DIY chapter creation questions

[ShasVa]

Despite not being active with the hobby for a while, I've recently got the bug again. My DIY chapter interest has also revived, and I wanted to ask some questions/thoughts concerning the viability of my idea.

 

1. The fan-made chapter called the Star Lords from the 40k fan wiki site has given me inspiration; a rogue chapter that is not corrupted by Chaos, yet fights to bring humanity back into the original ideology of the Emperor (Imperial Truth, advanced tech, etc). They also tolerate and work with certain xenos (Tau and Eldar) and boast awesome technological armaments (Bolters with rail rounds like "Section 8", hi-tech Power Armour). Would the Star Lords themselves be viable as a DIY chapter, in both lore and game?
2. I always wanted my DIY chapters to be technologically advanced. Not so much on the Necrontyr/Old Ones level, but a mix of DAoT and Tau technology. Still with the human element of course, so probably not a lot of hovering tanks.
3. Belief wise, my chapter would be very similar to the Star Lords; the Imperium is not what it should be; not as the Emperor wanted it to be. They definitely do not like the Inquisition or the Echlessiarchy, believing both organisations to be corrupt and out for themselves. My chapter would fight them where it is strategically possible to do so. They would also fight against Chaos and any hostile xenos like the Orks, Tyranids, and Dark Eldar.
4. Not sure if I would give my chapter psychic ability. I was thinking I could make them more technology-focussed, but not to the point of obsession like the Iron Hands. I had an idea that the chapter figured out how to "atrophy" psychic potential in their recruits to zero, rendering them virtually unseen in the Warp. To combat enemy Psykers they would have developed several anti-Warp weapons; the Dimension Forge mentioned in Inquisitor Valeria's entry in the GK Codex was inspiration for this idea.
5. Where would they be located in the galaxy? I was thinking somewhere in the "Galactic North-East" originally. This may put them into conflict with the Necrons and possibly the Tyranids; both of which show resilience against hi-tech armies.
6. Game and lore wise, the leader of this chapter; dubbed the Supreme Commander (because they don't follow the Codex), would wear a Tau battlesuit modified by the chapter's techno-smiths. He would be melee-focussed (with a User-Strength AP2 weapon). I envision him as having the following statline:

WS7 (would be willing to make it WS6)

BS5

S5

T5 (but no Eternal Warrior; he is powerful, but not immortal)

W3

I5

A3

LD10

SV2+ (and 3++ due to the Storm Shield Generator)

 

So to sum up, I'm wondering if it would be viable - both lore wise and game wise, to come up with a chapter that...

 

• is rogue but loyal to humanity/the Emperor
• has a level of technology equivalent to DAoT+Tau
• be willing to fight with non-hostile xenos like Tau and Eldar IF it was necessary

[Messor]

My DIY philosophy tends to be something along the lines of: begin everything you want, and if you can justify it, success. Willingness to compromise is, of course, always a huge plus.

 

I'm not familiar with the Star Lords, nor with balancing gameplay, but lore wise I'd say you've got a challenging idea. So I'd start by lining up what needs to be justified, for example: Why do they have advanced tech (aka: What would cause their techpriests/marines to abandon the strictures laid down by Mars? How have they acquired/implemented xenos tech, Eldar in particular? What drove them to advance technologically in the first place?)? What factors contribute to the state of their psykers (with the Emperor as their example, and being an extremely powerful psyker)?

 

I don't think it is possible to strategically fight the eccesiarchy. I'm inclined to think that the less they know about your Chapter the better, because their resources far exceed those of a single Chapter and they can (and have) put down Astartes alarmingly quick when they have a mind to. I would agree that somewhere in the east serves them best if they'll be adapting/adopting any Tau technology.

[ShasVa]

Why do they have advanced technology?
Why is relatively simple; their belief is that science and technology, and the understanding of both, are key to survival, rather than superstition and meaningless prayer. The chapter is also aware (though how I haven't thought up yet) that the Imperial Creed was born from the Book of Lorgar, who was a key player in the Horus Heresy. Thus they see the Echlessiarchy as hypocrites.

