Forgefiend and Maulerfiend, are they worth it?

[Brother Eleysium]

The title of this topic pretty much says it all, I am building a Word Bearers army and I was wondering what my brothers at the B&C thought about the Maulerfiend and the Forgefiend. Are they worth it? Have you had more success with one variant over another? If so, please feel free to share your experiences and or opinions of each so I can decide if the model is worth the money, because it sure does look sweet!

[the jeske]

In a void ? maybe . In most lists. Not realy for the forge even with 2 FoC and maybe for an assault list for the mauler. But considering the cost of 3-4 maulers it is better to just run demons. They cost more per model , but FMC is better then av 12 vehicles and they have better utility then maulers[ maulers do nothing to flyers, have no rewards, no psychic powers etc].

[minionboy]

Maulerfiends are absolutely worth it, I've got 3 and will probably build a 4th for my Black Legion allies!

 

Forgefiends are a different story though... Unfortunately out of the 3 configurations that you can run them, none of them are really worth the points compared to other options, like Havocs and Obliterators.

[A D-B]

I've seen it go both ways. In one game, our campaign's Alpha Legion player wrecked two Leman Russes with his Maulerfiend, and it became one of those moments you get at gaming weekends where everyone cheers and talks about how cool it looked, even months later. The next game, that same Maulerfiend was taken to pieces by the eldar in midfield, purely because they were so terrified of it reaching their lines. It achieved a grand total of nothing, except being the most hilarious fire magnet imaginable. So Maulerfiends/Forgefiends made it onto the Christmas and birthday lists of pretty much every Chaos player I know, but not with the same load-outs.

 

Double/Triple-ectoplasma-cannon Forgefiends are absolute death on legs to Grey Knight Terminators (and my main opponent is a Grey Knights player; I like things that reliably murder 2+ saves) but the thing seems pretty keen to explode from its own Gets Hot! rolls. That said, you get some tasty defences against it, as both types of 'Fiends are interestingly more durable than their armour saves would suggest.

 

I think if it's pretty much the only non-infantry thing on the table, you're going to lose it before the paint's even dried. If it's one of many walkers and daemon engines, or bundled up in a mechanised army, it can be lethal.

 

Here are some cool insights about it, from 1D4chan's Chaos Marine Tactics article, and Imperator Guides' Chaos Marine Tactica, both of which are comprehensive and freaking awesome:

 

 

 Maulerfiend -

Ahh, its out to get me! NOOO! Anyway, the Maulerfiend is a very nasty unit that
I recommend you give a thorough examination - especially if the model suits
your tastes. Like the Defiler, it has a 5+ invulnerable save, a 5+ It Will Not
Die save, Daemonforge, Fleet and Daemonic Possession. Unlike the Defiler, it
has 3 Hull Points, it moves 12" and ignores both difficult and dangerous
terrain when moving and charging, it has no ranged weaponry, it is more easily
hidden and it has some nasty melee capabilities. All of that, and it is far,
far cheaper than the giant crab. The implications of a 12" movement, the
ability to re-roll charge distance and ignoring terrain for movement and
charging are staggering - this is the fastest walker in the game (that I know of).
Walkers usually suffer from a lack of mobility - this ignores all of that and
is quite capable of first turn charges. And when it gets into combat, it hits
harder than its profile would intimate; WS3, I3 and 3 attacks at S10 AP2
(including the extra CCW) doesn't sound like much, at least until you get to
the juicy options the Maulerfiend has. You come with a pair of magma-cutters
base - each one provides an automatic hit resolved at S8 AP1 I1 Armourbane as
long as the Maulerfiend hits with at least one attack (the magma cutter attacks
are resolved against an already hit model, so they are less useful against
single-wound models), and double that per magma cutter if all of your attacks
hit. This makes the Maulerfiend a wrecking ball when sent against any ground-based
vehicles, and even makes it a threat against most walkers - as long as they
aren't dedicated combat walkers, they are unlikely to destroy a Maulerfiend
before it hits back and destroys them. Seriously, it will on average destroy a
Land Raider or Monolith on the charge. Remember how fast this is too? 



