Chaos Undivided?

[Adeptus-Alaska]

ok, so I was looking thru the Dex and I did not see anything to support an undivided army, as I have never cracked a Chaos dex open before I'm lost. Am I missing something?

 

A few other Questions

 

1. How would one go About building an Iron Warriors force?

 

2. I didn't see an entry for an Aspiring Champ???

[Scribe]

They are doing away with Undivided as a named concept. Its 4 Gods or All of the Gods, but never 'Chaos as an Entity'.

 

Not sure why, but you can search it, I think Aaron commented on it here (or some other forum).

 

1. With 2 x CSM+, Oblits, Vinds, allied to either Guard, or black legion for more Ordinance.

 

2. The old low level character? Gone, long long ago. Aspiring Champs are squad leaders.

[Bryan Blaire]

Well, there really isn't an "undivided" Chaos God, so you'd pretty much have to venerate all the gods equally. Chances are any given warrior in a warband may revere/venerate one god, while another venerates a different god. As long as no one god has the predominant position of worship within the warband, the band itself would be "undivided."

 

I think this is actually shown some in Angel Exterminatus (some of the Iron Warriors seem to be shown as directly falling under the sway of one god, but it doesn't dominate the Legion, like Khorne for the World Eaters, etc).

 

1. Chaos Lord, Warpsmith, Chaos Space Marines, Chosen, Chaos Terminators, Helbrutes, Bikers, Raptors, Havocs, possibly some Obliterators, non-possessed Vehicles would be likely choices IMO

 

2. Aspiring Champions are entries in units, not an HQ. If you want to use one as an HQ, he would have to be a Chaos Lord.

[Kol Saresk]

Well, there really isn't an "undivided" Chaos God, so you'd pretty much have to venerate all the gods equally. Chances are any given warrior in a warband may revere/venerate one god, while another venerates a different god. As long as no one god has the predominant position of worship within the warband, the band itself would be "undivided."

True. I believe in the "Lorgar/Perturabo Alignment" thread, a quote was brought up. In the older fluff(before 4th Edition), there were some who worshiped the entirety of Chaos Undivided as a single entity though. But that has since changed.

[Wade Garrett]

How old is "Lord of the Night"?

 

That had a Chaos Space Marine offering human sacrifice to Chaos Undivided to be shielded from psyker scrying.

 

In the Horus Heresy "Legion" there's a temple to Chaos in it's four aspects of decay, wrath, ecstasy, and change.

 

And that's just off the top of my head, Undivided may be phased out of the Codex but it's alive and well in the fluff.

 

As for the rest:

Heldrakes with hazard stripes.

[Kol Saresk]

How old is "Lord of the Night"?

2005

 

That had a Chaos Space Marine offering human sacrifice to Chaos Undivided to be shielded from psyker scrying.

Not exactly. Zso Sahaal was being watched over by a daemon without his knowledge, that daemon protected him from the scrying. He killed the astropath so the astropath's scream would carry word of his existence to the other Night Lords. This would attract the Warband of Krieg Acerbus to the planet.

In the Horus Heresy "Legion" there's a temple to Chaos in it's four aspects of decay, wrath, ecstasy, and change.

Chaos Undivided hasn't been removed. This Horus Heresy Legion is the example. If Undivided has four aspects, then those who worship it will invariably look to one aspect over the rest in certain endeavors. Those who go to war, will look towards the Primirdial Annihilator in its aspect as death. For good health, mortality. For good fortunes, mutability.

 

Either way, as needs mandate, they will look to one aspect over the other. Chaos Undivided isn't the absence of Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh ad Tzeentch. It is the combining of them. But Chaos Undivided as its own unique, singular being does not exist. It is the combination of those qualities manifested as the Four Dark Gods.

[Scribe]

Yar, and that is the change. There was a time when Chaos Undivided truly was 'Chaos in its undivided nature.' which can either make sense to one, or not. All down to perspective.

[Kol Saresk]

Actually it included that aspect, it wasn't solely that aspect.

 

Actually both views are (or rather were) equally valid.

This is from the 3.5 codex:

 

Men are not given to understand such matters, and the diverse followings of Chaos Undivided worship it in many different forms.

 

In its most literal sense, Chaos Undivided is a pantheon of gods; the four major powers occupying opposing points on a compass. When a follower worships he may direct his tributes to the god most able to answer his pleas. Such a follower may receive the blessings of each of the gods at different times, but is unlikely to gain the favour granted to an individual dedicated wholly to one power. The cultist may also honour the minor spirits of the Warp if he feels they may be able to aid him. [...]