 

The chapter's technosmiths (they scrapped the use of religious terms such as "priests") are among the most intelligent of the chapter. Like the chapter's entirety, they too believe that science and technology can reunite humanity if they have the will to accept it. Nevertheless, even the technosmiths follow some rules. Psychic technology study is permitted, but only for defensive purposes, and even then under strict watch. Anything Chaos related is to be left alone contained in anti-Warp safeguards or outright destroyed. Eldar technology has been studied by the chapter, and the technosmiths work hard to reverse-engineer such technology to work with scientific means rather than use of the Warp.

 

As stated, the chapter's belief in humanity being truly reunited under the banner of advanced technology and scientific understanding is their drive to be more advanced than their corrupt Imperial brethren.

 

What factors contribute to their view of Psykers?

I was thinking that the chapter could follow the Emperor's Nikaea decree in this regard. They would also add to it, hence the idea of atrophying psychic potential. They would not be truly soulless, but would have so little Warp presence that they are barely "visible" to Warp entities. This could be a part of who they are; either believing that Psykers were the reason for the fall of humanity before the Emperor's time (Age of Strife era), or that their use is just too great a risk for humanity.

[Messor]

Good foundation. Now that I think about, your Chapter's beliefs seem like they would lead to a much more interesting relationship with the AdMech than the Ecclesiarchy. The AdMech is responsible for the training of techmarines, and they go through all kinds of oaths and whatnot, pretty much like regular space marine indoctrination. Assuming they start off like any other Chapter, the event(s) that change their perspective will be fun to see, but I think most of all a low scale conflict with the Mechanicus (mostly because I don't think they're the kind of organization a Chapter can really 'fight' either). I'd imagine the Chapter's machine cult being declared heretek, and while the Mechanicus would expect to cripple them by cutting off supplies, the use of advanced/improved technology diminishes the Chapter's need for those supplies. You've come up with a good concept.

[ShasVa]

The ??? chapter would have a particular strategy for dealing with whole worlds:

1. Planetary bombardment of key enemy locations.
2. Secondary aerial bombardment with Stormeagles, Thunderhawks, etc.
3. Ground force landing to sweep away any remaining or persistent enemies.

The chapter does have Chaplains of sorts. They are perhaps the most anti-religious of the chapter, openly showing their aversion towards the Imperial Creed, Chaos worship, and any form of what they call "meaningless worship". Regardless, the Chaplains do look after the mental well-being of the chapter marines; they're essentially the chapter's "warrior psychologists".

 

All recruits within the chapter go through the Atrophication Process, which reduces their psychic potential to zero. Thus the chapter does not possess a Librarius whatsoever. The recruits are openly told the reason for this; that it was the Emperor himself who decreed at the Council of Nikaea that Psykers present too dangerous a threat to humanity.

 

The wargear of the ??? is vast, advanced, and regularly tested by recruits and the ???'s techno-smiths. Among these include Bolter weapons that function like railguns, "cold" plasma weapons that are lethal yet do not overheat, heat weapons which can burn down even Necrons to ash, and various anti-Warp devices that can do things from nullifying Psyker powers to dematerializing Daemons. With the few encounters they have had with the ??? so far, the Imperium has deduced that the ??? possess a level of technology that mankind would have achieved had the Age of Strife not occurred.

[Ecritter]

Okay time to chime in.

 

1.  No psykers means no warp travel .... look in C:Tau.

2.  Most chapters will work with Tau, and maybe Eldar.

3.  Imperial indoctrination teaches that Imperial weapons and tactics are superior (even if they're not) so what changed things for your chapter?

4.  What makes them rogue?

[FunkyMonkey]

IMHO, the chances of your chapter escaping the AdMech's greed for knowledge are going to be pretty low.  I think that especially with your chapter being a renegade chapter, the AdMech's going to be calling for their own tech crusades against it to take whatever your chapter has, and that might also bring you to blows with chapters like the Iron Hands and Black Templars (the latter more for your willingness to be rational).  That would probably be a very important key aspect about your chapter and its history - it's frequent conflict with the AdMech, that is. 