The other is lasher tendrils - for a slight increase in points, you get a pair
of these which each reduce enemy models' in base-to-base A characteristic by
one. Hidden power fists, walkers and monstrous creatures won't look so nasty
with one attack. Whilst this is great in practice, ultimately I find it is less
useful against most targets you will face - namely Space Marines. Almost all
Space Marines come with Krak Grenades, which means the Lasher Tendrils won't
make a difference to them. They will definitely help against other walkers and
the like, but are less useful against grenade-toting infantry. Mind you, it can
mean life or death when charging into quite a few units in the game - it is a
good upgrade, and the power fists will still keep you threatening to vehicles.
Despite this, I find the Maulerfiend's best application to be as a siege engine
that barrels straight towards your opponent's most threatening/expensive
vehicles. Maulerfiends don't care about whether a Rhino or a Land Raider is the
prey - both will more than likely be wreckage once it charges. If you manage to
charge your opponents most expensive vehicle (typically a Land Raider or Leman
Russ, etc), I would recommend using the Daemonforge in that turn. Seriously, it
is worth it to make sure your Maulerfiend makes its points back. As great as I
feel they are, especially given their low points cost, be aware that the lack
of any ranged weaponry means they are essentially useless against flier-heavy
army lists. Also remember that the large size can't always be hidden behind
terrain, as much as the speed of the Maulerfiend will allow you to abuse cover.
Whilst it is cheap enough to use with little regret, and its inherent speed
means it will probably make its points back on turn 1 or 2 when it inevitably
charges, the Maulerfiend needs to be used delicately; mech-heavy opponents will
be scared to death of it, and target it appropriately. A very good choice
overall. 



Forgefiend- The more popular of the
two 'Fiend' variants and perhaps not without good reason, the Forgefiend loses
the Maulerfiend's mobility and close combat potential but instead provides
staggering long to mid-ranged firepower. The goodies of being a daemon engine
are all there, and unlike the Maulerfiend, the Forgefiend can quite happily sit
in your backfield and lay waste to your opponents. The Forgefiend is also a
large and immensely frightening target, like the Maulerfiend - it will draw
copious amounts of attention from your enemies. Don't be surprised if it is the
first thing they attempt to destroy - remember to grin devilishly when it
passes that lucky invulnerable save against a penetrating hit from a
multi-melta or lascannon (it will happen more times than you would think). The
Forgefiend can be equipped in four configurations, based upon its weaponry -
similar to the Maulerfiend, this will change what targets you commonly choose.
The first loadout is standard - two Hades Autocannons. Remember how nasty
Psybolt Dreadnoughts are? The Forgefiend wants a word - 8 S8 AP4 Pinning shots.
The only issue is BS3 and no twin-linked, meaning you will be prone to a bad
roll - by the same token, you will be treated to an ungodly amount of hits. You
average four hits, the same as the Psybolt Dreadnought. In that sense, you are
doing the same job as one of the most points-efficient tank-hunters in the
game. Just be aware that you are quite a bit more expensive, have more in-built
randomness in your shooting, and a shorter range, though you offset this by
being a lot more durable. 



