Views on viability of Grav Weapons?

[Brother Xeones]

 

 

Grav pistols, on the other hand, have a much more subtle use, and that is making sure we always strike first in combat. .

I like this idea.

Just remember that Concussive only works on the model who suffers an unsaved wound. Thus, most of the time, unless you are changing a unit of multi-wound models the model you zap with your spiffy pistol is just going to disappear before combat and you're not gaining any benefit in CC. Even if you manage to wound a multi-wound model with a grav weapon, you are only gaining an initiative benefit over that one wounded model. Everyone else in the unit is still striking at their usual initiative step. It'll really only come into play when charging monstrous creatures where you have but one multi-wound model you are engaging so you know what model is taking the grav hit, and you want to make sure that they are striking last.

 

It's not completely worthless, it's just situational as in such an instance you'd probably do better to just shoot the MC off the board with grav bikers or Centurions rather than taking a couple of pistol shots and risking your models in CC.

 

That's not to say that grav pistols are bad. Thinning out a few 3+ or 2+ models before you charge can still be worth the investment and gaining AP2 while avoiding the Gets Hot from plasma on your valuable sergeants and similar is still great.

[Calnus]

Ap2 makes Grav awesome against heavy infantry of all types.  Really, wounding on save rather than toughness is just like having a S5-7 gun for most things, other than the Wraith units or Iron Arm'ed MCs.

 

I think almost any marine list I put together will have at least 1 grav biker unit, just to hard counter MCs.  Its cheap, maneuverable, can be scoring, and if the other guy doesn't bring its choice target, I can always just bolter and charge something squishy. 

 

I think over time, Grav will be treated like Melta now.  You want at least some in any balanced list, on the off chance that someone brings MCs, just like you want at least some melta in any balanced list in case someone brings AV14.  It won't be used every game to its full extent, but when you need it, it will be perfect for the job.

[minigun762]

As far as the Grav Pistols, while it isn't helpful to stun single wound units, you're still killing a MEQ or Terminator with that shot.

Against an MC, stripping a wound and going first isn't a horrible bonus.

[Zombie P]

I have been looking into playing with the new cheaper vanguard. And... I have come up with an idea, grav pistols are actually great. They exactly twice as good as plasma pistols in every situation but 5+/6+ save enemies. 

 

Double the shots, no get hot and possibly wounding better than the plasma pistol. And, a unit of 5 vanguard with grav pistols comes in at 170 points. puts out 10 grav shots at 12" and then charges in with 20 attacks. I like this a lot, and I think in anything but top end games this is a fun and useful unit. 

 

As for grav pistols in general, I think if you ever thought of taking a plasma pistol, take a grav pistol. Thats just how its going to be now ;)

 

ZP

[minigun762]

I have been looking into playing with the new cheaper vanguard. And... I have come up with an idea, grav pistols are actually great. They exactly twice as good as plasma pistols in every situation but 5+/6+ save enemies.

Double the shots, no get hot and possibly wounding better than the plasma pistol. And, a unit of 5 vanguard with grav pistols comes in at 170 points. puts out 10 grav shots at 12" and then charges in with 20 attacks. I like this a lot, and I think in anything but top end games this is a fun and useful unit.

As for grav pistols in general, I think if you ever thought of taking a plasma pistol, take a grav pistol. Thats just how its going to be now

ZP

I believe they're still 1 shot weapons, the same as the PP.

That said, they are safer than PPs while still being able to wound the targets that are most difficult to kill. Concussive is fun as well.

[Zombie P]

Now I feel like a fool, just re read that. Silly boy! ok, well, that vanguard plan is up the swanny. 

 

My comment about vs plasma pistols still stands though.

 

ZP

[Office temp]

Grav guns are indeed good, but since the current prevalence of Zeno armies lately plasma gives the advantage of instant death against most of them (multi wound irelavant and no FNP)

[Azash]

Grav weapons are effective up to about armor 4. That plays out well right now in a xeno heavy environment since tau and necron are effectively 4+ armies. They are especially effective against Eldar with a smattering of high toughness units, 3+ saves, and a large block of 4+.

 

I think as C:SM and grav weapons dealt head on with high toughness and high armor targets it will be interesting to see where orks and nids take the game.