[ShasVa]

Okay time to chime in.

 

1.  No psykers means no warp travel .... look in C:Tau.

2.  Most chapters will work with Tau, and maybe Eldar.

3.  Imperial indoctrination teaches that Imperial weapons and tactics are superior (even if they're not) so what changed things for your chapter?

4.  What makes them rogue?

 

1. I haven't figured that out yet. Maybe some kind of "space-time folding" or "phase jumping" technology?
2. Understood.
3. What changed is that the ??? figured out the Imperial doctrine is false, and that staying with stagnant technology constantly will only lead to their demise.
4. What makes them rogue is that they know things that the tyrants within the Imperium don't want the human populace to know. The truth behind the Imperial Creed, the nature of advanced technology, a means to travel that doesn't involve the Warp, a way to cancel out a soul's Warp presence...and more.

[FunkyMonkey]

Honestly, I don't know if it is possible to accomplish that last bit of #4.  Part of the thing that makes humans legitimately human is their overwhelming influence in the Warp.  I mean, 3 of the 4 major Chaos gods came from humans (Nurgle with the Black Death, Khorne with the general warfare of the Middle Ages, and Tzeentch with the rise of realpolitik from the Renaissance to real-life modern era).  I know there are Blanks/Nulls/Pariahs, and all, but those can be seen to a degree (depending on what your definition of humanity is) as being not exactly human due to the purposeful introduction and non-human origins of the Pariah gene.

 

I'd like to know more about the Auretian Technocracy (or was is Interex?) that dedicated themselves to fighting Chaos and seeing if it allowed them to hide their warp presence.  

 

I'm just so concerned about this one particular facet because in my opinion, one of the biggest overarching and unifying themes of Warhammer 40K is that there exists darkness inside all of us (humans), such that it cannot be removed but only suppressed through immense focus and dedication to the better parts of humanity.  In this way, Warhammer 40K, for all of its grimdarkness, seems to be very much humanistic and all about the man and the soul, something that can be straight up transplanted in any setting in any time period, not relying on the fact that it takes place 38,000 years in the future.

[Ecritter]

You had my support up to the point you started talking about making a technology that no other race currently has.  Some lines must be drawn.  If you're using a means to travel long distances other then the warp, everyone else will to and thus 40k falls.

[Demus Ragnok]

You had my support up to the point you started talking about making a technology that no other race currently has.  Some lines must be drawn.  If you're using a means to travel long distances other then the warp, everyone else will to and thus 40k falls.

Do Eldar ships use the webway or the warp?

[FunkyMonkey]

Eldar ships use webway.  So do Dark Eldar ships.  So do Necron ships, evidently, with their Dolmen Gates (darn you 5th Ed and your radical lore changes).

 

Humanity ships could have been using it too if the Magnus didn't interrupt the Emperor or the Emperor had told Magnus in advance what he was doing in the Himalayas.  (I mean, Magnus, of all primarchs should have been privy to the Emperor's projects because of his warp expertise)

[ShasVa]

I am aware of the technology known as the Gellar Field. I'm just skeptical on its ability to protect, given that the ones powering the Primarch gestation pods failed (Argel Tal's fault? bad design?). Though they lack Psykers of any kind, it seems the Tau have traded speed for safety in regards to their travel methods. If I continue to have the ??? atrophied of psychic potential, the Tau method could be a good route to go, or I could say they understand Gellar Field tech better, or maybe even both?

The "Kraken Bolt" ammunition, in both lore and game stats, seems just as good as the concept of a "Rail Bolter", and could be used in place of coming up with something new. Someone else's IA on here mentioned a chapter that keeps to using explosive/projectile weapons, and I decided to go down that route; if anything, to keep the chapter more human and less "Necro-Tau Astartes".

