Picking Up Dark Angels Again

[NovaScotius]

Hey all,

 

With the release of the new models for Codex Space Marines, I've decided that I want to get back into the Dark Angels, having not played a game for a long, long time.

 

I've got the new book, and toyed with a few list ideas when it first came out, but never put any models together for them.

 

So really, I'm just looking for some basic pointers on how to get the most out of the book, and had a few questions...

 

Tactical Squad Sergeants - I've always thought to go down the route of Veteran status and a Power Sword, but I'm beginning to question the 25 point investment to get there. I've also considered scrapping the Veteran upgrade & Power Sword, and just going with a Combi-Weapon, matching the squad's Special Weapon. What do people think about these chaps?

 

Terminators - What are people's thoughts on these guys now? Back when I was last playing, everyone took THSS on every model and a Cyclone for the squad - I never liked this, preferring the 'Tactical' Terminators with Storm Bolters and Power Fists. Looking through the army list forum, pure Deathwing lists are few and far between, leading me to think that Terminators are not as reliable as they used to be?

 

Flyers - This one had to come up really. The Dark Angel flyers don't strike me as 'bad', they just seem to have gotten the short end of the stick compared to Storm Ravens and Storm Talons - am I best just allying in some Codex Marine anti-air as DA successor Chapters once the new Marine Codex drops, or am I missing something obvious?

 

Black Knights - These fine fellows strike me as 'all that and a bag of chips', pretty awesome. I'm guessing the trick here is having enough, but not too many... So what's the magic number? 6?

 

Army Composition - So where do Dark Angels stand now? Are mono-wing armies viable, or is the list best played as Doublewing? Or even Triplewing?

 

Thank you

[Brother dean]

 

 

 

 

Hey all,

 

With the release of the new models for Codex Space Marines, I've decided that I want to get back into the Dark Angels, having not played a game for a long, long time.

 

I've got the new book, and toyed with a few list ideas when it first came out, but never put any models together for them.

 

So really, I'm just looking for some basic pointers on how to get the most out of the book, and had a few questions...

 

Tactical Squad Sergeants - I've always thought to go down the route of Veteran status and a Power Sword, but I'm beginning to question the 25 point investment to get there. I've also considered scrapping the Veteran upgrade & Power Sword, and just going with a Combi-Weapon, matching the squad's Special Weapon. What do people think about these chaps?

 

 

 

I've wondered that myself...  I do see a squad of Sternguard in my future for just this reason....

 

 

 

Terminators - What are people's thoughts on these guys now? Back when I was last playing, everyone took THSS on every model and a Cyclone for the squad - I never liked this, preferring the 'Tactical' Terminators with Storm Bolters and Power Fists. Looking through the army list forum, pure Deathwing lists are few and far between, leading me to think that Terminators are not as reliable as they used to be?

 

Everyone else seems to have cottoned on to plasma and other low AP weapons, that and the fact that people still fail on ones means that termies are usually outnumbered quite badly....  turning an uphill fight from last edition into a very uphill fight.

 

 

Flyers - This one had to come up really. The Dark Angel flyers don't strike me as 'bad', they just seem to have gotten the short end of the stick compared to Storm Ravens and Storm Talons - am I best just allying in some Codex Marine anti-air as DA successor Chapters once the new Marine Codex drops, or am I missing something obvious?

 

I think they are better than the angst makes them out to be so I am definitely biased.  However they are a finesse unit to pull off the buffs and the C:SM units are "point and click" flyers...

 

 

Black Knights - These fine fellows strike me as 'all that and a bag of chips', pretty awesome. I'm guessing the trick here is having enough, but not too many... So what's the magic number? 6?

6 is not quite enough...  Of course I am still figuring out how to use them...

 

 

Army Composition - So where do Dark Angels stand now? Are mono-wing armies viable, or is the list best played as Doublewing? Or even Triplewing?

 

Thank you

Pick your theme and go.  The various buffs dont cross well with Deathwing (except the FnP banner, that one seems a lot of fun but expensive) just be aware that it isnt a "spray and pray" army, it does require a bit of forethought to use best.

[facmanpob]

You missed out the Whirlwind. Cheap, cheerful, and packs a punch against light infantry. Any Dark Angels army would do well to have at least one of these babies in it.

