Choosing a Legion

[No Foes Remain]

Yeah, mock the Primarch who valued his oaths more than his life. Because the Primarch who valued his own bitter jealousies more than his oaths is superior. They were iron bonds and, as ever, Perturabo had let them rust.

Perturabo saw the truth, the Emperor was using him and the Iron Warriors as wall breakers as others claimed the glory while they battled in the mud and blood. The Iron Hands wouldn't know what to do if they attemted to make siege the way the Iron Warriors do.

 

 

 

And Kol, that was the worst joke. Ever.... Of all time.

 

Clearly you haven't been following Kol's spree...;P

 

Oh I have, but that was the worst.

[Conn Eremon]

Kol's a Floridan. Aside from the retired elderly and the Presidential race in 2000, that's all they have.

[Greyall]

Kol's a Floridan. Aside from the retired elderly and the Presidential race in 2000, that's all they have.

 

There you go. Sometime around the end of the week your cat should turn up skinned. It's all downhill from then on...

[Conn Eremon]

Damn right the Emperor was using them. He was using all of them. That doesn't make the Iron Warriors special for whining about it. They had been bred for war. Not all wars are glorious. Some of the wars that matter most are the ones of mud and blood and nothing else. The Iron Warriors had that. They owned that. Everyone knew their worth, their talents in that. The Iron Warriors did what was required of them. But it didn't last. They broke. They shattered. Their bonds became as dust. Son to Father, Brother to Brother. Theirs was proven the weaker alloy. Even your dismissal of the Iron Hands shows off the pettiness. 'Nobody knows what it was like for us, you don't understand us.' The Iron Hands understood. Life is war and war is hell. The weak die, so that the strong may live. Deal with it, because that is the only deeper meaning this universe holds. The Iron Hands did. What's your excuse?

 

@Greyall: Not my Lia . . . ;_;

[No Foes Remain]

Cormac stop putting up such a good argument or I'll have to start respecting you.

 

 

Also, I think I need Heathens to back me up. This is proving harder than I thought.

[Greyall]

For the record, and while dislike both their MO and their colour scheme, the Iron Warriors aren't weaklings, no matter how misguided. They joined Horus because of Olympia's culling and promptly became hardasses. Nothing wrong about that. If you play on the traitor side of the conflict, you know you're bound to get some mind-boggling reasons (or very bad decisions made in the heat of the moment) to be on that side. It boils down to:

 

- Want brute force (both ranged and melee) delivered by cyborgs and heavy warmachines/robots? Iron Hands

 

- Want shells delivered by stern-faced badasses who'll fly into a rage the minute they go base-to-base? Iron Warriors

 

Also, choose by colour.

 

I'd still advise to at least look into the Dark Angels, they also match your personality description and preferred warfare style.

[Conn Eremon]

Like Prime before him, I will make ColdWinter's choice for him. He will choose the Iron Hands. I will win this.

 

I will have him. I will have him, Cpt Uriel Ventris. I WILL HAVE HIM! /General Zod

[No Foes Remain]

 

I will have him. I will have him, Cpt Uriel Ventris. I WILL HAVE HIM! /General Zod

You are one strange dude. You want to turn him into a robot with just a little fleshy organ bits. Or a Warrior who takes the fight to the enemy, no matter what. Wading through the mud and blood, causing a victory that those who claim it couldn't have don't it anyway.

[Unknown Chronicler]

I have been reading the argument of both sides and I must say the forces of the Traitors and Loyalists both make me want to just go on a Forge World shopping spree, alas though I want to focus my attention on only one legion and going through the votes...again I have found that Iron Warriors and Iron Hands both once again come at the rank ( 4 on 4)

 

@Greyall  Thanks for your input I will definitely look make another look at the Sons of Caliban again so I can see what they are all about as there is bound to be more information on them

 

Now this is the last time I am going to ask anything but if anybody can give me a solid combat doctrine of both of these legions (which I know is a lot to ask for, but go on your opinion as well as facts on pros and cons). Then I can see on a definite reason as to why I should pick one or the other legion

[Kol Saresk]

And Kol, that was the worst joke. Ever.... Of all time.

