CCW or VOTLW

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I'm thinking of taking a unit of chaos marines (unmarked) to support my thousand sons and Ahriman, and I was wondering wherever or not to give them close combat weapons or veterans of the long war.

[minigun762]

Depends on what you plan to do with them.

Laying down bolter and plasma fire at range, take VotLW.

Getting up close and nasty? CCW.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

It's a 5 man squad with a plasma gun led by a champion with combi plasma and lightning claw, the purpose of the unit is to be multi purpose really I guess.

[Excessus]

Both?

[the jeske]

You have left over points while runing ahriman and 1ksons . how does the list look like ?

in general though you shouldn't buy melee upgrades for small units and csm asp champions don't realy need melee upgrades either.

[minigun762]

For five guys I'd keep it cheap with VotLW only.

[Tenebris]

VotLW. To make the extra CCW useful you would have to assault or be assaulted and in both cases when this happens to your small squad it means that they are done for the game. The CCW is useful with the Mark of Khorne and even than on squads with a high model count otherwise you risk to gimp yourself due to the effects of MoK and Rage expiring in the second turn of combat. 

 

The VotLW is a much more generic upgrade and even so it has to be justified for it does not bring much to the board but it is indeed the better of the two. Use it on the CSM only for on other units it is very expensive and hardly worth its points. 

[Zhorzh]

VotLW is an auto-take for CSM IMO.

[Excessus]

VotLW is an auto-take for CSM IMO.

Indeed. At only 1 point a piece it adds much value...

[zyl-]

I've taken it on oblits when I have points leftover.. just because when they fall back you ralize life is unfair. I do also wonder [as does the Jeske] how you have extra points in a 1000 sons army. I can barely build a working army for them due to their cost. If you unlocked a new peice of the triforce to make this possible or something, let us know.

[Tenebris]

20 Thousand Sons, Ahriman, Helldrake, 2x Cultists is around 1000 points for nigh nothing scoring bodies, no firepower worth of notice and almost no hope in melee. Really I struggle to understand the above too...

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Ahriman, 2 minimum size squads of Thousand sons, 2 predators with lascannon sponsons, a vindicator and 5 man chaos marine squad with a plasma gun and combi plasma and lightning claw on the champ, and 5pts spare to use either on ccw or Votlw, I am thinking of dropping the vindicator for 5 rubrics, which would give me the pts to take both on chaos marine squad.

[Xenith]

I'd consider combining the TS squads, 5 men including sorcerer is very expensive, averaging 30pts/wound for the squad, which dies to bolters as easily as a 14pt chaos marine. Dropping the sorcerer saves you 35pts off the bat.

 

Again, 2ccw for large squads likely to see combat, 5 man units...I dont know if I'd bother, by the time the opponent kills 2 of them to force a check, the unit is pretty much crippled anyway.

 

At this stage, I'd go for more bodies over upgrades.

 

Also, Ahriman is best when you have a unit that you want to infiltrate, which your army really doesn't. Unless you really want him in the army, consider swapping  him for a ML3 regular sorceror with familiar.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Must admit, the reason the thousand sons were 2 units was to use Ahrimans warlord trait to the full. I was thinking Ahriman may be good at this points level due to the sheer amount of witchfires, with the units acting to mop up survivors.

[Xenith]

by  "to its full", do you mean infiltrating the most units?

 

I'd say it would be better to infiltrate one tough unit than 2 weaker units, but your milage may vary.