[SRSFACE]

I like the Dark Talon and have had a lot of success with it, but the Nephilim Jetfighter is simply overcosted. It is capable of doing some damage, just not 180 points worth of damage. It was designed as anti-vehicle but only has one vehicle-armor-piercing strength weapon. Lots of people are hoping the Blacksword Missiles get a future errata to make them worthwhile weapons, as that alone seems to be the weakness of the unit.

 

Black Knights are fantastic. Bring as many as you feel like buying, honestly. They are the codex' all stars because they do everything.

6 is a good number. Personally I bring them as the Ravenwing Command Squad because they are magically 2 points cheaper per model, and have alternative extra wargear options.

 

I actually bring a mix of "wing" because there's a lot of fun goodness in mixed lists. Bikers have teleport homers and scout, so you can move them forward after deploying to then make your turn 1 deep striking terminators not scatter as long as they arrive within 6 inches. It's also hard to argue against just regular ol' tactical marines because they are pretty effective basic troops when compared to other codexes.

 

I don't bother giving CCWs to my sergeants. I try to keep them from getting in close combat if at all possible. Close combat is just a waste of turns when you could have been shooting instead, in my opinion. Typically I don't even bother with Veteran Sergeant as I'd rather just use those ten points elsewhere. It's almost another whole marine.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I mix and match my collection, mainly because it keeps my regular opponents on their toes. And because out of the people I regularly play against I have the largest collection...

 

That said, I do run mono-wing lists. But rarely. I find Deathwing to be the hardest to pull of a win generally speaking, mainly because of spammed Rending/AP2 weapons. However, against Chaos Space Marines I use them whenever I know my opponent is pulling 'Drakes as they turn what is a devastating unit into a points sink. Out of all the DW, I get the most use out of DWK+Interregator-Chaplain, even against Space Marine enemies.

 

I have not run an exclusive RW list, mainly because its not completed, but I do find a DW list with RW support (particularly BK or a melta squad) to be very effective for the most part. It allows me to drop DW where I want them. Finally, a LandRaider is a must in every list I take. Its one of the staples.

 

For Greenwing, they are competitive as long as you include First Company support. Basically, though, the best way to run our codex now is to utilise our units in cohesion together. Tri-Wing has been the most effective all round, eclipsed, perhaps, by Death/Green-Wing teaming up when you lack the points to pay for RW. However, if you want to take RW support I recommend you either run Melta Bikes OR BK as the best options.

 

For Black Knights, I find 6 to be the optimum, although I currently only own three. Which means I usually rely on my Melta Bikes to do the damage.

[march10k]

Hey all,

 

With the release of the new models for Codex Space Marines, I've decided that I want to get back into the Dark Angels, having not played a game for a long, long time.

 

I've got the new book, and toyed with a few list ideas when it first came out, but never put any models together for them.

 

So really, I'm just looking for some basic pointers on how to get the most out of the book, and had a few questions...

 

Tactical Squad Sergeants - I've always thought to go down the route of Veteran status and a Power Sword, but I'm beginning to question the 25 point investment to get there. I've also considered scrapping the Veteran upgrade & Power Sword, and just going with a Combi-Weapon, matching the squad's Special Weapon. What do people think about these chaps?

 

Terminators - What are people's thoughts on these guys now? Back when I was last playing, everyone took THSS on every model and a Cyclone for the squad - I never liked this, preferring the 'Tactical' Terminators with Storm Bolters and Power Fists. Looking through the army list forum, pure Deathwing lists are few and far between, leading me to think that Terminators are not as reliable as they used to be?

 

Flyers - This one had to come up really. The Dark Angel flyers don't strike me as 'bad', they just seem to have gotten the short end of the stick compared to Storm Ravens and Storm Talons - am I best just allying in some Codex Marine anti-air as DA successor Chapters once the new Marine Codex drops, or am I missing something obvious?

 

Black Knights - These fine fellows strike me as 'all that and a bag of chips', pretty awesome. I'm guessing the trick here is having enough, but not too many... So what's the magic number? 6?

 

Army Composition - So where do Dark Angels stand now? Are mono-wing armies viable, or is the list best played as Doublewing? Or even Triplewing?

