On Heavy Flamers

[saturnine]

Is the Heavy Flamer worth its points? 

If so, what works well with it, a flamer or melta? is it better to run dual flamer or melta?

[WarriorFish]

Generally speaking, yes. The extra point in strength and AP is always useful and makes a big difference when shooting at units with a 4+ save. As for the combination you run the unit in it is more or less a personal choice thing depending on how you like to run your lists.

 

I prefer the melta/flamer combo as it is versatile and still effective (especially with a heavy flamer) and it is my default build, but I might add the odd additional unit with double weapons. Specialised units are good, but if you run lots of them then you're making it easier for your opponent to set bad matches up so better to have more flexible units that work together in my opinion.

[Naminé]

Generally speaking, yes. The extra point in strength and AP is always useful and makes a big difference when shooting at units with a 4+ save. As for the combination you run the unit in it is more or less a personal choice thing depending on how you like to run your lists.

 

I prefer the melta/flamer combo as it is versatile and still effective (especially with a heavy flamer) and it is my default build, but I might add the odd additional unit with double weapons. Specialised units are good, but if you run lots of them then you're making it easier for your opponent to set bad matches up so better to have more flexible units that work together in my opinion.

 

The opposite is also true, though.  The more specialised units you have on the table, the easier it is to set up bad matches for your opponent.

 

I used the heavy flamer alongside a standard flamer, and whilst it did alright, there were few games in which it was actually that useful.  Now the main reason for that was simply that I played against lots of armies for a while where the extra +1 S and -1 AP didn't really help.  That said, certain target units make it worth the points, Space Marine scouts, or tau for instance.

The main reason I ditched it was due to the presence of Heavy flamers elsewhere in the army, on better delivery platforms (Pen. Engines and Celestine, for instance).  For the cost of 1 heavy flamer i can pay for 4 normal flamers on a squad of dominions...  which are not only more effective, but are also less likely to get punked in one shot.

 

I have tried running a squad of retris with 4x HF's, and that was effective.  I guess in my experience it's a case of 'go big or go home' when looking at putting flamers on squads.  If your opponent favours an ADL, then HF is definately worth considering.

[mince on toast]

I usually run the 1 squad in a rhino with the heavy flamer & flamer

 

does the job for me as they girlz clean up  what ever my dominions and seraphim have missed.

 

I dont like walking them I find I dont get the points back 

[SinnerBeta]

What is the majority of armour saves in your local gaming group ?

 

If 4+ and higher then yes.

 

If 3+ or 5+ then no.

[WarriorFish]

I tend not to have too many specialised units because I don't like how it telegraphs my intentions to my opponent. Combi-weapons on Superiors were my favourite way to tip the balance a little in a direction but I prefer to save the points now. Like I said it depends on how you like to run your lists, there isn't an outright "wrong" way to get your holy trinity in.

 

Like Naminé said best to pick a method and stick with it for the majority as you'll get better results.

[saturnine]

Thank you all for the responses. My local gaming group mostly consist of MEQ (four of which are Grey Knights ) along with a Tau or two and one guy has both Eldar.

Is it better to run dual melta or melta/flamer for MEQ?

[*Furyou Miko]

I usually run dual flamer, then put meltaguns in my dominion squads in my all-comers lists. Flamers are still nice against Marines.

[Naminé]

I've been running melta on mine, if only to make them be 'seen' as more of a threat. My meta is very marine heavy at the moment, but it's the annoying MC's everywhere that irks me. That said Doms should always be forst stop for melta, as Furyou mentioned. It's just that I have flamer Doms too :)

Honestly, there is no wrong way to set them up. It all depends on your list and synergy.

[WarriorFish]

Ye gods, you have my sympathies that must be boring as hell. On the bright side though I've found killing the shiny Marines to be pretty fun, "best of the best" you say? Seems they die like the rest just fine :P

 

Melta is good for taking anything down as you'd expect, and it makes the GKT and Paladins sweat but flamers are always useful when dealing with infantry no matter how well armoured they are. Wound saturation will kill anything :)

[derpasaurus]

I currently have a Melta/multimelta for objective defense, and a flamer/heavy flamer for burninating the heretics (thinking of painting trogdor on the side of that rhino.) I'm leaning toward building a 3rd with just 2 melta for some more mobility.
I'm actually painting my immolator, sat unprimed for a month and primed for 2 weeks. For it I have 6 dominions w/ 2 melta/combi-melta and the simulacrum imperialis. Wooo they're fun.

EDIT: Completely missed the point!
Yes, I like to double up, for threat saturation/insurance. If I have 2 melta I'm obviously twice as likely to hit. I like doubling up the flamer templates, too, because if you can hit 5 models with 2 templates that's 10 free hits, plus the other guns. 5 free hits vs 2 you have to roll for is a pretty good deal to me.

[oreaper84]

i just want to say that i really love heavy flamers, they are situational and i usually find the either exceed thier value per cost or they dont do diddley, but when they work oh boy. In my meta i ofter run into crons/tau/tellion/eldar where the Hflamer is a godsend. I almost always run one in a melta + combi melta sister unit in rhino, as has been said the versitility is what i enjoy. I dont have to worry about particular deyployment because the girls are a swiss army knife and i run 3+ of these units. I make specilization with my 2 x 10 girl dom squads 1 all flame, 1 all melta. My punch is elswhere in the list and i tend to use the BS squad as cleanup. With different tools they do this task well.

[derpasaurus]

I love how my Flamer/Heavy Flamer squad just cruises around and burns things. I've been in 2 games where they never got out of their transport. One against orks and one against cultist heavy chaos.
I'm looking forward to the possibility down the road of a 4 flamer dom squad. Because fire.
I also love how the hand flamers work with the seraphim. 2 sets of 2 rerolling wounds when they get their act of faith. I'll never be convinced any type of flamer isn't worth it. Let's not forget the rare but awesome rending heavy flamers from retributors. lol :D

[Denison512]

Dual Flamers is a good choice having the 2 D3 Wall Of Death overwatch is really nice when your holding an objective ;)

[RookBartly]

Just remember, if you just want Saturation, the Sister Superior can have a combi-flamer also for holding an objective.  3D3 is a lot of auto hits for overwatch.  It differently makes an opponent think twice before charging the unit.

[RookBartly]

Depending on the game's point limit.  I like to keep a sister-blob on an objective.  If playing a higher point game I will have a 20 strong Battle Sister squad with flamers and combi-flamer.  The Over Watch fire of 17 bolters and 3d3 auto-hits from the flamers makes people pause and think about it.  Also with the larger squad makes them very hard to get off an objective.

[Dread]

Depends I guess. Ran my Immolator toting Ritribs with 4 hvy flamers and combi-flamer into a ruin loaded with tau and instant BBQ, err I mean FISH FRY!! Went thru 3 units of them before game ended. Also deep struck my seraphim and unloaded with their 2 flamers each and Celestines with the same results, just wish I had heated up some peanut oil before frying them but it was still good. Ketchup, please.

 

I found sisters work decent against tau, elder, DE, IG and orks and have a harder time against SM, GK, CSM and necrons. I say if ya got 'em flaunt 'em but never forget the punch of meltas.

[SinnerBeta]

I do plan on playing a game in which I fill up my slots with Dominions, Retributors and BBS and give everyone flamers, heavy flamers and combi-flamers just to see how it turns out. Guess meltabombs will have to take care of vehicles.