Captain Idaho Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I think it's an understatement to say I love my Honour Guard; ever since I took them to a tournament and they annihilated entire armies almost by themselves. I've developed a strong understanding of their potential and weaknesses over the years but with the advent of a new Codex it's time to hit the refresh button and see what our options are and how to get the best out of them. They're cheaper now, so much so that they really do fit into lists easier. We have the usual requirements of a delivery system, which can make using assault units an investment that requires special thought as a wasteful unit is going to hurt. A Chapter Master isn't so much of a tax now as he just got a serious boost with access to superior wargear and stat boosts. With the cheaper Honour Guard you do end up overall saving points this edition. Not to mention the Orbital Bombardment can do a hell of a lot of damage to start off a game (best use it earlier as you'll want to assault later). Negatives are the usual problems launching assaults and needing to ensure you get the most out of your Land Raider. Another small problem is you can't have a Relic blade on your Chapter Champion, though this is a minor problem. It also seems auxiliary grenade launchers have disappeared from the Codex now so drop pods are slightly less desirable than before. So does anyone want to discuss builds and strategy so we can cover everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Carnelian Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I just feel uncomfortable pouring over 200 points into a six or seven man unit that has no invulnerable saves. I personally prefer command squads as they can all take storm shields. They just have a higher survivability rate in my eyes. But how would you run Honor Guard now? I am interested particularly in what you think of using a Stormraven to deliver them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Captain Idaho, since you seem to be the wise on command squads/honour guards I wonder if you have any experience with the Legion command squads or any suggestions about how to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 Seahawk is a pioneer of Legion of the Damned, as I haven't had any points spare for stuff like that! You don't have to pay over 200pts for Honour Guard. I plan on 5 with Banner and no upgrades. This costs a meagre 160pts. I'm tempted to add a 6th so I can get a power axe into the squad, as the rest are good at killing other stuff, not armour 2+ but it's good to get some coverage just in case. That's only going to be 185pts for 6 models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 that's it? Wow, that's cheaper than I thought! What about the Chapter master, though? If I wanted him in the frey as a sort of "blender" I would give him a regular set of Artificer armor, a Lightning claw and that Rampage chainsword. That would be 6 attacks on the charge (4 base, 1 for charge, 1 for specialist weapon) plus, if outnumbered, D3 extra. With hatred, your Chaptermaster can put out as many as 9 attacks by himself before anyone else! if you want AP2 though, switch the lightning claw for a power fist for 10 extra points! I would name him "Blenderious Maximus!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 What models and kits do you guys use to make your honour guard? I don't have many models extravagant enough to be able to pull off that title.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excubitor Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I use robed DA veterans for my Honour Guard - only robes in my force! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickeh Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 What models and kits do you guys use to make your honour guard? I don't have many models extravagant enough to be able to pull off that title.... I'm thinking of a mash up between the sternguard, vanguard and sanguinary guard kits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 So I came up with an idea that has Chapter Master Blenderious and a squad of 5 Honor guard. Chapter master: Artificer armor, Lightning claw, Teeth of Terra-200pts Honor guard squad: 4 Guard, 4 Power Axes, Champion w/ Thunder hammer, Banner of Emperor-215pts Land Raider-250pts Total: 665pts Wow this is an expensive unit. I honestly think that maybe going with this is going to be only for a higher point value (say 2,500pts) but, lets look at what it brings on the charge... Chapter master's 6 attacks at str6 AP3 INT 5, plus D3 if his squad is outnumbered. (so 6-9 attacks (he could solo a tac squad with this)) 4 honor guard's bring 16 str5 AP2 INT 1 Champion's 4 str8 AP2 hits at INT 1. So basically this is a deathstar unit. I'm thinking about using it, but what benefits would it have over regular assault terminators? For example Chaplain: Grav Pistol, Infernius blade-160pts Terminator squad with 2 lightning claws, three TH/SS (including sarge)-215pts Land Raider Crusader-250pts Here, you got hatred coming from the Chaplain who is putting out four str7 AP2 attacks (plus one on from the pistol for concussion) 8 lightning claws that strike at INT 4 with re-rolls for wounds and 9 TH/SS Hammer strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 im guessing the chapter master isnt a requirement anymore then? i was going to use khan on foot with them, furious charge and hit and run HG FTW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Chapter Master is still a requirement GC08, I don't see why you would have thought differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 It is so expensive to have the Banner of the Emperor Ascendant though. Cheaper than a Chaplain of course, but still! I suppose, when I think about it, I can get the squad for the same points as I used to with that Standard ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I'm thinking that since you need a Chapter Master to unlock the Honor Guard, I would keep him as cheap as possible: Arty armor and Relic Blade - that will compliment the Honor Guard quite nicely and comes in at 175 points. No options other than a Chapter Banner for the Honor Guard unit - especially the SotEA. It is just way too expensive. You can get almost three more Honor Guard for that price and I think you would get more milage out of the extra bodies. When it comes to Honor Guard, I really think that less bling is more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Absolutely Bannus.The cheaper the better. I've been running three honor guard with a relic blade champion and