Excessus Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 It clearly says that each primary detachement of your army may include up to four heralds, if your heralds are not in the primary detachement you cannot include four...just one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 The book doesn't specify that said primary detatchment need be from that particular codex. Until it is FAQ'd (which won't be for the next year at the current pace) that is how I interpret their poor design. lol you really need to re-read it man, it clearly states that the primary detachment can take up to four Heralds as a single HQ choice. Like not even worded questionably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyl- Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 If it said "the primary detatchment from this codex" I would agree. As is, the primary detatchment only refers to.. the primary detatchment. Since you get 1 primary detatchment every 2000 points, this reads to me as such. 4 heralds per 2000 points. Perhaps it's not the spirit of the rule, but this is what is printed in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FashaTheDog Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 If it said "the primary detatchment from this codex" I would agree. As is, the primary detatchment only refers to.. the primary detatchment. Since you get 1 primary detatchment every 2000 points, this reads to me as such. 4 heralds per 2000 points. Perhaps it's not the spirit of the rule, but this is what is printed in the book. Page 110 says that you can have a second primary detachment at 2,000 points or more, not every 2,000 points. To nitpick, you get 1-4 Heralds per HQ slot up to 1,999 points or in 2,000 point games and up you can double that. I know I am beating a dead horse here as we all get your point, but that's what dead horses are for! Although if you are playing 4,000 or 6,000 point games, you've likely already told the FOC where to go and what it can do with itself anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnsaviableLegion Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 If your taking Daemons as your main army and CSM as your allies, then you can have four heralds to one HQ... You could do this twice and have Eight heralds if you needed to. At 2000 Pts or more you (can have two primary detachments, or a double FOC if you like) could then have up to 16 heralds. If Daemons are allies you can only have one herald per HQ, as they are an allied detachment and not a primary detachment :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyl- Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Hmm, I think I was a little misunderstood from the start here. Let me retry to make my case from the top. And I'm still willing to admit it's wrong, but the right lawyer could get it through. Each primary detachment <u>in your army</u> may include up to 4 heralds as 1 HQ choice. In my mind, this means that the primary detachment may take the heralds, even if they are played as allies, since it is employing the codex (who's rules are to supersede the BRB's). This means that the primary detachment (chaos space marines) can use one of it's comparatively useless HQ slots to field up to 4 heralds. Though the daemonic instability rule does prevent them from deploying with every single marine unit, they are deployable as independent characters, which can then join a squad in the movement phase. And no I didn't lose sleep to think of this, I thought it within 3 seconds of reading the rule. Also, I've not thoroughly researched it yet, as I've yet to actually use it, but the people I've spoken with about the idea all had the same reaction at first, and then agreed that it does indeed seem possible. edit: it surely wouldn't be the first time an untested rule was a little OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Can't take choices for your Primary Detachment from outside of your Primary Detachment's Codex - pg 109 of the rule book. Appreciate the cleverness of the attempt, tho. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FashaTheDog Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Hmm, I think I was a little misunderstood from the start here. Let me retry to make my case from the top. And I'm still willing to admit it's wrong, but the right lawyer could get it through. Each primary detatchment may include up to 4 heralds as 1 HQ choice. In my mind, this means that the primary detatchment may take the heralds, even if they are played as allies, since it is employing the codex (who's rules are to supercede the BRB's). This means that the primary detatchment (chaos space marines) can use one of it's comparitavely useless HQ slots to field up to 4 heralds. Though the daemonic instability rule does prevent them from deploying with every single marine unit, they are deployable as independant characters, which can then join a squad in the movement phase. And no I didn't lose sleep to think of this, I thought it within 3 seconds of reading the rule. Also, I've not thoroughly researched it yet, as I've yet to actually use it, but the people I've spoken with about the idea all had the same reaction at first, and then agreed that it does indeed seem possible. edit: it surely wouldn't be the first time an untested rule was a little OP Oh, now you're just on an Easter egg hunt . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyl- Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Can't take choices for your Primary Detachment from outside of your Primary Detachment's Codex - pg 109 of the rule book. Appreciate the cleverness of the attempt, tho. I counter with the very bottom right of page 7. Last paragraph. Hmm, I think I was a little misunderstood from the start here. Let me retry to make my case from the top. And I'm still willing to admit it's wrong, but the right lawyer could get it through. Each primary detatchment may include up to 4 heralds as 1 HQ choice. In my mind, this means that the primary detatchment may take the heralds, even if they are played as allies, since it is employing the codex (who's rules are to supercede the BRB's). This means that the primary detatchment (chaos space marines) can use one of it's comparitavely useless HQ slots to field up to 4 heralds. Though the daemonic instability rule does prevent them from deploying with every single marine unit, they are deployable as independant characters, which can then join a squad in the movement phase. And no I didn't lose sleep to think of this, I thought it within 3 seconds of reading the rule. Also, I've not thoroughly researched it yet, as I've yet to actually use it, but the people I've spoken with about the idea all had the same reaction at first, and then agreed that it does indeed seem possible. edit: it surely wouldn't be the first time an untested rule was a little OP Oh, now you're just on an Easter egg hunt . Sadly, it really does come to that due to design flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Allies are never in the Primary Detachment. Are you arguing that you could ally in Plague marines as troops with a Nurgle Lord as well if you have CSM allies?