 

Thank you

 

1. I'm still fond of stubborn sergeants with power swords.

 

2.  DWAing two squads with assault cannons makes for a pretty nasty round of shooting, especially if you can limit enemy LOS to cut down on return fire.  I like to put Belial in a Crusader for his telehomer, along with a melee unit, and then use the crusader's hull to block LOS for the DWAing units, followed up by a charge from inside the crusader.  I think tactical terminators are well worth taking now that melee weapons have AP, and we gained split fire and vengeance strike.  I don't think anyone has recently jumped on the AP2/1 band wagon, that's been going on for a long time, and so it has nothing to do with why people stopped fielding deathwing.  I see three reasons.  One, the standard of devastation is a really great item that people want to use...and it doesn't work with stormbolters.  Two, ravenwing is the favored child of this edition of C: DA, with massive points reductions and cool new toys, so it's the most WAAC-compliant (not that RW isn't fun!)  Three, DW was the only viable build for the last two editions, and people are frankly tired of them and want to do something different.

 

3.  What you're missing is that fliers are a utility item, not a core asset, they don't deserve a separate entry in your "must take, or must be great at killing" listing.  Killing an enemy flier will rarely win you a game, and ignoring one will rarely cost you the game.  I would be very careful about spending too many points on anti-air.  If anything, take units that can kill fliers, but are really designed to do something else.  My own preference is a devastator squad with four lascannons and an attached PFG prescience librarian. That unit is an "easy button" against enemy TEQs and tanks, but it should average slightly more than one hit against a flier...and a S9 AP2 hit against a flier is much better than a couple of flak missile hits, or spending big points on a flier-killing flier, especially when you consider that many fliers can accomplish their missions on arrival, before you get a chance to shoot at them. 

 

4. Black knights are amazing.  They're the centerpiece of the "get those DA players with all their termies to buy a metric butt-ton of bikes now" GW marketing strategy.  I guess it must be working...as for how many to take...how many do you need for them to accomplish the mission?  Take 130% of that number, rounded up.

 

5.  Monowing works fine for all three wings.  Dualwing can be hard to balance, and Triplewing runs a high risk of lacking focus.  Maybe the best triplewing would be a dakkapole list augmented by one unit of each flavor of knights?  Or a DW list with the black knights and a lascannon devastator squad and or whirlwind?  I think the hardest would be a RW-based 2-3 wing list, just because the non-black elements would be too slow to fit the play style. 

[SRSFACE]

5.  Monowing works fine for all three wings.  Dualwing can be hard to balance, and Triplewing runs a high risk of lacking focus.  Maybe the best triplewing would be a dakkapole list augmented by one unit of each flavor of knights?  Or a DW list with the black knights and a lascannon devastator squad and or whirlwind?  I think the hardest would be a RW-based 2-3 wing list, just because the non-black elements would be too slow to fit the play style. 

That's the way to do it. Typically when I run a list that's got both wings and Greencore, that's just it. Green is your core. A single terminator blob with a biker blob as consorts tends to do just fine.

 

It's also worth noting the Dakka banner is amazing alongside bikers. Relentless lets them reposition and still keep the crazy range.

[[TA]Typher]

Really it's up to you how you want to play your DA.

 

For example, I love playing pure Deathwing. I have about 5k in just normal power armor DA, but i fine the DW just more fun. 6th edition has seen them diminished a bit, with the point reduction in some codexes. tau for example can have like 72 fire warriors for less than 700 points. That's wouldn't even give you 3 five man units of DW. This coupled with new hard hitting units like wraithknights, getting spammed by ap weapons is becomming more common.

 

I'm not a fan of the Ravenwing, but From what I've seen they can be pretty good.

 

Not a fan of our flyiers. I don't have one, but on paper they seem rather weak. Plus in all honesty I haven't heard a good review of they yet.

 

So, in the end it all comes down to what you like. Play terms if you like them, or bikes or go flyer heavy.. Either way it's up to you.

[Dread]

Everything that has been suggested is right on the money. I mainly play pure DW or RW. Love them both. Rarely field my regular DA but that's me. As for the Nephlim, I can't speak for the dark talon (don't have one), I have actually taken down a drake with mine but as a whole, it isn't as good as some of the other flyers but does work great in an all RW list.