Clearly you haven't been following Kol's spree...;P

All I'm saying is, I'm a Night Lord fan for a reason. And it wasn't the comedy routine.

And yeah, these winter birds get to you. The talking, the driving, the "You young whippersnappers" and the "its so hot"..... I'm starting to hear voices..... What's that Pinky? No. No ice cream. It's time to take over the Nursing Home. And then, the world!

On topic, yeah, those Iron Hands.....

[TheForgottenAngel]

So I'm just going to leave this here.

 

http://cdn.meme.li/i/og664.jpghttp://cdn.meme.li/i/og68u.jpg

[No Foes Remain]

Kol, you're drunk. Take a nap.

[Kol Saresk]

Kol, you're drunk. Take a nap.

But I don't drink alcohol... I'm the cleanest Floridian in five states over.......

[No Foes Remain]

Iron Warriors select their foe, dig trenches and pound the living crap out of whoever is unlucky enough to be against them. Then once they are done with that they send waves on Infantry and Tanks to kill whatever survived.

 

 

Kol, you're drunk. Take a nap.

But I don't drink alcohol... I'm the cleanest Floridian in five states over.......

Then you need a snikers then.

[RolandTHTG]

I'm going to put a vote in for the Iron Hands, as much as it pains my chaotic heart to do so.

I tend to be cool headed, especially when in combat situations when I
was back in the military and I have a high tendency to be unrelenting
and unmerciful, I am also slow to anger. Now to the essential stuff; I
love infantry warfare, heavy armour and most of all if possible
flexibility in warfare against all odds but if not then I would
improvise to the situation.

 

Lexicanum

 The Iron Hands have a reputation for being relatively straightforward and incredibly harsh. In the Battle of Thranx, for example, the resources of several depleted clan-companies were pooled for a full frontal assault using five Land Raiders against a facility bristling with anti-tank defenses that had made a mockery of previous attempts with whole armoured companies; in the
retaking of the Contqual Subsector, one third of the population was summarily executed after a successful campaign simply to demonstrate the price of weakness.

 

 

Besides, to add to Cormac's crusade,
Some legions take vows or inscribe them on parchment or in paint. Empherial things, destroyed in the fires of battle or worn away by time. But the Iron Hands make their vow to the Imperium and to their brothers a part of themselves, replacing their own flesh to do so.

[Conn Eremon]

 

 

The Iron Hands in battle during the 40k:

In battle, the Battle-Brothers of the Iron Hands are at once ferocious and terrifyingly controlled. They advance relentlessly and fight fueled by 10,000 years of anger, hatred, and bitterness. Yet, they never lose control or become slaves to their emotions. Every blow they strike is made stronger by the anger behind it. Though the same could be said of many Chapters, the Iron Hands are utterly without mercy, slaying the enemies of the Imperium with a cold, mechanical resolve entirely divorced of any sort of doubt or weakness.

 

All Iron Hands brethren are bionically enhanced in some way, for even the most recently initiated Battle-Brother has had his left hand replaced with the iron gauntlet that marks his acceptance into the ranks of the Chapter. Within a few years of their initiation, most Battle-Brothers sport a burgeoning array of augmentations, many of which stay hidden under their power armour. In many instances these enhancements bolster the Battle-Brother's combat effectiveness in some manner, influencing the tactics he utilises on the battlefield. At the very least, replacing organic flesh with steel increases the body's resistance to physical trauma. Individual Iron Hands brethren utilise a wide range of bionics that afford them capabilities beyond even the superhuman Space Marines, including highly esoteric augur receivers bonded directly to the nervous system, inbuilt weaponry, and even, in some cases, additional limbs granting the Battle-Brother the ability to carry especially cumbersome weaponry.

 

In the main, the exact nature of the enhancements a Iron Hands Battle-Brother undergoes is unique to himself, a lifelong program coordinated according to the arcane counsel of the Iron Fathers. Even within the ranks of a single squad of Battle-Brothers initiated at around the same time, there is little cohesiveness. On very few recorded occasions, Battle-Brothers with a complementary range of enhancements have been grouped together into a single squad, or else squad mates have undertaken to coordinate their surgeries. Such squads rarely adhere to any particular pattern or standard doctrine and their composition may never be repeated again.

