Forgefiend and Maulerfiend, are they worth it?

[Captain Idaho]

Would a Forgefiend enjoy the benefits of a Herald of Tzeentch perhaps? Divination of course.

[totgeboren]

 

This part in the linked tactic post above actually confused me. Is the common way to play this, that each magama cutter grants the bonus hit(s) separately, leading to 2/4 bonus hits, if you hit with some or all of your attacks? So far I always assumed, that they were counted together as one piece of wargear, so that you'd only receive 1/2 bonus attacks.

 

The magma cutter clarification is in the FAQ released last April. They count as a single weapon,  granting 1 or 2 bonus attacks.

 

However, the lasher tendrils removes two attacks, not one like they said in the article. The Maulerfiend entry says it may replace the magma cutters with two sets of tendrils, and the rules for tendrils clearly says each set of tendrils remove one attack.

 

I am still out on if the tendrils are worth the cost, but removing two attacks from enemy monsters and powerfists and such makes it a bit more versatile, and much more survivable in close combat.

[nurglez]

Both fiends benefit from daemon allies, I've had my maulerfiend charge a squad of deathwing terminators and win thanks to a 4++ save and them being str 3 (enfeebled powerfists are funny, striking at str 6).

[SRSFACE]

 

Every time I've ran it, something has gone horribly wrong. There was one game I assaulted a Dark Eldar venom only for one of the Wyches inside to snap fire a Haywire Grenade that OF COURSE hit and OF COURSE rolled penetrating hit and OF COURSE caused it to explode and OF COURSE I failed my daemon save.

 

That said, Maulerfiends are pretty good if you run them in pairs.

 

The Forgefiend, I just don't really care for it. Every time I've tried to run mine, it's underperformed pretty badly. For the same point cost you could just roll with a Defiler and those things are more reliably awesome.

 

I will say, even if it's underperforming on the table, it's one of the coolest looking models in all of 6e. It's also super easy to magnetize it to run all the different options between both fiend types.

You can't overwatch using grenades. Throwing grenades stipulates you can opt to throw a grenade in the shooting phase instead of shooting a weapon.

In the rules for Overwatch, it says "An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover saves and so on." Meaning that one guy can still throw a grenade, or at least that's how most people I know have interpreted this particular issue.

[minigun762]

Would a Forgefiend enjoy the benefits of a Herald of Tzeentch perhaps? Divination of course.

 

Very much so, suddenly 4 hits become 6 hits on average, a fairly drastic increase in power especially when coupled with daemonforge.

 

HadesFiends actually have a fairly strong niche role as AA, just below a BaleDrake.

[Captain Idaho]

The grenade rules are explicit though; you fire in replacement of another ranged weapon in the shooting phase.

 

If it didn't say "shooting phase" then it would be in reference to any shooting situation.

[Brother Eleysium]

Thanks guys, all great responses. I will definitely be purchasing some Maulerfiends and including them in my army.

[Urauloth]

The thing that puts me off fiends of both varieties is the AV12. A model that size (and thus cost in terms of money and time) having an AV on par with a dreadnought is just kind of disappointing, epsecially looking at ironclads and furiosos which manage to cross the impervious-to-krak-grenades threshold while being half the size.

 

Ideally if I'm going to invest in a model that big I'd like it to be a centrepiece for my army, but you can't do that with a fiend - you prettymuch have to run them in packs.

[Scribe]

Thing is, they are fast.

 

I ran 2 last night, supported by a Daemons - Daemon Prince with book. The unit just roved, found what they wanted to find, and beat it up.

 

Yeah, Imperials get nice toys, and yeah they get more options, but there's nothing really wrong with a Maulerfiend (in groups).

[SRSFACE]

The grenade rules are explicit though; you fire in replacement of another ranged weapon in the shooting phase.

 

If it didn't say "shooting phase" then it would be in reference to any shooting situation.