 

Others worship Chaos Undivided as a single entity. They perceive the various powers as merely aspects of one vast, malevolent intelligence which mortals cannot hope to engage on any but the most basic level. These followers may ally themselves with the other powers, but will never give themselves fully to one god, seeking instead to follow a purer form of devotion to Chaos in its unadulterated whole.

 

Another form of worship of Chaos Undivided may be seen in those who look to use Chaos to their own ends, and seek only temporary pacts with the powers. These misguided individuals see their own ambitions as above those of the Chaos powers. This is the ultimate gamble, with but two possible outcomes: daemonhood or damnation.

That aspect is apparently interpreted as I described above. I do not know if that interpretation is correct, but it is the best that I can perceive.

[Wade Garrett]

Kol:

 

I don't have my copy of LoN, but there's a bit where Sahaal has ordered that the refugees flooding into his domain from the upper hive must take the heads of "sinners" if they want to remain in his territory.

 

He looks over their handiwork, and thinks that while Khorne would be pleased by the offerings they shall instead be sacrifices upon the altar of Chaos Undivided.

[RapatoR]

IMO was phrase "chaos undivided" removed for making no sense, it is like saying: "water undivided", "universe undivided" or "air undivided". Those aspects of worship are still alive in the background, it is just matter of replacing "worshipping chaos undivided" with "worshipping chaos".

[Lay]

I think the term was meant to imply that Chaos in its "natural" state is, well, divided.

 

Besides, it has a nice ring to it.

[40kChrista]

Ok...

 

The concept of Chaos Undivided has been going away for awhile now.  Actually because of that I switched to Black Legion from Word Bearers, because to me (and there's the important part... to me) Chaos Undivided isn't about running all 4 marks and icons.  It was about the pantheon of the Chaos Gods.  Not the constant infighting and bickering that they seem prone to all the time now.  Plus I loved my Morale re-rolls!!  Good times.

 

 

1. If your looking to NOT mark your units then VotLW (Veterans of the Long War), Warpsmtih, demon engines, probably an aegis line as well.  The Mark of Nurgle could be a way to represent bionics in units.

 

2. Aspiring Champ in the HQ entries?  You would be right, it's not there anymore, and that was a long time ago.  Aspiring Champs are built into every unit in the current CSM dex.  A lot of people will run them with no upgrades because of the Champion of Chaos rule, or they might give them meltabombs.

[Kol Saresk]

Kol:

 

I don't have my copy of LoN, but there's a bit where Sahaal has ordered that the refugees flooding into his domain from the upper hive must take the heads of "sinners" if they want to remain in his territory.

 

He looks over their handiwork, and thinks that while Khorne would be pleased by the offerings they shall instead be sacrifices upon the altar of Chaos Undivided.

I found your quote. Page 253

 

It was a harvest worthy of the Blood God himself: a mountain of gristle and gore, of gap-toothed grins and severed spines, befitting the brass throne of Khorne.

 

Not that Sahaal would ever offer it as such. No, these stolen skulls would be gifted to no deity, pledged to no metaphysical spirit.

 

There was, after all, no God of Fear.

 

'To the memory of the Night Haunter...' he whispered.

 

EDIT: Now, earlier on when the daemon protects him from the psyker, he reaches the conclusion that he has apparently won the favor of the Dark Gods, whether he cherished it or not. And when he repeats himself on the next page, he says that he had the patronage of Chaos itself. That is on pages 162 and 163.

[the jeske]

It is simple when you are marked [dedicted to one god] you buff your god by what god likes. So spreading disease for nurgle guys , killing for khorn , excess for the slany dudes etc . You buff only your god when you do it and you will get "noticed" only by your god while doing it [am talking about normal dudes ,.not some sort of alfa++ psyker blowing up a planet , that would be noticed by everyone] . Non dedicted dudes can do the same . Khorn is still buffed by killing , even if it is done by an imperial .Which has two sides, one is cool because you can get buffed by many gods , the less cool part is that most of the time the gods are going to be ignoring you unless you are special. Khorn doesn't want to buff you with boons/weapons/protections , only for you to get marked by slanesh and lol at him later. So you do all those crazy things like non dedicted sacrifice or offerings to any god who may want to hear you etc. it is a harder way to get boons , but also kind of a safer. Smaller chance to get spawned and your not turned in to a slave.