Just as spamming MC's is no longer viable I think those dexes might insure spamming grav will not be a viable tactic either.

 

Not sure if that means plasma will make a come back.

[Captain Idaho]

I'd actually enjoy that. The biggest problem for my Marines is usually stuff that Grav is designed to combat. I haven't inundated my list with such weapons (actually my plannes bikers are the only units to use them and they have twin linked bolters too) so I'd find my list opposed by less problems.

 

Of course I feel Wave Serpents will still be prevalent with Eldar players since they can hang back and avoid the short range grav weapons.

[Azash]

I'd actually enjoy that. The biggest problem for my Marines is usually stuff that Grav is designed to combat. I haven't inundated my list with such weapons (actually my plannes bikers are the only units to use them and they have twin linked bolters too) so I'd find my list opposed by less problems.

 

Of course I feel Wave Serpents will still be prevalent with Eldar players since they can hang back and avoid the short range grav weapons.

 

To your last point and this is a little off topic this is personally why I don't want to leave home without my Land Raider. Most Wave Serpent builds will run scatter lasers and that means they can't even hurt the Land Raider. However those two TL LC's can really put a hurt on Wave Serpents. So you force the Eldar player to think about keeping that shield instead of firing it because penning an armor 12 with an LC your opponent has to assume you will be able to pen with each cannon each turn.

 

Throw a MM on the LR and you will really keep them back which is not a bad thing since that keeps his troops out of position.

[Captain Idaho]

Agreed. It's the combined arms approach of a super tank they have to get close to kill and fast moving grav weapons that'll defeat these tricky Eldar.

[Zombie P]

Entirely off topic, it might be an idea to put some cheap vanguard in there (if you have spare points), so that if he does get close and blow it up, there is a nice assaulty unit just desperate to get some pay back.

 

ZP

[Black Templar 307th Comp.]

TL:DR the above, just adding my two Bolter Shells.

 

Grav weapons are situational at best, but they're good at what they do.  Any time you can give them to relentless whatevers is good.  I like them against Tau's big guns, because they wound on 2 or 3 and ignore the armor save.  The volume of their shots makes them superior to plasma in that instance.  I like them on bikes, because you always have the option to dump to regular bolters against less than ideal Grav targets (AV 5+ xenos and the like).

[Atlantic]

I play tested the new book on Saturday night.  My buddy and I hadn't played 40k in awhile and built a couple of lists and went at it.

 

I outfitted two tactical squads with Grav Rifles.

 

Squad 1 - Grav Gun, Multi Melta, Power Fist, 

Squad 2 - Grav Gun, Multi Melta, Power Fist, Grav Pistol

 

I'm not sure this is an optimal loadout, but I was extremely pleased with how the squads performed.

 

My buddy ran Iron Hands paired with a Grey Knight Terminator Detachment (Lib, 2 squads of 8 terms).

 

The mission was the relic.  He deep struck one of his squads of gk's between the relic and the bulk of my army.  He had a tactical squad behind him waiting to snatch it and jump back in the rhino and take off.

 

My two tactical squads shredded those terminators.  I killed 4 of them in one turn with the grav weapons alone - the bolters and other stuff snuck a few wounds in as well.  The next turn I wiped them out.  

 

It was pretty crazy as I remember how much trouble those jerks and their stupid halberds gave me in the last edition.  It was really nice to be able to handle them - with run of the mill troopers.  

[Azash]

I think though you would have been able to do the same thing in that instance with Plasma Gun's on the tactical squads.

 

I have run games with my 3x Grav Cannon/Grav Amp centurions and I have round them to be survivable and they create a death bubble. Any heavy hitting unit the opponent has is an easy target for the Centurions to kill off in one round. So the opponent then has to keep them 30" away from the centurions and pull back and try to whittle them down from a distance.

This in turn makes things like Razorbacks with Las Cannons, devastators, etc so much more effective as you get in a long range fight which for the most part our codex is really good at winning those fights.

 

Honestly in my first game I was able to park my centurions 4" from the exact center of the board and they completely dominated the game. There presence deterred anything that was a threat to my tactical squads from getting in that 30" kill bubble. A whole host of missiles took on anything that wanted to stay outside that bubble.