 

For example, when an Iron Hands strike force assaulted a fortress in the Cellebos Warzone garrisoned by the Stigmartus Covenant, a single Devastator Squad whose bodies had been heavily enhanced, led the assault into the teeth of the traitors' guns. Each Battle-Brother's frame had been augmented with heavy pneumatic bracing that allowed him to carry two heavy weapons, in this case multi-meltas, as well as reinforced frontal blast shielding to protect them from enemy fire. The squad created a breach in the previously impregnable curtain walls, and held it while conventional forces were moved up to exploit the hole, capturing the entire fortress within ten hours. It was not simply the bionic enhancements of the squad's members that made such a feat possible, for without the cold anger to fuel them onwards under such a terrifying weight of fire, no force would have been able to achieve such a victory.

As for their Index Astartes page:

The Iron hands' particular hatred for weakness in any form or nature has a marked effect on their combat doctrine. This hatred is extended to incorporate the physical body, and they see weakness even in their own augmented physiques. These perceived frailties are ruthlessly eradicated through any possible means. This has further developed to a near worship of the mechanical that approaches the zeal and devotion of the Adeptus Mechanicus. A weak body can easily be broken or led into temptations of the flesh, so they believe, and this is what the Iron Hands hate and fear most of all. Consequently, the harder, more mechanical the body, the less room there is for the physical failings and frailties.

 

The Iron-Fathers fuel the hatred and anger of the Iron Hands with rousing speeches and oratories, encouraging its growth and intensity. The Chapter takes this powerful emotion onto the battlefield, where it is focused against the enemy at hand, whoever that may be. The Iron Hands fight with renowned intensity and determination, certain in the knowledge that they act for the good of Mankind by crusading against the weak and corrupted. The cold fury of the Chapter as it goes to battle is fearful to witness and deadly in its effectiveness. The bitter Space Marines advance machine-like and relentless, throwing themselves violently at the enemy in their focused, severe fervor. The Iron Hands revere the limited number of Terminator suits and Dreadnoughts that they possess and treat them with the utmost respect and devotion. Entire squads of Terminators are rare, however, for the inspiration they create amongst the ranks is better served when they act as leaders of individual squads. Sergeants will often wear Terminator armor that is rumored to be physically bonded to them, and it is not uncommon for battle forces to be led by Dreadnoughts. The inspiration which their presence causes amongst the Iron hands proves to be of more benefit when acting within these roles.

Note that this is 30k, but the primary differences between the two are that the 'flesh is weak' mentality was only that in 30k and wasn't the full blown psychological illness that it is in 40k. If extensive augmetics are not your thing, remember that much of what they augment can be hidden by their power armor. You technically don't even have to have the bionic hand. The armor can cover it.

 

As for the Iron Warriors:

The Iron Warriors follow a simple method. They commence battle with a sustained bombardment utilising every gun at their disposal. The basis of this is a complex fire plan which every weapon is directed with utmost care at the optimum target for maximum effect. Where possible, the Iron Warriors will coordinate with Traitor Titan Legions to add to their own considerable firepower. The bombardment can last for weeks as the Iron Warriors rarely seem to be short of ammunition. They handle their weaponry well, with formations moving forward to fire and then redeploying before any reprisal. Often their entire force will move laterally to bring their fire against enemy weak points, with the result that counter-attacks flounder helplessly in the teeth of the Iron Warriors' weapons.

 

Where possible, field fortifications will be used to reinforce the line. Iron Warrior doctrine includes extensive use of fortifications to tie opponents down with the absolute minimum number of troops. This in turn keeps the bulk of the Iron Warriors troops fresh and available for assaults.

 

When a breach has been forced in the enemy's defences it will initially be probed by veterans and infiltrated, then the gap will be prised open with firepower until a storming force can be unleashed.

 

These storming forces are based around fast moving heavy armour which can move instantly from relentless barrage to lightning-fast advance. Breaches are then widened until the defences are shattered. For the key moments in battle when a position absolutely must be taken, the Iron Warriors adopt an ice-cold ferocity that is comparable to the Blood Angels or World Eaters but only when the moment is right and never for longer than necessary.