[Tenebris]

So Chaos Undivided is more than a pantheon a philosophy, it is the Eightfold Path, it is the truth behind the curtain and the sin of knowledge, the revelation and the secret, it is many things but not a religion as we understand it. Chaos is freedom, ambition, power and glory, it is damnation but also reward, it is the moment when you break your chains, when you dispose of your humanity and when you embrace something so unfathomable that dives you insane but also ecstatic with the knowledge that your destiny is in your OWN hands. 

When a Chaos Space Marine cries For Chaos! across the din of the battlefield he evokes this truth, he utters in words what his eye have seen and what his soul has felt when he opened his mind to the truth for the first time. When marching under the banner of Chaos Undivided one marine does not favor a Dark God in particular way, neither he favors them all, but he is the herald of the truth, the truth of which destiny lies beyond the skein, the truth that follows death, the truth that power and ambition are rewarded, the truth where you as an individual can become a literal god, an immortal, a being of such utter power only if you will it, only if you dare it. 

 

Chaos Undivided is not a religion, it is a philosophy, a philosophy of the self interest, of tangible power and the shattering dread of the ultimate truth. This philosophy teaches a Chaos Marine that if he is ambitious enough he would be rewarded, it teaches him that if he kills with the name of the Dark Gods on his lips he would catch their eye and receive their boon, it teaches him that one day he can become a demigod, a mortal no more, and all this if he only wills it and dares it. 

 

It is also the philosophy of the metaphysical, where reality and dogma shatter, a philosophy that teaches its followers that the laws of physic do not exist, that any laws are artificial, that dogma and ad a closed mind lead your soul to be shattered by the dreaded dream predators. Chaos Undivided is a philosophy that teaches you that you have a soul, teaches you that with your dreams you shape the universe and it teaches you that nothing is impossible, everything can be done if only one dreams it. 

 

That is why a marine bears proudly the Star of Chaos even if he pledged his allegiance to only a variant of this philosophy, perhaps to Nurgle's teachings, it is because once you pass over the skein of reality and you see the vast landscapes of infinite possibilities nothing can ever be the same and everything becomes possible, all that is required is a simple dream. 

[the jeske]

chaos undivided is ,in the non WB version , an old style religion [pagan style] . You worship or do rituals  , knowing that gods exist[duh everyone knows that] , but that worship isn't a 100% way to gain their boons , it just doesn't hurt to try . An undivided dude doing a pre battles ritual is like that. A cult worshiper is more like a Szeptucha [a kind of a slavic witch] doing the same things , but getting better effects.

[Kol Saresk]

So Chaos Undivided is more than a pantheon a philosophy, it is the Eightfold Path, it is the truth behind the curtain and the sin of knowledge, the revelation and the secret, it is many things but not a religion as we understand it. Chaos is freedom, ambition, power and glory, it is damnation but also reward, it is the moment when you break your chains, when you dispose of your humanity and when you embrace something so unfathomable that dives you insane but also ecstatic with the knowledge that your destiny is in your OWN hands.

 

When a Chaos Space Marine cries For Chaos! across the din of the battlefield he evokes this truth, he utters in words what his eye have seen and what his soul has felt when he opened his mind to the truth for the first time. When marching under the banner of Chaos Undivided one marine does not favor a Dark God in particular way, neither he favors them all, but he is the herald of the truth, the truth of which destiny lies beyond the skein, the truth that follows death, the truth that power and ambition are rewarded, the truth where you as an individual can become a literal god, an immortal, a being of such utter power only if you will it, only if you dare it.

 

Chaos Undivided is not a religion, it is a philosophy, a philosophy of the self interest, of tangible power and the shattering dread of the ultimate truth. This philosophy teaches a Chaos Marine that if he is ambitious enough he would be rewarded, it teaches him that if he kills with the name of the Dark Gods on his lips he would catch their eye and receive their boon, it teaches him that one day he can become a demigod, a mortal no more, and all this if he only wills it and dares it.

 

It is also the philosophy of the metaphysical, where reality and dogma shatter, a philosophy that teaches its followers that the laws of physic do not exist, that any laws are artificial, that dogma and ad a closed mind lead your soul to be shattered by the dreaded dream predators. Chaos Undivided is a philosophy that teaches you that you have a soul, teaches you that with your dreams you shape the universe and it teaches you that nothing is impossible, everything can be done if only one dreams it.

 

That is why a marine bears proudly the Star of Chaos even if he pledged his allegiance to only a variant of this philosophy, perhaps to Nurgle's teachings, it is because once you pass over the skein of reality and you see the vast landscapes of infinite possibilities nothing can ever be the same and everything becomes possible, all that is required is a simple dream.

That is a very eloquent way of putting it.