 

As far as technology goes for the ??? overall, the vast majority of it will be human. Lowering the power and danger of plasma tech is nothing new. In any case, I'll be looking into 40k technology, so I'll come back when I have something more concrete.

[ShasVa]

Apologies for the double-post, but it had to be so.

 

I'm willing to and have been making some major alterations that I think will work just how I want, yet would stay within the confines of acceptable lore. Keep in mind though that the following is still a work-in-progress:

 

1. The chapter will be called the TECHNO RAVENS.
2. They will be loyal to the Imperium (more-so to the Emperor and mankind itself, but still).
3. They will have disdain for bodies like the Echlessiarchy, which gets more obvious as you go up in the ranks.
4. They will get their gene-seed from the Raptors chapter.
5. They will have been created during the 24th Founding (M39 wasn't it?).
6. The purposes of their founding was to combat the Necrons and, due to the advanced technological nature of that race, the chapter themselves has been afforded their own advanced technology.
7. They are willing to form temporary "cease-fires" with races like the Tau and Eldar (both of whom don't like the Necrons either) when facing a common enemy. Having said that, the Techno Ravens remain alert for any sign of treachery from their "allies".
8. Haven't yet decided if they will have Psykers. For the purposes of long-distance travel they will still use Navigators at least.

I hope that rekindles some faith in readers now. I know I was probably treading dangerous waters when I suggested they be a radical force that somehow evades Imperial detection.

[FunkyMonkey]

Points 5 and 6 are rather incompatible.  Though exact accounts vary with the codex, lore generally puts first contact with the Necrons late in the 41 Millennium, much like how first contact with the Tyranids also was late in the 41st Millennium.  I think the Necrons' Index Xenos establishes first contact as M41 by the Sisters of Battle on Sanctuary 101.

 

As a result, with first contact in the 41st Millennium, your chapter couldn't have been founded in the 24th Founding to fight Necrons.  You might want to try being founded in the latest, most recent founding, and I'm not even sure if that was late enough into the 41st Millennium.  Besides, chapters are rarely founded to counter a specific threat.  It'd be more plausible if you said they were founded to meet the increasing threat of the many new first encounters like Tyranids, Tau, and Necrons

[Messor]

Additionally, I'd recommend against using 'Techno' in the name. It comes with a lot of pop culture influence that's hard to ignore, and is especially strange against a "Raptor successor" background. As FunkyMonkey mentioned, the circumstances of the foundings rarely gave any clues about threats followed them, so another justification would be better suited for why they have this advanced tech.

[ShasVa]

The Raptors (and in turn Raven Guard) were chosen as progenitors because they fitted in as close as possible to what I was after. The Salamanders were my second choice, but I'm aware that they rarely had successors, if ever. Last resort would be the Ultramarines, but they're soooooo cliche! Another extreme could have been a "gene-seed combination", but I think that is frowned upon in DIY creation.

 

Name wise I've got a few other ideas. Feel free to critique them:

• Cyber Ravens
• Cyber Wing
• Azura Wing (play on the word "Azure")

Expanding upon an earlier point, they could be founded to adapt and fight against more advanced races, not just the Necrons. I would still have them afforded their own "advanced" technology for the task. This could suggest a partnership of sorts with the Mechanicus (although I'm concerned about the AdMech's disdain for new/reverse-engineered things).

 

Thoughts?

 

---------

1. Name: Star Ravens
2. Homeworld: Azura (Galactic North-East)
3. Progenitor: Raptors
4. Founding: Unknown, sometime in M41
5. Colours: "drab-grey" (the kind used in some types of camouflage) and black
6. Strength: Assumed maximum

 

Lore Wise

• Their disdain for Emperor worship will remain. They will only fight alongside the Echlessiarchy in the most extreme and dire of circumstances (a rare event in itself).
• The purpose of their founding was to have a technologically "advanced" Astartes chapter fight other advanced Xenos races (Necrons are one of them). Thus are the Star Ravens afforded permission to use tech most other chapters may not possess.
• They have few Psykers, but still use Navigators for long-distance Warp travel.