The second option is to keep the autocannons but give it an Ectoplasm Cannon to
replace its head. Ultimately, for a decent increase in points, this will make
you quite threatening to infantry as well as vehicles. 8 S8 AP4 Pinning shots
will hurt almost anything, but adding a S8 AP2 blast makes you far deadlier to
infantry (especially TEQs) and in essence gives you an additional S8 shot
against vehicles. Be aware that the Ectoplasm Cannon has a 24" range
whereas the Hades Autocannon has a 36" range, meaning that taking
Ectoplasm Cannons will put you in range of weapons such as Psycannons,
multi-meltas, assault cannons and so on. I haven't seen this loadout used as
yet but it is an option to consider. The third loadout is to switch the
autocannons for ectoplasm cannons for free - changing your role from a
tank-hunter/sort of multi-purpose unit to an almost strictly heavy-infantry
hunter. Want to make Paladins cry? As much as a smart Grey Knight player will
put Draigo at the front of their Draigowing, remember that such army lists tend
to have two units of Paladins. Either shoot the unit without Draigo or get
around to the side and shoot their flanks. The Forgefiend will make its points
back very quickly as long as you score some hits - again though, be careful to
remember that the 24" range of your guns will subsequently put you in
psycannon range. The last option is triple ectoplasm cannons, and it will make
Terminator-heavy armies weep - this goes without saying. And the funny thing
about the Ectoplasm Cannons and their Gets Hot! rule? The Forgefiend has to
roll a 1, then fail a 4+ save, then fail a 5+ invulnerable save, then fail a 5+
It Will Not Die roll. Yeah. 



Now that I've got the options out of the way, we can talk about application -
my personal recommendation is the standard Hades Autocannon loadout. The
36" range means you can stay out of range of most anti-tank weaponry, and
you will provide a punishing amount of firepower. It also means the Forgefiend
can provide a decent threat to fliers - 8 shots will only average 1 or 2 hits,
but S8 means it can easily punch a hole in most fliers. The Ectoplasm Cannons
are devastating, but prone to scatter and will make the Forgefiend far more
vulnerable to short-ranged anti-tank weaponry. You also invite being charged by
fast moving units that may not necessarily destroy it but tie it up for most of
the game - 2 WS3 I3 S6 AP- attacks per turn won't get you anywhere quickly. The
joy of the Forgefiend is that you can magnetize the arms - and as the points
costs are free, you can quite readily switch its guns out for other guns once
you've seen what your opponent is using. This won't work at tournaments
however, or any game where you are required to clearly mark down what weapons
it is using. In friendly games though, most opponents either won't notice or
won't care. I would avoid sticking the third ectoplasm cannon on the Forgefiend
for modelling reasons, though it is certainly a good idea for gaming purposes
as you can always either use it with the gun or not. The Forgefiend's role will
change based on what you equip it for - my general advice is to keep it well
away from enemy units and minimize any potential damage it may receive through
LoS-blocking terrain. A very good choice overall - like the Maulerfiend
however, it requires finesse. 

 

 

 

 Forgefiend: Whoever decided

that CSM needed Daemon Dino-bots - well, thanks! Forge Fiends come with a pair
of Hades Autocannons, which throw out an absurd amount of dakka (that's 8 S8
AP4 pinning shots a turn, making Psyflmen Dreadnoughts blush). Furthermore,
they can be upgraded with 3 S8 plasma cannons for free: two replacing the gun
arms and the last one (for +25 pts) replacing the damn thing's
face! Deepstriking termies will piss themselves, especially Draigo's shiny
dozen when faced with 3 instant-death plasma blasts a turn. On top of this,
like all other daemon engines it has a 5++, fear, IWND and Daemon Forge, which
comes in very handy with this guy.

Alternative Opinion: Opponent
fielding fliers? Pop a Forgefiend down with a pair of Hades Autocannons. 8
Shots give it excellent odds of hitting - even if it's only on sixes - and it's
Strength of 8 will cut though almost any flier (including the Stormraven) as if
it were made of paper mache. This machine can be incredibly versatile over it's
cousin with the right setup. Allying with Chaos Daemons for a cheap Tzeentch
Divination psyker turns this bad boys into monsters. Rerolling to hit is HUGE
at BS 3, and against enemy fliers. Pop Daemon forge that turn and watch the
enemy cry as its fliers implode.