But it is a shooting phase, simply resolved in the assault phase on the enemy's turn. It actually says so in the book, verbatim, "resolved like a normal shooting phase (albeit one resolved in the enemy's assault phase)" And also specifically says "and so on" when talking about all the rules you have to obey. I assume this means all the normal rules for attacking in the shooting phase, and one of the things you can do in the shooting phase is have a single guy lob a grenade. The additional overwatch restriction would mean it'd have to be something that was a single target and not a blast template, so like a krak grenade or in the case of what happened to me, a haywire grenade.

 

I think we'll have to leave this up to us agreeing to disagree. It's how our little corner of the world plays it. Maybe they'll clarify it further in a future FAQ, who knows.

[the jeske]

The overwatch doesn't create a shoting phase . It lets you do shoting attacks at a charging unit . Ergo any rule that asks to check for a shoting phase will or will not work durning overwatch.

[Chaeron]

When they first came out, I naturally pre-ordered and made it into an Ectofiend and had forgot to magnetise - but I'm not made that mistake with my MaulerForge this time!

[Sception]

I'm building my own forge/mauler to swap out options via magnets.  But I haven't tried it out in any configuration yet.  My revised force is still in just its starting stages and I don't have enough done to bother with 'accessory' options like fiends yet.  And even then, the one I have will probably have to wait until I can pick up a second, since the overwhelming majority of advice about fiends of any stripe seems to be 'run them in pairs'.

 

That said, optimal or not, I look forward to running a daemonforge list led by a warpsmith, with a couple shooty dreads, some mechanized troop squads, a couple drakes, a couple dakkafiends, maybe a defiler or allied soul grinder, and whatever else I can fit in.  I also look forward to running a pair of maulers as support for a rushy army with a couple rhinos, some bikes or spawn, maybe some allied fast daemons or a land raider, and so on.

 

Fiends may not be great, but they do seem like decent support options whether you're going for a shooty or assaulty list.  I've complained a lot about the fiends, but it isn't because I think they're bad in and of themselves.  Maybe not great (the forge costs too much compared to its firepower, and the mauler doesn't have quite enough attacks, for either to be considered 'great'), but certainly not bad.  Mostly my complaints about them are on a conceptual level.  I'm bitter that, with the gaping holes CSMs had and still have in 6e particularly when it comes to transport options, that the designers decided to give us two new AV12 walkers, when we had two of those already, and really didn't need any more.  That the existing two were left kinda baddish doesn't help my opinion on the fiends, either.

[Iron_Within]

I'm building my own forge/mauler to swap out options via magnets.  But I haven't tried it out in any configuration yet.  My revised force is still in just its starting stages and I don't have enough done to bother with 'accessory' options like fiends yet.  And even then, the one I have will probably have to wait until I can pick up a second, since the overwhelming majority of advice about fiends of any stripe seems to be 'run them in pairs'.

 

Malisteen I did that and it's worked really well. One thing though is if you're fixing the back legs (which is what I did), you'll need something on the base to raise it for when it's in Maulerfiend mode as the legs of the Forgefiend are too high to get a good fiend look. For mine I made it look like it had just smashed down a wall, which doubles up nicely as the Forgefiend being behind some ruins.

 

[Sception]

I went for something a little different, fixing the mauler arms and stance, and adding shoulder mounts for the big guns for when I field it as a forgefiend.  I need to figure out something else cool looking I can mount there when it's a mauler (maybe the cutters/tendrils?  Maybe some daemonic wings to be suggestive of its speed?  Not sure), but mostly I'm happy enough with it, and it let me use some of the spare bits, the middle pair of legs in particular, on a drake conversion.  If I'm being honest, getting those middle legs, and the fiends back armor shell, for my drake was the reason I bought the kit at all, rigging up a functional multipurpose fiend out of the remaining bits is just an afterthought to justify the expense to myself.

