first hurdle.

 

I was not surprised.

 

 

Different Space Marine Chapters work together all the time. Grey Knights stand alone.

 

Strange thing is, I ally with all the Marine chapters *all the time*.

 

Plus, I'd like to ally myself to myself.  Represnt two different GK 'brotherhoods' working together on a common goal.

 

Edit: What's the difference between Salamanders and DIY Chapter #55543 working together and letting you field 4 Storm Ravens, or Chaos Space Marine Warband 1 and Chaos Space Marine Black Legion 2 working together to let you field 4 Helldrakes any different to Ordo Maleus Inquisitor Bob working with Order Hereticus Inquisitor Stevedave working together and letting your field 4 Nemesis DreadKnights?

 

Balance?

 

Can't be fluff.  We can now have a OH Inquisitor lead a unit of NDK into battle, as can an OM (or OX) Inquisitor.  The Fluff allows this.

 

The fluff also allows us to have an OH Inquisitor alongside an OM Inquisitor, so that can't be against the fluff.  Right?

 

(Just like GKs walking side by side with Daemonhosts!!! Go Go!)

[Lucien Eilam]

No, the fact that all those other types of alliance could be represented perfectly well with a single detachment, which isn't possible for different Space Marine Chapters because of the new trait system.

 

Being from a different warband doesn't give Chaos Marines different rules. Being from a different Brotherhood doesn't give Grey Knights different rules. The only difference is in painting and modelling. The same can' t be said for different Space Marine Chapters under the new Codex. You can't represent White Scars allying with Black Templars without a second detachment. They're more different than "these ones are painted black and these ones are painted white".

 

The only thing allowing Grey Knights to ally with themselves would do is add more slots. More slots isn't the point of the Space Marine rule.

[Gentlemanloser]

First, that doesn't answer why Chaos Marines can do it.

 

Secondly, Traits isn't an excuse.

 

Most Traits *don't* effect all units.  You could run a Space Marine list with White Scars traits, paint your bikes as White Scars (which get thier Chapter Tactics) and paint your Dev Centurions as Rainbow Warriors, who aren't effected by Traits.

 

Basically, what you're listing as a valid reason to allow the Space Marine dex to break the FoC (even without a suppliment) is so that Marine Players can use two in codex 'allies' to get Traits twice and pick and choose the most powerful combination.

 

To which I return to "Massive balance :cuss up", and demand the ability to play that game, on the current level.

[Captain Idaho]

They're not going to release a supplement before the Codex, you zealous Purifier you!

 

Apart from that, what you're saying is you want to take a cheesy army to fight cheesy armies. I understand this might be a fair point when in a tournament but it's not a priority for the games developers or even most players. (I'm a tournament player so I do sympathise)

 

So really I'm leading to say you need to rein in your expectations. Grey Knights are awaiting an update like everyone else, and are better placed than most to compete.

 

It's advice to stop you going insane or having a heart attack my friend! ;)

[Preston10K]

I don't think we need a supplement, maybe a advance on the current FAQ (which is more likely) but i think Orks, Nids and Guard (ive been informed 2014) will be updated before GK is touch. 

 

I can actually see us not getting anything until the around the 7th edition.  Meaning some FAQ updates will be required. 

[boreas]

I think they're right... Our codex will stay "as is" until the next update (18-24 months?). We'll get comparatively worse until we get better, but at least we started from a much better position than Codex: Daemonhunters!!!

[Gentlemanloser]

 

They're not going to release a supplement before the Codex, you zealous Purifier you!

 

Oh joy!!!  Create *more* disparity between new and old 'dexes why don't you GW?

 

So only the current updated 'dexes get suplements, while the old, out of date ones can't even get a little lovin'.

 

/sob

Apart from that, what you're saying is you want to take a cheesy army to fight cheesy armies. I understand this might be a fair point when in a tournament but it's not a priority for the games developers or even most players. (I'm a tournament player so I do sympathise)

 

If you don't care about balanced armies (the you is in general!) then you don't really care about rules.  Just do/use what you want, while downing your 5th pint of Stella!

So really I'm leading to say you need to rein in your expectations. Grey Knights are awaiting an update like everyone else, and are better placed than most to compete.

It's advice to stop you going insane or having a heart attack my friend!

 

:D

 

No fears there, 40k is nothing more than humerous for me atm.  I can't take the game seriosuly any more, and not in the good ol RT light hearted way either!