Maulerfiend: The
other Daemon Dino-bot. What the Forge Fiend is to shooting, the Mauler Fiend is
to close combat. Comes with a pair of power fists and magma cutters, which deal
a meltabomb hit that can strike non-vehicle models, too! This big mother can
also move at 12", ignore difficult terrain and has Fleet on top of that!
Lasher tendrils reduce Dreadnoughts/Dreadknights/Terminators to A1. You use
this thing to run down other vehicles, charge isolated infiltrator squads, bust
open fortifications and close combat backup should things not go just as
planned. Also has all the Daemon Engine tricks of 5++, fear, IWND and
Daemon Forge. Maulerfiends are not designed to hunt infantry. Lasher tendrils
or not, even a single powerfist/thunderhammer attack will put it down. Take
two, keep the magma cutters and use it for its intended purpose, charging and
destroying vehicles and fortifications. If nothing else, the Dinobot tagteam
will draw considerable fire away from your other units. Many players will
struggle to stay cool under pressure in the presence of two Maulerfiends
charging headlong into their vehicles.

Alternative Opinion:
You really shouldn't take lasher tendrils as this guy's main focus should be
vehicle destroying and not tarpitting which is done for cheaper by a Helbrute.

 

 

 

 

[the jeske]

 

8 Shots give it excellent odds of hitting - even if it's only on sixes - and it's

 

Strength of 8 will cut though almost any flier (including the Stormraven) as if

 

it were made of paper mache.

hmm that is not accurate . 8 shots hiting on +6 , do not wreck av12 on avarge roll.That is not counting jinking.

[minigun762]

I find Maulers to be the better overall choice.

#1 Much cheaper then Forges.

#2 Provide reliable Anti AV13+

#3 Pair well with Spawn, Bikers or Rhino squads.

#4 Very fast with a high threat range.

[A D-B]

I find Maulers to be the better overall choice.

#1 Much cheaper then Forges.

#2 Provide reliable Anti AV13+

#3 Pair well with Spawn, Bikers or Rhino squads.

#4 Very fast with a high threat range.

 

I agree, but I like the Mauler head a bit less than the EctoForger one. So a few of our campaign folks have an 'Ectoplasma head that doesn't shoot ectoplasma' policy. Because that head is freaking rad.

 

"They're just plasma coils. Yeah, connected to the thing's power generator. Naw, it's not a gun, I swear."

[derpasaurus]

I've found my forgefiend is usually either a complete Billy Badass or a total waste of points. There's no "oh he did ok," he'll either hit on or about averages and pin stuff/break small tanks/instant death warlords and be a total nuisance for my opponent all game long, or he'll glance something once and die in a massive fireball, wounding way more than s3 should be capable of.

I like it though, haha. It works well in a list with lots of armor saturation so your opponent has to decide what to shoot at. It doesn't need cover because probably the best you'll get is equal to it's invuln save. It has a 3 foot range with 8 shots or a 2 foot range with up to 3 s8 ap2 blast templates. And as others have said, it's more durable than it's stats suggest. I barely ever make IWND saves, but my invuln percentage is waay above average. Super annoying for my opponent to pen with a lascannon and watch me make a 5+ on open ground.

Also, it looks AWESOME.

[Brother Eleysium]

Well, that about sums it up. Very disappointing to hear that the Forgefiend is kind of a bust, I definitely like the model much better than the Mauler, but oh well they're both sweet.

Thanks for all the help guys, and any future thoughts are definitely welcome.

[A D-B]

Well, that about sums it up. Very disappointing to hear that the Forgefiend is kind of a bust, I definitely like the model much better than the Mauler, but oh well they're both sweet.

Thanks for all the help guys, and any future thoughts are definitely welcome.

I wouldn't call it a bust, dude. Double Hades cannons and an ectoplasma cannon not only looks unbelievably cool, it's pretty killy.

[Brother Eleysium]

Well, that about sums it up. Very disappointing to hear that the Forgefiend is kind of a bust, I definitely like the model much better than the Mauler, but oh well they're both sweet.

Thanks for all the help guys, and any future thoughts are definitely welcome.

