If Horus could have chosen the legions that sided with him..

[DuskRaider]

Honestly, I think Horus had a pretty good lineup anyhow. The problem he runs into the is the very reason the Heresy started in the first place... Chaos. Look at Fulgrim, who was more than happy to sacrifice his brother for personal gain. His entire Legion is completely hopelessly lost, and they actually do nothing to help on Terra itself... If the Third Legion had stayed more organized, Horus may have faired a better chance.

[Kol Saresk]

But if he had a better chance, Chaos would have died and taken Humanity with it.

[Conn Eremon]

If the Cabal is to be believed or isn't simply in error.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

If the Cabal is to be believed or isn't simply in error.

[Kol Saresk]

If the Cabal is to be believed or isn't simply in error.

Well, since Erebus is the one trying to "win" and Lorgar is chillaxing and setting things up for the Long War, not just the next five years........ I'm willing to go that winning the Heresy would have been bad for Chaos.

[Wade Garrett]

 

 

If the Cabal is to be believed or isn't simply in error.

Well, since Erebus is the one trying to "win" and Lorgar is chillaxing and setting things up for the Long War, not just the next five years........ I'm willing to go that winning the Heresy would have been bad for Chaos.

One of the reasons Lorgar turned Angron was that only the Eater of Worlds and Horus himself had a shot at offing Sanguinus on Terra. He's very much trying to "win" the Heresy.

 

And while I might buy Horus wiping the human race out by going to war with...everybody after killing his dad, the idea that would end Chaos is laughable. There are still dozens if not hundreds of xenos races who follow the Dark Gods, not to mention that all the suffering caused by an Imperium wide war of annihilation would swell the Primordial Destroyer's power beyond imagining.

[GhostMalone]

But man kind is the current dominant race, the main supply of power,if you remove mankind some races may eventually evolve back but that's a long time in the making.

 

Look at the Tau absolutely no pshycic imprint on the warp so their emotions don't feed them like we do.

[Gree]

Given that Slaanesh was seemingly birthed by the Eldar, a xenos race that died with it. I personally don't put much stock in the Cabal's nonsense. The Chaos Gods supposedly have been around since the birth of sentient creatures after all. I'd say humanity going away would probably hurt the Chaos Gods, but destroy them forever? Nah.

[Wade Garrett]

But man kind is the current dominant race, the main supply of power,if you remove mankind some races may eventually evolve back but that's a long time in the making.

 

Look at the Tau absolutely no pshycic imprint on the warp so their emotions don't feed them like we do.

Nope. Tau souls may be bland thinly sliced turkey breast compared to juicy T-bone steak Eldar or human souls, but they are meat for the Chaos Gods regardless.

 

It's quite possible for them to be corrupted or even possesed, look at the "Fire Warrior" novelization, featuring a Shas who became best bros with Khorne.

[GhostMalone]

I wasn't trying to say they were nulls, just that there warp presence is close to nonexistent due to a lack of psyker mutations. As a race they have the luck of bring under the chaos gods radars

[NemFX]

You go to war with the army you have, not the one you want.

 

Ideally, if unrealistically, Horus would have picked the biggest and most stable armies because then he could win through numbers and tactics, instead of surprise and carnage. He used each of his brothers personalities and quirks against them to fashion the traitor legions into something effective, but if he could have just used each legions standard abilities, that would have been better.

 

Imagine if Horus was leading his chapter, the Ultramarines (sheer weight of numbers, relative lack of reliance on supply chains) the Imperial Fists (right next door to Terra, would have been a devistating sneak attack) and the Emperors Children (each a perfectionist, probably the most skilled legion in terms of overall competence per marine)

 

Even without the other legions, just those four would have done some incredible damage.

[Greyall]

It has nothing to do with resistance to Chaos.  Some Legions would have just been better to have for the revolt then others.  Horus might have even been able to carry out a protracted war against his father with the backing of the 500 worlds and Gulliman.  Instead of the smash and grab approach he used.  With different Legions he might have ben able to isolate and destroy the loyal legions before even heading to Terra.  Resupplied and rearmed then show up at Terra with the better part of 9 legions.  Rather then the misfits he used in the real heresy. 

 

This, then, has turned into a vs thread. No context, no mindsets, nothing changes beyond the Legion's team. We go by each army's IA entry and tally of conquered worlds during the Great Crusade and sort the winners. All done. I'm sorry if this is harsh, but you're just not factoring in a lot of elements that have made the current traitor Legions into 'misfits'. We'd just be throwing Legion doctrines at each other.

 

By the way, the World Eaters retreated and held back until the signal was given like everyone else at Isstvan V.

[Stonerhino]

And broke ranks and charged on Isstvan III.

 

Chaos temped every Legion.  Some of the ones that fully embraced it are the misfits that Horus was forced to choose.  If you eliminate what forced Horus' hand in choosing his allies.  Then it open up more possibilities.  You can't just pull out say the Emporor's Children and pug in loyal legion X and say that Legion X would turn out the same as the Emperor's Children.  You have to look at the fundamental differences between the two legions.  And also remember that Legion X was temped by Chaos and more or less passed that test.  

 

For example if Horus would have chozen the SWs and 1K sons.  Then it is possible for the attack on Propero to be the SWs showing up, high fiving the 1kson and slaughtering the sisters of silence and Custodes.  Then disapearing only to show up on Gulliman's doorstep to do the secret handshake then run off to destory any legion that has questionable loyalties to Horus.  Before moving on to the next legion.

