Views on viability of Grav Weapons?

[Custodian Athiair]

Guys with the new codex and more specifically new weapons, what are the views on grav weapons viability for us?

I'm asking in general because I will be expanding my Salamanders with at least two new Tactical Marine sets. My original plan was double flamer them in rhinos - something ive always wanted to do.

 

However the battle rep showed grav weapons being rather useful, and im especially interested by the salvo rules...

 

This would be in a general collection so i could still tailor my armies for different opposition but i'm thinking for when CSM come to down or anything similar they could be useful.

 

But I am torn between having to either get more tac squads (or dev centurions) to field the grav weapons or not get my double flamer tac squads. So i thought it best to ask the best guys i knew about the problem - thats you guys

 

Thanks in advance :)

[minigun762]

In my eyes, Salvo rule means that they are only worthwhile on Relentless or S&P models. Anything else is too limited by the short range of the weapons and being penalized for movement

[Tiger9gamer]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279032-grav-rifle-bikers/

 

This topic is talking about the Gravs on bikers. read through it if your interested.

[Captain Idaho]

Grav weapons might have merit on a Tactical squad, but I'd probably go Plasma gun.

 

Now, on bikes, it becomes a weapon system that gets around the limited range and gives you maximum shots all the time. Ideally, being on bikes gives them flexibility too since they can switch to twin linked bolters when fighting troops who aren't Grav weapon's ideal targets.

 

AND bikers come in cheaper than Centurions. Rumoured points costs indicate I can get 5 Bikers with 2 Grav rifles and a combi-Grav for 130pts. This is very affordable and gives us genuine speed on the table particularly for when we play those mean old Tau.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I think that grav weapons have a place on Tac and Sternguard squads in drop pods. They provide an on-target, close-range delivery system for killing high-priority targets like Riptides or oblits. Additionally, a Tac Squad intended for a static role -- say, manning an ADL -- can actually expect to utilise the full range and rate of fire of a salvo weapon.

[minigun762]

I think that grav weapons have a place on Tac and Sternguard squads in drop pods. They provide an on-target, close-range delivery system for killing high-priority targets like Riptides or oblits. Additionally, a Tac Squad intended for a static role -- say, manning an ADL -- can actually expect to utilise the full range and rate of fire of a salvo weapon.

Doesn't plasma already provide that short range anti MC & TEQ weapon?

I guess if Grav is cheaper it may be more tempting.

[Ishagu]

Grav has great rate of fire and laughs at Wraith Knights and Riptides....

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

I think that grav weapons have a place on Tac and Sternguard squads in drop pods. They provide an on-target, close-range delivery system for killing high-priority targets like Riptides or oblits. Additionally, a Tac Squad intended for a static role -- say, manning an ADL -- can actually expect to utilise the full range and rate of fire of a salvo weapon.

Doesn't plasma already provide that short range anti MC & TEQ weapon?

I guess if Grav is cheaper it may be more tempting.

 

Yes, but when you're getting as close as pods allow you to safely get, plasma's greater range is no longer an issue; they put out the same number of shots per weapon; you don't have to worry about losing Marines to overheating (an expensive concern with Sternguard); and grav guns don't care about target Toughness, which is the downfall of plasma against things like Wraithlords, Wraithknights, and to a lesser extent Riptides.  In fact, I'd say that the (re)introduction of the grav gun in this codex was a conscious design decision explicitly intended to give us a hard counter to the new models that are giving, or will give, everyone headaches. . . namely Centurions and Riptides.

[Captain Idaho]

Agreed. It's the exact reason I'm keen on getting 2 units of Space Marine bikers with grav weapons.

[Custodian Athiair]

I hadnt considered bikers, Ive never really considered gettinh any, mainly because Ive never seen any Salamnder bikers.