I wouldn't call it a bust, dude. Double Hades cannons and an ectoplasma cannon not only looks unbelievably cool, it's pretty killy.

I hear yah, I just don't want to sink too many points into something that doesn't return them. Maybe I'll just buy two of them!!!

[minigun762]

 

 

I find Maulers to be the better overall choice.

#1 Much cheaper then Forges.

#2 Provide reliable Anti AV13+

#3 Pair well with Spawn, Bikers or Rhino squads.

#4 Very fast with a high threat range.

I agree, but I like the Mauler head a bit less than the EctoForger one. So a few of our campaign folks have an 'Ectoplasma head that doesn't shoot ectoplasma' policy. Because that head is freaking rad.

 

"They're just plasma coils. Yeah, connected to the thing's power generator. Naw, it's not a gun, I swear."

I agree 100%. I don't see it being an issue because the Mauler doesn't have access to any kind of range weapon, so no chance for any confusion.

[A D-B]

 

 

 

I find Maulers to be the better overall choice.

#1 Much cheaper then Forges.

#2 Provide reliable Anti AV13+

#3 Pair well with Spawn, Bikers or Rhino squads.

#4 Very fast with a high threat range.

I agree, but I like the Mauler head a bit less than the EctoForger one. So a few of our campaign folks have an 'Ectoplasma head that doesn't shoot ectoplasma' policy. Because that head is freaking rad.

 

"They're just plasma coils. Yeah, connected to the thing's power generator. Naw, it's not a gun, I swear."

I agree 100%. I don't see it being an issue because the Mauler doesn't have access to any kind of range weapon, so no chance for any confusion.

 

"Well you see, Aaron, the reason your lame joke doesn't work is because..."

 

Keep talking, Minigun. I'll kill your Warsmith in the Black Legion series. Just keep talking...

[Scribe]

I quite like maulerfiends in bunches, as its almost impossible to use it wrong.

 

'I move fast, assault far, and can only punch things...seems like a good back fielder!' :p

 

Its cheap, and in groups can really put the fear of the Gods in someone.

[d@n]

I have been on the receiving end of 3 forge fiends, being supported my a war smith and they can desamate whole army's by them selves in a few turns

[Brother Eleysium]

I have been on the receiving end of 3 forge fiends, being supported my a war smith and they can desamate whole army's by them selves in a few turns

Okay, so maybe I should just buy a few and be done with it.

[Gumo9]

I decided to go against current wisdom and run an ectoplasma fiend.

 

I have only used it in one game so far but it was the man of the match. It soaked up an enormous amount of fire from my Tau opponent (ended the game with only one wound down) and took out bunches of kroot, fire warriors and a few battle suits.

 

Must admit that i fancy running a maulerfiend now as well.

 

G

[SRSFACE]

Every time I've ran it, something has gone horribly wrong. There was one game I assaulted a Dark Eldar venom only for one of the Wyches inside to snap fire a Haywire Grenade that OF COURSE hit and OF COURSE rolled penetrating hit and OF COURSE caused it to explode and OF COURSE I failed my daemon save.

 

That said, Maulerfiends are pretty good if you run them in pairs.

 

The Forgefiend, I just don't really care for it. Every time I've tried to run mine, it's underperformed pretty badly. For the same point cost you could just roll with a Defiler and those things are more reliably awesome.

 

I will say, even if it's underperforming on the table, it's one of the coolest looking models in all of 6e. It's also super easy to magnetize it to run all the different options between both fiend types.

[Kythnos]

 

You come with a pair of magma-cutters

base - each one provides an automatic hit resolved at S8 AP1 I1 Armourbane as

long as the Maulerfiend hits with at least one attack (the magma cutter attacks

are resolved against an already hit model, so they are less useful against

single-wound models), and double that per magma cutter if all of your attacks

hit.