 

Anyway, I'm also not a fan of the default mauler head, so when I'm not running a plasma mouthed fiend, mine gets the spare giant bat head from a fantasy zombie dragon kit I bought (also for the previously mentioned drake).

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z142/Malisteen/Black%20Legion/Fiend01_zps2ce1d672.jpg

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z142/Malisteen/Black%20Legion/Fiend04_zpscb740ceb.jpg

[Tenebris]

They are indeed fun units to use but I have to revise my statement from some time ago. The Forgefiend has yet to make back his points in the past seven games, I have fielded it every time but it is sad how I had to rely on my Obliterators to pour fire. As for the Maulerfiend, it is good, great in a pair but a pair means one unit of Obliterators less in my army which of late is a big no no for me. The Maulerfiend has a ton of potential yet he struggles first because he is a big fire magnet and second because by now most players have learned what those two units do and tend to either ignore them as long as they can or blast them apart very quickly. At the end of the day, they will sit on my shelf and gather dust. 

[Scribe]

Support them.

 

I dont know your stance on allies, but 2 x Mauler, with 2 x Daemon MC (Lord of Change + Daemon Prince) provides heaps of trouble. :D

[Iron_Within]

Seconded, 2 Maulerfiends on their own are scary but perfectly dealable with. Two Fiends and their mates are a different matter. It's caught more than one opponent off guard when a unit of Bikes and Spawn with either Biker Lords and Sorc's or mounted on their respective steeds to hurtle across the battlefield. 

 

Has anyone tried Sorcerer backup for fiends? What works best?

[Scribe]

I think really anything that can aid in the issue of AV12. They are plenty fast, they will arrive unless popped fast, so things that help them get there such as Invisibility, or the Grimoire, and then following up with some punch of their own (the Sorc or in my case MC's) can get something done.

[40kChrista]

As some of the others have pointed out...  running either type in pairs, and a Divination Herald to babysit are awesome.   Forgive if I'm wrong... I don't have my books in front of me, but wouldn't the Grimoire of True Names boost the invul of  a Fiend since it has the Demon USR?  Or it wouldn't be worth it because Fiends can't be taken in squadrons?

[Iron_Within]

I went for something a little different, fixing the mauler arms and stance, and adding shoulder mounts for the big guns for when I field it as a forgefiend.  I need to figure out something else cool looking I can mount there when it's a mauler (maybe the cutters/tendrils?  Maybe some daemonic wings to be suggestive of its speed?  Not sure), but mostly I'm happy enough with it, and it let me use some of the spare bits, the middle pair of legs in particular, on a drake conversion.  If I'm being honest, getting those middle legs, and the fiends back armor shell, for my drake was the reason I bought the kit at all, rigging up a functional multipurpose fiend out of the remaining bits is just an afterthought to justify the expense to myself.

 

Anyway, I'm also not a fan of the default mauler head, so when I'm not running a plasma mouthed fiend, mine gets the spare giant bat head from a fantasy zombie dragon kit I bought (also for the previously mentioned drake).

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z142/Malisteen/Black%20Legion/Fiend01_zps2ce1d672.jpg

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z142/Malisteen/Black%20Legion/Fiend04_zpscb740ceb.jpg

That looks awesome, I might do that on my next one. Where on the fiend do the guns attach? I cannot make it out from the pics

[Sception]

I cut away at the normal snubby gun arms until they sort of fit on the mauler's shoulder pads. I still need to use some greenstuff to make that stuff fit together better, and I have to repla e the magnets I used with larger, stronger ones. The current magnets don't hold the guns well enough. And like I said, I have to come up with something to attach when using it as a mauler, so it doesn't just have snubby nubs sticking up off its shoulders for no reason.

 

But none of that will happen any time soon. There's a lot of other stuff in line to be done first, like havoks, bikes, chosen, terminators, rhinos, drakes, etc etc.

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z142/Malisteen/Black%20Legion/Fiend03_zps9663441f.jpg