Emperor's Furor Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I'm also trying to put together a themed list as well, not quite sure whether I should go for full on assault force though since I'm doing my force it via an escalation campaign, so perhaps a more standard list may be better, starting off with two ten man squads on foot with a leader and then expanding, to maybe add a dreadnought and then the dreadclaws and more assault orientated units, like reavers and terminators? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Yeah they might get them. According to Betrayal, the catulan reavers specialised in harrowing actions and hit and run tactics, so I guess they would only take jump packs in certain situations. They may even have dedicated jump pack squads. The more I look at the Catulan Reavers the more I like them. In Betrayal there is even a picture of an predator attached to the their battle company. Well, in they were first introduced in Horus Rising, they had Jump Packs. Now, ignoring that Betrayal changed it from the Catulan Reaver squad to several Catulan Reaver squads, Forgeworld has said they are sticking to BL's fluff. So, technically the Catulan Reavers should have Jump Packs in the rules at least as an addition since they are not modeled as standard equipment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 The only thing that really annoys me is the fact that the BRB FAQ states that units inside a deepstriking assault vehicle cant actually assault and because apparently since dreadclaws are flyers, you can't disembark from them the turn you come in anyway. Given the massive cost of 85 points per Dread Claw, I think it was FW's intention to have it function like a drop pod that you can assault from, but because they didn't fully explain it and GW screwing with their rules just makes it completely useless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Screw GW. I'd let you house-rule it. Too cool of a list to just drop cold Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Kol thats how I remember them, as a single squad with jumpacks. However Betrayal has expanded them into a larger organisation. The caption on the example SoH predator states that its attached to Catulan Reaver Battleforce. Hopefully Massacre will give an explanation for why. Maybe they were increased in numbers as the warrior lodge spread, or the SoH became more influenced by Cthonia, so a battle company was formed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 The only thing that really annoys me is the fact that the BRB FAQ states that units inside a deepstriking assault vehicle cant actually assault and because apparently since dreadclaws are flyers, you can't disembark from them the turn you come in anyway. Given the massive cost of 85 points per Dread Claw, I think it was FW's intention to have it function like a drop pod that you can assault from, but because they didn't fully explain it and GW screwing with their rules just makes it completely useless. I get the feeling they wanted you to come on the board, give the opponent a turn at shooting you, but you moved closer and assaulted out of it, better than a drop pod and a rhino I suppose due to the movement, the jink save and the speed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 One thing that could work, and this is 'could' mind you. Since Dread Claws are indeed flyers, when they first come onto the table, they are indeed in fly mode, meaning that that will actually take 6's to hit unless you have skyfire and they do get a jink save. Next time comes around and they move into hover mode, and then you can just move it six inches towards the nearest target and just dump your payload of merciless killers onto the field. The problem is that for a turn, you're going to have the Dread Claws just sitting there in the air, although I suppose that could represent a moment of "SHOOT THEM DOWN!" as the enemy desperately try to shoot down the Dread Claws that are screaming into the atmosphere in a blossom of red fire.... That actually sounds kinda cool, now that I think about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmimellows Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 The Reaver models don't come with jump packs so they may not have them in the rules. I think your idea sounds good. I don't see why the veterans cant stand for Catulan company troops, and when massacre comes out you can add the Reaver models in what ever format fw include them. At the end of the day as long as they are painted black I don't see the problem. I'm just painting my reavers green and using them as tacticals. Did the same using justaerin as normal termies in green(minus topknots).....looks sweet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Kol thats how I remember them, as a single squad with jumpacks. However Betrayal has expanded them into a larger organisation. The caption on the example SoH predator states that its attached to Catulan Reaver Battleforce. Hopefully Massacre will give an explanation for why. Maybe they were increased in numbers as the warrior lodge spread, or the SoH became more influenced by Cthonia, so a battle company was formed. Betrayal already explained that when it talked about them being fully one half of the First Company and then mentioning the bit where occasionally a Sons of Horus taskforce will be mixed-and-matched squads from several companies, or a portion of a company led by a War-Chief. Which was why the picture of the Catulan Reaver War-Chief mentioned a Catulan Reaver Company. It wasn't a company just a portion of the Reavers that was currently by itself under the command of someone other than Ekaddon. The increase in numbers was already explained. I think the word "the" just happened to be overlooked was all. And its minor enough that I can get over it since its not like they made the Reavers separate and apart from the First Company. @Noctus: Do it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I figure reading Horus Rising would be helpful here, it gives a lot of explanation as to how they organise their force and a lot of the time it's very informal and drew by lots lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Weren't the Reavers a legion embodiement of a prestigious cthonian gang?Even their symbol and colors came from that, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Kol thats how I remember them, as a single squad with jumpacks. However Betrayal has expanded them into a larger organisation. The caption on the example SoH predator states that its attached to Catulan Reaver Battleforce. Hopefully Massacre will give an explanation for why. Maybe they were increased in numbers as the warrior lodge spread, or the SoH became more influenced by Cthonia, so a battle company was formed. I think it has been done to make the organizations a little more "realistic". In the first books, the legions were sized 10k marines, after all. Nowadays they have changed that to around 100k or so, so naturally the elements in the books would just get "supersized"... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Actually IIRC, Horus Rising increased the limit from 10K to 100K and then afterwards, it became "each Legion varied in size" with the Thousand Sons only at 10,000 and the Ultramarines somewhere in the neighborhood of 250,000 with the Word Bearers being the second largest and either the Emperor's Children or the Space Wolves being second smallest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Oh really? I thought it was afterwards... Well, it has been quite some time since I read those books... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Oh really? I thought it was afterwards... Well, it has been quite some time since I read those books... I might be wrong as well, but I do recall mention of a numbers debate on the BL forums after Horus Rising due to previous numbers mentioned in GW's older background on the Legions. Could very easily be I am misremembering things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 Either way, I'm using them as a Company within the First Company, sort of in the concept of Grand Companies. Abaddon is overall Captain of the Company but there are subcompanies like the Justerians and the Catulans who each have their own captains. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Betrayal already explained that when it talked about them being fully one half of the First Company and then mentioning the bit where occasionally a Sons of Horus taskforce will be mixed-and-matched squads from several companies, or a portion of a company led by a War-Chief. Which was why the picture of the Catulan Reaver War-Chief mentioned a Catulan Reaver Company. It wasn't a company just a portion of the Reavers that was currently by itself under the command of someone other than Ekaddon. Ahh I see. Will have to re read over the SoH organisation. They do have a simpler way of doing things then other Legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 In Horus Rising the First Company was split between two definitive unit types, the Justaerins who were lead by Captain Falkus Kibre and the Catulan Reavers by Kalus Ekaddon who were the sub commanders below Ezekyle Abaddon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Yep. And now that I look over my post, I think I'm coming across as rude. I promise, that is not my intention if that is how I came across, I apologize. @WoT: As said above, in Horus Rising, the Catulan Reavers were a singular squad referred to as the Catulan Reavers as part of the First Company, not a fifty-fifty split of the First Company as they are in Betrayal. However, in accordance with the XVI Legion's organization in Betrayal, it wouldn't exactly be extraordinary for a force to be compromised of only Catulan Reavers, or mostly Catulan Reavers, or any other combination of forces that could exclude the Justaerin. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Kol I didn't think you were being rude, so no apology needed. (If you were not talking to me then ignore me) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 You could always substitute Dread Claws with Storm Eagles... at least they have weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I had a similar idea and came up against the same stumbling block with regards to the Dreadclaws. I think the idea of the enemy having a brief and very difficult chance to shoot them down is fair game wise and fits thematically too. It's not perfect but it's a decent compromise. With regard to the Reaver numbers and organisation I just prefer to interpret it like this - There are a large number of 'Reavers' who are part of the first company. There is only one squad of the 'Catalun Reavers.' They are a subdivision of the Reavers. The Reavers are elite similar to the teams in a first division of a football league. The Catalun Reavers are the equivilant to the League winners/title holders, an elite of the elite so it were. You could have a foot based force of normal Reavers with Dreads as a base and include a jump pack squad to represent the Catalun Reavers. Praetors and command squads can have jump packs so if you want something a bit more flash than a normal assault squad you could go down this route. Remember Justaerin terminators can deepstrike and Abaddon has better deep strike rules. You could proxy Abbadon with The Widowmaker. There are so many variations of even a first company Sons of Horus army in Betrayal. You could drop pod/deepstrike everything with Orbital Assault. You could go all terminator. You could go all jump packs/flyers. That's without the new units coming soon in book 2. Just some thoughts. Lupercal! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3455927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I don't get the football team metaphor(don't really pay attention to organized sports) but I do get what you're saying geordie, and it does make sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3456014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Now that's I'm thinking of it, the Storm Eagle idea isn't terrible. Might be worth waiting for the Fire Hawk model though... http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm106/Linnear1701/30K/Gamesday2.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3456070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 There's a Rite of War that allows you to take Storm Eagles as Dedicated Transports. You can still hit hard, you'll actually have something that passes for anti-tank, and they don't suck like Dreadclaws do (and have for a while now). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279883-sons-of-horus-catulan-reaver-army-idea/page/2/#findComment-3456208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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