 

This part in the linked tactic post above actually confused me. Is the common way to play this, that each magama cutter grants the bonus hit(s) separately, leading to 2/4 bonus hits, if you hit with some or all of your attacks? So far I always assumed, that they were counted together as one piece of wargear, so that you'd only receive 1/2 bonus attacks.

[minigun762]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I find Maulers to be the better overall choice.

#1 Much cheaper then Forges.

#2 Provide reliable Anti AV13+

#3 Pair well with Spawn, Bikers or Rhino squads.

#4 Very fast with a high threat range.

I agree, but I like the Mauler head a bit less than the EctoForger one. So a few of our campaign folks have an 'Ectoplasma head that doesn't shoot ectoplasma' policy. Because that head is freaking rad.

 

"They're just plasma coils. Yeah, connected to the thing's power generator. Naw, it's not a gun, I swear."

I agree 100%. I don't see it being an issue because the Mauler doesn't have access to any kind of range weapon, so no chance for any confusion.

"Well you see, Aaron, the reason your lame joke doesn't work is because..."

 

Keep talking, Minigun. I'll kill your Warsmith in the Black Legion series. Just keep talking...

... Warsmith Bob charges out from his trench, promptly trips over razor wire,  falling onto an unexploded artillery shell and becomes a post-human fountain of metal shards and red gore.  He is not missed ...

[Xenith]

This part in the linked tactic post above actually confused me. Is the common way to play this, that each magama cutter grants the bonus hit(s) separately, leading to 2/4 bonus hits, if you hit with some or all of your attacks? So far I always assumed, that they were counted together as one piece of wargear, so that you'd only receive 1/2 bonus attacks.

 

The magma cutter clarification is in the FAQ released last April. They count as a single weapon,  granting 1 or 2 bonus attacks.

[Emperors Immortals]

I run 2 maulers against IG using my MoK fluff list, twice theyve wrecked a Russ squadron and bogged a flank, the other times they were taken down with krak missiles and vendettas

 

I thoroughly recommend them.

[Kythnos]

 

This part in the linked tactic post above actually confused me. Is the common way to play this, that each magama cutter grants the bonus hit(s) separately, leading to 2/4 bonus hits, if you hit with some or all of your attacks? So far I always assumed, that they were counted together as one piece of wargear, so that you'd only receive 1/2 bonus attacks.

 

The magma cutter clarification is in the FAQ released last April. They count as a single weapon,  granting 1 or 2 bonus attacks.

 

Thanks, good to know I played it the right way.

[Captain Idaho]

Every time I've ran it, something has gone horribly wrong. There was one game I assaulted a Dark Eldar venom only for one of the Wyches inside to snap fire a Haywire Grenade that OF COURSE hit and OF COURSE rolled penetrating hit and OF COURSE caused it to explode and OF COURSE I failed my daemon save.

 

That said, Maulerfiends are pretty good if you run them in pairs.

 

The Forgefiend, I just don't really care for it. Every time I've tried to run mine, it's underperformed pretty badly. For the same point cost you could just roll with a Defiler and those things are more reliably awesome.

 

I will say, even if it's underperforming on the table, it's one of the coolest looking models in all of 6e. It's also super easy to magnetize it to run all the different options between both fiend types.

You can't overwatch using grenades. Throwing grenades stipulates you can opt to throw a grenade in the shooting phase instead of shooting a weapon.

 

 

Maulerfiends are one of those choices that are great when they charge, rubbish when the opponent makes it his business to kill it. So take 2 and other assault options. Don't rely on a Maulerfiend to perform your assaults exclusively and wonder why it gets shot dead! (Not directed at anyone in particular)

[nurglez]

My forgefiend has done amazingly well, and then rubbish. It has all the downsides of a vehicle, yet it can damage any unit on the table. Bs3 is annoying, but I like to use it alongside autocannon havocs. I think the forgefiend is slightly over costed but still like it.

 

I've never tried tripple plasma, as I like something that can hit flyers/flying mcs.