But it isnt a bad thought, even if they suit the flamer design even more as bikers :P

[WarriorFish]

Agreed, grav is going to be a very useful weapon in our armoury but it is held back somewhat by its range. Platforms that enable you to move and shoot without penalty are the obvious best places for it so you can always get the most from it. Bikes are going to be my preferred unit I reckon

Otherwise a unit that closes in rapidly with the enemy (eg Drop Pods) could mitigate this easily enough, but you'd of course have the concern of being very close to the enemy. This is pretty standard Marine tactics anyway, so we should all be familiar with that. Given its target of big nasties and heavily armoured foes though probably best to use it in bulk with other complementary weaponry, so Sternguard would be a great unit for them.

[Grey Mage]

Grav has great rate of fire and laughs at Wraith Knights and Riptides....

I dont get this as much vs the Wraithknight- sure, wounding on a 3+ is nice, but poisoned weapons/hellfire rounds were already wounding on static numbers and doing a good job of it- but I rarely see people singing their praises. So whats the deal?

[Ishagu]

Grav Ignores the armor save. Poisoned weapons don't...

[WarriorFish]

AP2 makes all the difference, grav weapons are going to be a brilliant counter to MCs.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Yup, AP2 is why it's awesome.

[Tiger9gamer]

I like the idea of the immobilized results on vehicles. Have a biker squad charge right after it for auto hits with krack and melta weapons!

[Seahawk]

Grav weapons generally are completely useless. 

 

However! I have found a useful combination for a Captain/Chapter Master loadout:

 

Thunder Hammer

Grav Pistol

Storm Shield

Jump Pack

Artificer Armor (for general survivability)

 

This guy is a monstrous creature hunter. Zap 'em with the pistol to bring their Initiative down to 1, then charge in swinging. Definitely useful against Wraithknights/Lords, Dreadknights, Tyrants, Carnifexes, etc. The only problem is being insta-gibbed. While that can be solved with the Shield Eternal, it also makes you lose a weapon, whereas the regular storm shield doesn't.

[WarriorFish]

I haven't got my hands on the codex yet, is there something we're missing about grav?

[DarkGuard]

I think grav rifles don't look much better than plasma guns. However, grav cannons on Centurion Devastators might be well worth it. They'll always get 5 shots, with re-rolls to wound. Frag missiles can help with a bad match up against poor armour units. However, they would be pricy.

[Disruptor_fe404]

I'd probably only use grav-guns on a bike squad, since Relentless is awesome. They'd murder Wraithknights and Riptides something fierce, and are also still the best choice against a Tyrant with Iron Arm (this last consideration is very important to me).

[Ishagu]

I would never equip them on tacticals but they might have a use on Sternguard.

They are best on bikers and of course Centurians.

[SillyDreadnought]

I might end up putting one or two combi-gravs in a Sternguard squad, or a grav pistol on an Assault Squad/Vanguard Squard sergeant, but I can't see myself taking them on my Tactical Squads. Salvo plus their already low range pretty much eliminates them from my line infantry, where the Plasma Gun works better with the Bolters. On Bikers, I'd give it some consideration over the melta guns they typically carry.

 

 

I just find the range and Salvo rule underwhelming for a weapon designed to kill big monsters. If you fluff up your shots, the model carrying the weapon is likely to get mulched in return.

[DarkGuard]

I don't see why you'd put combi-gravs on Sternguard ahead of combi-plasmas. Combi-plasmas are as good against heavy infantry as combi-gravs, and more versatile as well. Range and shot wise, you'd likely only shoot the combis when in rapid fire range, and you'll likely be moving into that range.

 

I think gravs will be best on bikes and Centurions. I do wonder about their viability on Centurions, considering their short range, but when in range they'll be nasty.

[Custodian Athiair]

Anybody thinking about how to run the bikers? I plan on getting some after these ideas, however seeing as bikers come in sets of three. I am not sure whether to run two squads of three each with two grav-guns. Or one squad of 6 to have some extra wounds to make sure the grav-guns survive.

 

Opinions?

[Ishagu]

I am going to run 2 squads of 3.

 

That's 18 grav shots between them. No MC/Termies/Paladins/Oblits unit will survive a turn of shooting.

 

We just have to be careful not to get the bikers killed.

 

It might also be a good idea to run 2 squads of 5, that way we can shield the grav riders :-)