 

Game Wise

• All Boltguns use Kraken Ammunition (30" S4 AP4 RF). Bolt Pistols remain unchanged. Unsure on Heavy Bolters.
• All Plasma weapons have lower Strength (usually S6) but lose the negative Gets Hot! rule.
• Will try to find a justification to upgrade Chainswords to AP5.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I am aware of the technology known as the Gellar Field. I'm just skeptical on its ability to protect, given that the ones powering the Primarch gestation pods failed (Argel Tal's fault? bad design?). Though they lack Psykers of any kind, it seems the Tau have traded speed for safety in regards to their travel methods. If I continue to have the ??? atrophied of psychic potential, the Tau method could be a good route to go, or I could say they understand Gellar Field tech better, or maybe even both?

I understand your desire to change things and make your chapter unique, but the Gellar field has been protecting Imperial ships since the Great Crusade kicked off. Its only big failure has been more because of the Warp being, well, the Warp, rather than some huge glaring design flaw.

[ShasVa]

They will have Gellar Fields. No doubt about it!

 

Painting wise I'd want to paint them with the Luna Wolves scheme. Simple "white and black" seems easy enough.

 

Also need justification for the following:

• safer but less powerful Plasma weapons (better understanding? desire for safety of users?)
• AP5 Chainswords (access to better materials in production of said weapon?)
• the chapter descending from loyalist Luna Wolves gene-seed (concept atm, may not be final)

Game wise, not much would change from what is set out in the 6E Space Marines Codex. There will be some, as below, but keep in mind its all still a concept at this time:

• Devastators can purchase Suspensor Webs (Heavy becomes Assault at cost of cutting range by half)
• Vehicular Assault Cannons will be of the Kheres pattern (Heavy 6 instead of Heavy 4) 

[Ecritter]

In game terms its all about give and take.  You're wanting better weps and gear ... what are you willing to give up?

[ShasVa]

In game terms its all about give and take.  You're wanting better weps and gear ... what are you willing to give up?

I'd be willing to give up Psykers entirely, so that'd mean no Librarians (although from a fluff point, the chapter would still use Navigators). I had an idea for an anti-technology power that would function similar to the Neuroweb System Jammer (a piece of Tau wargear), but this could be explained as a piece of "high tech wargear" for the chapter (a relic of theirs perhaps?).

 

From a modeling/painting view, I could give up Scouts too. Although the "Scout" squads from HH that wear Power Armour are of interest (remember how I said the chapter isn't blindly-obedient to the Codex?). They do lose a rule or two, but I'd be sticking them in good cover regardless.

 

So at the moment, I'd be willing to give up the following (more may follow):

- Librarians

- Scouts

[Brother Captain Andrew]

The biggest issue I see is how does your chapter produce such magnificent tech. As a renegade chapter you are.going to be running at marines malevolence levels of scavenging. The best thing I can see to "fix" this is some sort of alliance with the tau or other Advanced alien race. I like the concept and some additional fleshing out is gonna be a great foundation for an IA.

[ShasVa]

The biggest issue I see is how does your chapter produce such magnificent tech. As a renegade chapter you are.going to be running at marines malevolence levels of scavenging. The best thing I can see to "fix" this is some sort of alliance with the tau or other Advanced alien race. I like the concept and some additional fleshing out is gonna be a great foundation for an IA.

 

But I thought having alliances with "filthy disgusting xenos species" (not that Tau really fall into the literal meaning of that category) was oh-so against Imperial code, blah blah etc? But then again, so would technological-innovation (studying Tau tech to discover a way to create an Imperial counterpart). So I can't win either way, can I?

[Messor]

No, not really. If you're already renegade, an under the table alliance with the Tau can't make things worse, and the same goes for advanced tech. If you're trying maintain a loyalist image, those things will quickly get the Chapter censored.

[Quozzo]

With all the advanced technology, understanding of science, hatred towards the Ecclesiarch, allegiances with xeno, disregard of the codex and religious practices. At what point are Space Marines not Space Marines?