 

Once they have an opponent at their mercy, the Iron Warriors are content to surround them and destroy them at their leisure, always preferring to let shell and laser beam do their work for them.

 

The Iron Warriors are expert sappers, engineers and miners and have acquired a formidable siege train of specialist equipment over the centuries. This includes Termite tunnellers, a Leviathan transport, Dreadclaw assault boats adapted for planetary landings and a large assortment of Imperial-built artillery. These are used very sparingly and are maintained and guarded by the 1st Company. Additionally the have a number of Corvus assault pods which allow them to make use of any supporting Titans as siege towers. The Iron Warriors are so frequently supported by Titans that some Imperial experts have asserted that they are part of the same formation. This is not widely accepted, bu the theory is a reflection of the Legion's predilection for heavy barrages.

I have to admit, the Iron Warriors' IA was much better written than the Iron Hands, but whatchagonnado.

[Wade Garrett]

You argue for the Iron Hands while dismissing the sons of Perturabo as whiners.

 

"Oh Iron, I can't take it! The shame of having only this weak eight foot tall superhuman body! Cut it off and give me a metal one!"

 

"Cut what off?"

 

"ALL OF IT! This ugly face...those puny fingers...only when my entire body runs on double A batteries will I be able to deal with the pain of being me!"

[Conn Eremon]

Hey, hey, hey. Get your 40k mentalities out of my Horus Heresy forum.

[No Foes Remain]

The Iron Warriors take their fleshy body and smash the living crap out of anyone who gets in their way. The Iron Hands replace their fleshy bits with metal bits so that the Eldar can manipulate them. Plus I have one acronym for you. EMP. There I said it.

[Kol Saresk]

Wait, don't the Iron Warriors replace fleshy mutant bits with bionics?

[No Foes Remain]

Wait, don't the Iron Warriors replace fleshy mutant bits with bionics?

Post-Hersey, yes. But we're talking 30k here

[Adra'Melek]

I think the answer is to do loyalist Iron Warriors. The Iron Within (or is it Without?) is fugging awesome.

[Unknown Chronicler]

Well the victor was just going to be IH as it was 6 out of 5 but then Thunor's_Hammer commented and now it is even once again...I must say I have a mutual respect for both legions as:

 

Iron Hands: Implacable advance with no fear and with their bionic enhancements are able to endure a lot of fire power while also giving it, their use of heavy armour (mainly bionics) and their different styles make each one of them fight independently without having to look back to leadership necessarily. Now IF I do them then my IH would be one of those clans that fought with Ferrus Manus but in the end only have a few survivors, many of the others died in the conflict. Now the only reason I have not chosen them so far is because after I read Fulgrim I have to say that I was a bit sad that Ferrus Manus would be blind enough to charge into the overwhelming force of traitor legionaries (which by far is the most stupidest military move in history but if I had succeeded in killing Fulgrim it would have been worth it) and that I know FM is a good tactician I will make the excuse for him that he acted upon the emotional side from the betrayal

 

Iron Warriors: Now this legion I admire for their siege craft (which if I may say I am also great at) and their use of highly strategic assets while keeping the pressure on the foe is good but alas there is something amiss with them as they seem to hold back to much in the trenches instead of going out there in the fight, while yes they do not require bionics as much as the Iron hands they still seem to hold too much regret and after I read Angel Exterminatus I had respect for them but at the same time was a bit unnerved by the fact that the ambition of a few of the members almost had the entire mission compromised (and yes I am talking about a specific character who tried to kill Forrix)

 

now am I missing anything?

[GhostMalone]

 

 

Kol, you're drunk. Take a nap.

But I don't drink alcohol... I'm the cleanest Floridian in five states over.......

Dude but how???

 

@__@

 

I thought we could drink scotch smoke cigars and play golf using the new centurion models!

[Kol Saresk]

Well, I think the novel you're referring to is Angel Exterminatus, but no, not really. As far as I know.

 

Jasocat: Alas, that was why I was so willing to let you have all the booze.