Templars, Allies and Grey Knights

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Likely of 'academic interest' only since this will probably cease to be a rule within the week, but the 'meat' of Abhor the Witch says;

 

 

No model with Psychic Powers can be fielded as an ally to the Black Templars and they will not fight as an ally to an army that includes any models with psychic powers, with the exception of Grey Knights Space Marines.

 

To me, this means that;

 

i) if your Primary Detachment is BT, you cannot take GK allies. You cannot take GK allies as you cannot take any models with psychic powers (no exception) as allies to BT. Consequently the only HQ unit in C:GK that allows you to field non-Psyker allies as Troops is a Psyker himself and thus cannot be taken. Ipso facto, no GK allies.

 

ii) if your PD is GK, you can take BT as allies, unless you include a Mystic, Psyker Inquisitor, Dreadnought  (of either kind), Dreadknight Rhino, Razorback, Land Raider (of any type) or Stormraven because BT will not fight as allies to an army that includes any models with psychic powers, with the exception of Grey Knight Space Marines.

 

Agree/disagree?

[RazorDaemon]

The Daemonhunters Codex itself (it was the same era as the BT Codex) specifically says yes, we can be taken as allies of Black Templars. That end note in the BT Codex applies to the entire sentence, that is why it is written as one sentence with no commas, if there was a comma separating the two parts about them being allies and taking allies then you'd have an argument, I remember this point having been discussed and clarified back in the day when C:Daemonhunters was still around.

 

As far as HQ and Troops, using the current C:GK not the old C:Daemonhunters, both standard troops are GK; Grey Knight Terminator Squad (can include Justicar Thawn) and Grey Knight Strike Squad.

 

Your second point is correct as far as the Mystic and Inquisitor with psychic powers go, but the rest count as Grey Knights so they are part of the exception. The way you can tell is the special rules, if they have things like The Aegis, then they are themselves Grey Knights and are part of the exception for Black Templars, be it allies of the BT or BT allied with them.

[Gentlemanloser]

Disagree.

 

The comma makes the exception valid for both clauses.

 

"No model <snip> as an ally" and "will not fight as an ally to" are both ignored by 'Grey Knights'.

 

As for what's a 'Grey Knight', and whether that includes Henchmen, Vehicles, etc, the units int he Codex are "the forces used by the Grey Knights - thier weapons, thier units"

 

So a Mystic is still a Grey Knight unit, in a Grey Knight army list from the Grey Knight Codex. ;)

[Morollan]

As for what's a 'Grey Knight', and whether that includes Henchmen, Vehicles, etc, the units int he Codex are "the forces used by the Grey Knights - thier weapons, thier units"

So a Mystic is still a Grey Knight unit, in a Grey Knight army list from the Grey Knight Codex.

Might be a Grey Knight unit but it is not a Grey Knight Space Marine. Otherwise, I agree with your post.

[Gentlemanloser]

Luckily the BT ally rules don't state Grey Knight Space Marines. ;)

[Morollan]

Luckily the BT ally rules don't state Grey Knight Space Marines.

Was I being misled by the OP then? Cos his quote specifically said GK Space Marines.

[Gentlemanloser]

Ah poop! So it does. Just me getting old. :(

 

In that case, Space Marines only!

[Grey Mage]

Likely of 'academic interest' only since this will probably cease to be a rule within the week, but the 'meat' of Abhor the Witch says;

 

 

No model with Psychic Powers can be fielded as an ally to the Black Templars and they will not fight as an ally to an army that includes any models with psychic powers, with the exception of Grey Knights Space Marines.

 

To me, this means that;

 

i) if your Primary Detachment is BT, you cannot take GK allies. You cannot take GK allies as you cannot take any models with psychic powers (no exception) as allies to BT. Consequently the only HQ unit in C:GK that allows you to field non-Psyker allies as Troops is a Psyker himself and thus cannot be taken. Ipso facto, no GK allies.

 

ii) if your PD is GK, you can take BT as allies, unless you include a Mystic, Psyker Inquisitor, Dreadnought  (of either kind), Dreadknight Rhino, Razorback, Land Raider (of any type) or Stormraven because BT will not fight as allies to an army that includes any models with psychic powers, with the exception of Grey Knight Space Marines.

 

Agree/disagree?

If we break down the sentence using the rules for english we find this isnt a problem:

 

"No model with Psychic Powers can be fielded as an ally to the Black

Templars and they will not fight as an ally to an army that includes any

models with psychic powers"

 

Seems straight forward. This set of clauses is two things conjoined into a single statement. It is then modified by:

 

"with the exception of Grey Knights Space Marines."

 

This last clause is placed and punctuated to affect the entirety of the sentence before it. Thus there is no problem, no issue- GKs can be allies to BTs and vice versa, freely.

 

Thread reopened, my mistake, carry on gents.