[Lysere]

I'm sorry, complaining about codex age disparity are we? At least your codex wasn't 2 editions behind and then rolled into the generic space marine book because GW didn't care enough about updating it on it's own. Honestly though, grey knights and the inquisition should be separate books that can be allied together in the first place. Then again this is GW.

[boreas]

Haha, your last line reminded of a movie line (I paraphrase):

-This is madness!

- NO, THIS. IS. GAMES-WORKSHOP (kicks the codex in a hole...)

[Lysere]

Haha, your last line reminded of a movie line (I paraphrase):

-This is logic!

- NO, THIS. IS. GAMES-WORKSHOP (kicks the codex in a hole...)

 

Fixed that for you. I will say look on the bright side, by the time GW gets around the GKs again they will be much better at this edition of codex. Since DA and CSM came out they've been getting better and better.

[Preston10K]

I think Grey Knights still kick a$$ I've played all the new debs bar SM at least twice and can honestly say that if you arrange your games tailor your Army Lists it makes for a better game. Having a moan about an army not being balanced compared to any other will have you going around in circle until GW release a new rule book and every one gets a new dex all at once.

 

If you don't like the book get codex SM when it's out then take your issues to the SM forum in 3-4-5 years time when that's out of date.

 

Grey Knights still pack a punch. As I was told when I questioned about the 6th edition, codex GK was made with 6th ed in mind hence the flyer, ect.

[boreas]

@Lysere, I was referring to the disparition of BTs... I'm still happy with my GK codex, even though I start feeling it's age vs some other dexes. But, it's by no way just logic that's applied on GW's part. It's business logic. GW wants you to buy the new shiny, so they have to escalate all the time. If they'd applied gamers logic, they would try to perfectly balance every codexes, both internally and externally. A Herculean task, but by no way impossible. I used to nerdrage all the time because I felt frustrations about the huge power difference between codexes. I feel it's better now, but I also kinda let go. I just stopped caring. That's very good for my wallet :)

[Madmaardigan]

A grey knight supplement to give us more options without being allowed to ally with anyone could only give us 1 of 4 options IMHO,

 

1) a purifier supplement as the purifiers are there own 40ish man order within the order, also they remain to be the most elusive in terms of what is actually know about them IMO

 

2) a paladin supplement yet another elite seperate group with the sole responsability of safe guarding the grandmasters as well as the most insane indoctrination process in all the astartes

 

3) an inquisition codex which could be cool in terms of allying with them as battle brothers opening up more slots on the FOC, and kool new options for henchmen/knights.

 

Those 3 I could see the next and last one is an idea but I doubt it;

 

4) make a supplement based around one or more specific brotherhoods.

[Sothalor]

I'd love a Paladin supplement just for the fluff:

 

- More details on the eight quests aspirants undertake

- More of their role within the Chapter: How are different Paladins assigned to brotherhoods/Grand Masters? Do they volunteer? Do they go back to the brotherhood they were part of before they ascended to Paladin rank?

- Famous/notable members - this is particularly lacking in the current codex.

- Their relationship with the Supreme Grand Master - rules-wise, Draigo makes them troops - why? Does the SGM just get a bigger bodyguard? Is there some dedicated Paladin strike force at his beck and call?

- Their relationship with "regular" battle-brothers: we know Purifiers are isolated and secretive, are Paladins the lauded exemplars within their Chapter?

[DinoDoc]

I wouldn't say no to either a Deathwatch or a Mordrak's Brotherhood (this one would be a perfect excuse to fix his rules) supplement. Mordrak's Brotherhood would also fit in with the trend of doing supplements on specific companies of a chapter.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Haha, this thread is still going?

 

Well, we've got Red Hunters as BBF's now, and their special move is pretty hilarious if one-use, so can't say we didn't get a good deal out of Forge World. Pity Exorcists aren't also BB, but they are kinda nuts (pick any Chapter trait lel). 

 

I'll re-iterate again; below 2,000 points, its very unusual you'll have the points to max out all our army slots. Coteaz Acolyte spam aside, it's practically impossible with Knight units (because they're 200pts+ usually), and trying to spam Ravens or DK's isn't really a good plan. Far better to build a solid core of scoring (remember, Grand Strategy still works, and Coteaz doesn't mean you shouldn't also bring Knight Troops), then add our power units to support it. 

[Judaz]

As an assault friendly Blood Angel, I really think GK needs a new codex or a supplement

[ThatOneMarshal]

I also hear that a codex: inquistion is coming out 

[Valerian]

Marshal, a digital codex Inquisition is indeed coming out, but it isn't going to relieve any of these Codex: Grey Knights issues.

 

V