 

Changing the player in the Heresy greatly changes the face of the Traitors.  The more stable the legion then the more likely they are to remain stable during the Heresy.  Which in and of itself makes the Heresy more likely to succeed. 

[Greyall]

Now we're in agreement, at least with most of your post. That example about Prospero is precisely what I meant, Horus choosing new allies would've changed most of the battles, trajectories and strategies. And, of course, each Legion's paths. Since the Chaos Gods were intent on getting their private armies all along, they'd have used whatever strategies they could to influence the new traitor Primarchs.

 

Also, I'm not so sure the most stable Legions would be less subject to change.

 

The Death Guard are stone-cold and they embraced Nurgle once he gave them enough snot.

 

The Emperor's Children, for all their vanity and hubris (which other Legions also possessed, though not to the same point), were extremely reliable soldiers, the pinnacle of professionalism and talent combined.

 

The Iron withoutin Warriors are falling to Chaos one by one.

 

On a particular case, Khârn, the most stable of the World Eaters, doesn't seem to notice he's now able to move and fight like a human combine harvester on nitro.

 

Yet look at the Night Lords. Unstable as all hell, yet they are pretty resistant to Chaotic influence, due to having the jackass gene.

 

 

In each of the more stable Legions the Chaos Gods would've found something to twist the knife into and convert the Primarchs:

 

Guilliman has complexes about being a high achiever, something Slaanesh might've used - don't be afraid of perfection and such. Tzeentch would've liked their ability to follow complex strategies, as well.

 

Dorn is frequently boastful, but is also a pretty predictable character who expects orders to be followed unquestioningly and to the point. Also, his love for fortresses and defense - sounds Nurglish.

 

The Khan and his Scars might've been the Night Lords of the group, they're too indepent to commit to particular gods as a whole or even allow daemons and such in their midst.

 

Vulkan is a furnace ready to blow. All that conscience must hurt as hell, let uncle Khorne open the vents just a little...

 

Sanguinius would be Khorne's, as well, he's another with a conscience smothering his true instincts. Slaanesh would've liked the Blood Angels, as well, but their 'flaw' makes them Khornate.

 

Ferrus would be either Khornate (works like bionics in terms of offense), Nurglish (works like bionics in terms of resistance) or Undivided.

 

The Raven Guard...dunno. Corax was a darkish soul and an enormous strategist...maybe they'd be Tzeentch's enforcers?

[High MarshalGR]

Now we're in agreement, at least with most of your post. That example about Prospero is precisely what I meant, Horus choosing new allies would've changed most of the battles, trajectories and strategies. And, of course, each Legion's paths. Since the Chaos Gods were intent on getting their private armies all along, they'd have used whatever strategies they could to influence the new traitor Primarchs.

 

Also, I'm not so sure the most stable Legions would be less subject to change.

 

The Death Guard are stone-cold and they embraced Nurgle once he gave them enough snot.

 

The Emperor's Children, for all their vanity and hubris (which other Legions also possessed, though not to the same point), were extremely reliable soldiers, the pinnacle of professionalism and talent combined.

 

The Iron withoutin Warriors are falling to Chaos one by one.

 

On a particular case, Khârn, the most stable of the World Eaters, doesn't seem to notice he's now able to move and fight like a human combine harvester on nitro.

 

Yet look at the Night Lords. Unstable as all hell, yet they are pretty resistant to Chaotic influence, due to having the jackass gene.

 

 

In each of the more stable Legions the Chaos Gods would've found something to twist the knife into and convert the Primarchs:

 

Guilliman has complexes about being a high achiever, something Slaanesh might've used - don't be afraid of perfection and such. Tzeentch would've liked their ability to follow complex strategies, as well.

 

Dorn is frequently boastful, but is also a pretty predictable character who expects orders to be followed unquestioningly and to the point. Also, his love for fortresses and defense - sounds Nurglish.

 

The Khan and his Scars might've been the Night Lords of the group, they're too indepent to commit to particular gods as a whole or even allow daemons and such in their midst.

 

Vulkan is a furnace ready to blow. All that conscience must hurt as hell, let uncle Khorne open the vents just a little...

 

Sanguinius would be Khorne's, as well, he's another with a conscience smothering his true instincts. Slaanesh would've liked the Blood Angels, as well, but their 'flaw' makes them Khornate.

 

Ferrus would be either Khornate (works like bionics in terms of offense), Nurglish (works like bionics in terms of resistance) or Undivided.

 

The Raven Guard...dunno. Corax was a darkish soul and an enormous strategist...maybe they'd be Tzeentch's enforcers?

 

Khârn was once honourable and stable. Now I think he lacks both traits.

 

As far as Chaos goes, don't forget that it's still chaotic. In 40k it's really presented as a twisted order of sorts, but it's still chaotic. The principled and ordered minds of Guilliman and Dorn were not close in embrasing the nature of Chaos itself (something rarely considered in 40k, but I think it is there. Thank you Malal for reminding us the nature of Chaos, that it still is unstable.) Vulkan and Sanguinious have compassion, something Chaos lacks due to it's unstable nature. Corax was loyal, even if he became too bitter and dark, he had honor deep within. Ferrus is another case, since I would personally avoid depending on him, too mechanical to trust.  On the same subject, Russ could be Khornate if he wasn't a man (in the Greek sense of the word). 

 

Keep in mind all of the Loyalists would find their place within Chaos as it is presented in 40k universe, I'm not saying they couldn't, but I think history proved most of them were ordered, something Chaos can't tolerate (it comes in contradiction with it's nature).

 

We love you Malal, 40k finally decided to remind us Chaos is Chaotic.