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Can't take choices for your Primary Detachment from outside of your Primary Detachment's Codex - pg 109 of the rule book. Appreciate the cleverness of the attempt, tho. I counter with the very bottom right of page 7. Last paragraph. Hah! Fair point, but in this case, it doesn't really apply - the Codex isn't contradicting the rules here. Rules within Codexes can and should be assumed to be self-referencing, not global. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Anyone else annoyed that Chapter masters are better then chaos lords? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddarKato Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Really annoyed! What drew me to Chaos was having these really awesome lords but it seems like the wolf lords are far more killy and now the chapter masters are just better. Kinda confuses me why a loyalist chapter master is better than a chaos one when the latter one should be backed up by not only several lifetimes of experience but also a pantheon of gods (especially when one of them is the god of bloodshed and violence in general). Pretty much the only thing that makes me wanna switch codex to space wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I've just seen the mary sue chief librarian's rules, I'm really getting the feeling Ahriman, the Thousand sons and chaos are seen as a bad joke by GW now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 yeah the whole thing is just sad at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 yeah, its a little depressing, of course there is no discussing it with non CSM players, because the response is almost always "well YOU get the heldrake" a unit that is quickly going from extreme to just above par for the course given the advent of black knights, tau suits, waveserpents and now centurions. You have no idea how much i hear that since October 2012.... Its true that the only Heldrake is a true compensation for our Legions traits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Antaeus Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Part of the problem is that when a new edition comes out, no one knows exactly how to cost things out. They had to let the net develop to see what needed to be done. It just sucks that it had to be at the expense of one of GW's most beloved IPs. I assure you, no developer set out to write us a bad codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhorzh Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Its true that the only Heldrake is a true compensation for our Legions traits... No, not really. You can't compensate the lack of rules which make your army unique with a unit, no matter how good it is. If CSM codex wasn't full of mediocre units the situation wouldn't be bad, annoying but not bad, but that's not the case. This is how I see this situation. While I do believe that it isn't pointless to play CSM like some of you might think, I think it is pointless to play them without any kind of ally. Even if you want to play pure CSM army you should get a Black Legion ally instead (or the other way around?), because of extra artefacts and FOC slots which will make your army better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Its true that the only Heldrake is a true compensation for our Legions traits... No, not really. You can't compensate the lack of rules which make your army unique with a unit, no matter how good it is. If CSM codex wasn't full of mediocre units the situation wouldn't be bad, annoying but not bad, but that's not the case. This is how I see this situation. While I do believe that it isn't pointless to play CSM like some of you might think, I think it is pointless to play them without any kind of ally. Even if you want to play pure CSM army you should get a Black Legion ally instead (or the other way around?), because of extra artefacts and FOC slots which will make your army better. Probably - but then, I may rather struggle away with my Death Guard list and enjoy my games... (and my Heldrakes even more) I don't know - it's a hard place to be put, the Space Marine Codex is what ours should be like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveNYC Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Part of the problem is that when a new edition comes out, no one knows exactly how to cost things out. They had to let the net develop to see what needed to be done. It just sucks that it had to be at the expense of one of GW's most beloved IPs. I assure you, no developer set out to write us a bad codex. I'll go along with that. To think that GW did this on purpose would have to assume some level of competence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FashaTheDog Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Its true that the only Heldrake is a true compensation for our Legions traits... No, not really. You can't compensate the lack of rules which make your army unique with a unit, no matter how good it is. If CSM codex wasn't full of mediocre units the situation wouldn't be bad, annoying but not bad, but that's not the case. This is how I see this situation. While I do believe that it isn't pointless to play CSM like some of you might think, I think it is pointless to play them without any kind of ally. Even if you want to play pure CSM army you should get a Black Legion ally instead (or the other way around?), because of extra artefacts and FOC slots which will make your army better. Black Templars get a special rule unlocking Crusader Squads, so instead of having a variety of Legion rules, the entire Chaos Codex gets the Baledrake and a big serving of bitter disappointment and resentment. There are your army special rules right there; one for the models to use and one for the players to use . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Well on the other hand the new BT is as bad as chaos happy family. No idea why people are getting so worked up the sm dex and it being different then the csm one , after every codex after our the csm one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I was playing Saints Row 4 the other day at a friends' house and had a humorous idea of making Noise Marines with Dubstep (Blast Master) guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I was playing Saints Row 4 the other day at a friends' house and had a humorous idea of making Noise Marines with Dubstep (Blast Master) guns. I was walking home and "And all that jazz" came on my Ipod, and for some reason made me think of Black templars :P The Emperor's champion as the PI and Grimmauldus as the Femme Fatale? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 It's fine guys, Lysander only gets four saves to choose from... Sigh. The more I read Codex Space Marines, the more I want to play with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.