banner. My chapter master simply had a relic blade and storm shield. Of course i'll have to make some tweaks as champions can't take relic blades anymore (boo!). My crazed axeman will simply switch places with my current champion. What people have to remember is that honor guard are not meant to go toe to toe with other races's cc specialists. They are meant to plow through units that are weaker in cc. So if you take too many HG, you are wasting points. Five will probably be my max for a while. Right now I am trying to figure out a moderately priced loadout for the master. I'm thinking artificer armor with storm shield and burning blade, or the relic shield with relic blade. I'm leaning more towards relic shield because I tend to put him in front to tank ap2/1 shots. My chapter master will do this even better due to IH tactics. As for deployment I use a drop pod. In my lgs we play with a decent amount of city terrain. My plan is to drop down turn one into a ruin nearby their target so that next turn I can assault. I've used this to root out back field support units with a good amount of success. It helps that the pod tends to land on target nearly all the time ;) My favorite moments are when I am able to deploy right beneath my opponent's unit in a multi level ruin, blocking his los! Has happened on numerous occasions! :D Once I have enough points to play larger games, i'll be running them in a raven. Land raider is probably a better choice as you can assault on turn 2. Earliest you can assault from a raven is turn 3 if you are lucky. However, I'm having too much fun playing a planetary assault army, which means no tanks for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 I'm avoiding points for Relics just now, as I agree with bannus that less is more. My Chapter Master would probably go Relic Blade, Storm Shield and Articifer armour for 190pts. Expensive but survivable and offensive. I have been tempted by the Teeth of Terra mind. For 10pts more than I get D3 attacks extra attacks against anything that out numbers the Honour Guard, which is most things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 The only upgrade I would consider is the thunder hammer for the Chapter Champion, and only if you really want to risk him being able to ID enemy characters. With 2+ armour though I suppose he can shrug off most hits and then use that thing. Otherwise, bare bones as always I say. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I understand that with Honor Guard less is more, and I agree with that sentiment. However, I don't agree with the same idea for the Chapter Master. Not only is he a beatstick character, he also gives up a victory point -- two in kill point missions -- so keeping him alive should be tantamount. Splurge on him, I say. I'm planning on using one eventually with my drop pod army that's basically Lysander -- artificer armor, Shield Eternal, and a thunder hammer. He can take lascannons and railguns to the face without blinking and grind any opponent into the dirt. As a sidenote, I had also considered a more killy Master, with arty armor, grav pistol, and the Burning Blade. That's six attacks on the charge, and if you get a wound on the target with the grav pistol first, they're Concussed and you don't have to worry about being out-Initiative'd with your big S7 AP2 sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 "Look out, sir!" is all he needs. Besides, beatstick? Heck, the whole unit is a beatstick! That is its job. If something comes up against the unit that can seriously challenge a barebones Chapter Master, then throw the Champion at it. The rest of the unit will mop up around the duel. BTW, I think I would add the storm shield to the Chapter Master as well. For deployment: Probably a Stormraven - as ugly as that thing is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 The Raven has its advantages, sure, but I'm still a fan of the Land Raider. It's easier to hit, sure, but it's much harder to kill. Besides, in games against fellow C:SM players, the Raven has now met its match: the Hunter. Ceramite Plating discards extra melta dice, but regular Armorbane don't give a :cuss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Is it worth building the champion to "tank" challenges while the Master kills the rank and file or do you flip that notion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Is it worth building the champion to "tank" challenges while the Master kills the rank and file or do you flip that notion? He can't really tank them though; the only wargear options the Champ gets is a thunder hammer, nothing to improve his survivability (like a storm shield), and he must take any Challenges (the "Honor or Death" rule). If the Master is prowling around with the Honor Guard, you can either build him killy to rampage through everything while the Champ hopes he's not fighting a Monstrous Creature, or build him tough for when the Champ goes down so that he can tank challenges and leave the killing to the Honor Guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Yep, the Champ has to take the challenges until he dies, so the Chapter Master can soak up the AP2 hits of strength 7 or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 And as far as being a beat stick unit, I disagree. Honor guard take some finesse, they aren't like hammernators that can be thrown at nearly any problem. Like I said before, you need to use honor guard against things that won't ignore their armor. So that leaves out monstrous creatures, terminators, centurions, genestealers, etc. I agree with DEF, although I'm more moderate with how many points I'm willing to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Oh, I'm not advocating dumping 400 points into a single model or anything ridiculous like that. In fact, I'm advocating no more than one Relic per character. Either the Eternal Shield and a thunder hammer, or the Burning Blade and a grav pistol. After arty armor, both price out in the low 200's, which is enough for Lysander anyway (who is the gold standard for "is a giant hammer, hard as nails, not more than a Land Raider in points"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Good points, I missed the forced challenges, didn't know loyalist had those issues. In that case, I'm tempted by a simple Maul for the Champion simply because it's always useful and concussive has some value. I imagine axes are the best choice for the rest of the squad since 2+ will bounce swords and claws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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