C:SM New Tactical Squads

[MagicMan]

Thoughts? Ideas? Brilliant strategies?

 

How will you be going about equipping your new tactical squads? 

 

Do they fulfill the same role, or do other parts of the army force them into a niche? What's the best way to equip them now?

 

 

 

Ive been thinking that with Graviton gun bikes/centurions, maybe Tacticals are a good place to keep Plasma.

 

A Plasma gun and a Plasma Cannon plus 10 dudes puts you back 170 points. They're more effective versus vehicles than Grav troops, but still pack a punch verus heavy infantry. 

 

Alternatively, I've been thinking of giving them a Flamer/Heavy Bolter. Keep them mid-table to deal with infantry while the more specialised parts of your army focus on Vehicles/MC's etc etc.

 

What're your plans?

 

 

[WarriorFish]

I'm not really considering running my Tacticals any different to how I usually do. Flamers are good as are meltas, and who doesn't like some heavy weapon goodness in Plasma Cannons and Missile Launchers for example? Maybe with the point changes I might have use all the heavy weapons more but generally they'll be doing the same as normal and that's pretty much everything except taking on the big nasties.

 

Which is why I'm really interested in this topic and what everyone has to say here as I'm always looking for new ideas, and what better chance than a new codex? Are small units of Tacticals back on the cards? Maybe - dare I say it - Tactical heavy lists?

[Naminé]

Pretty much the same as before, since my old setup involved a Lascannon, Flamer, combi-flamer and meltabombs in a Rhino and now I can get the same for 5 points less.  They just paid for their own dozerblade, in my eyes.

 

I do think missile launchers are less worthwhile now, what with a plasma cannon for the same cost being an option.

The only other difference I can see is if playing Imperial Fists, Leaving out the Heavy weapon altogether and taking the full squad of 10 in a Rhino to maximise the effect of bolter drill, whilst at the same time paying for the Heavy weapons on Dev squads.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I'm going for Razorspam, personally.  The special-with-five and my treadheadedness means that I can pull it off without resorting to combat squads like I used to.  It makes me easy to beat in kill points, but five out of six missions rely on taking objectives, and I'll have 3x5 Tac Squads and one 10-manner with protection and mobility for maneuvering onto said objectives.  We'll see how it works out.

[Son of Carnelian]

I'm planning on playing Imperial Fists, so I'll use basic tactical squads heavily in my lists. Four seems like a good number. Probably switch out missile launchers for heavy bolters most of the time though, due to the new chapter tactics. 

[War Angel]

Does bolted drill work on all bolters? (Storm and heavy)

[minigun762]

Now that you pay for heavy and special weapons, I see value for IF to keep them stock, maybe add a melta bomb on the Sarge.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Now that you pay for heavy and special weapons, I see value for IF to keep them stock, maybe add a melta bomb on the Sarge.

 

 With bolter drill working on heavy bolters, though, I'd say that it's a worthwhile upgrade for someone using CT:IF. 

[minigun762]

 

 

Now that you pay for heavy and special weapons, I see value for IF to keep them stock, maybe add a melta bomb on the Sarge.

With bolter drill working on heavy bolters, though, I'd say that it's a worthwhile upgrade for someone using CT:IF.

If you plan on being fairly static, I agree 100%.

If you're always moving, I'm not sure the snap fire is worth it.

Not a huge point difference either way and HB look cool.

[DarkGuard]

I'd still rather take an ML or equivalent though for versatility. I wouldn't take the heavy bolter with IF tactics, because it's not needed, you have boltguns for that.

 

Also, I think people are overestimating the tactic, I'd happily take a special and/or heavy for versatility and extra power, with the tactic helping the rest of my firepower.

 

But I plan to use UM tactics, and as such I'll likely keep my units the same as they always have been, but maybe without Vet Sergeant. Boring response I know, but I don't think grav weapons will be too great on them, combat weapons are still bad etc. The only thing I may do differently is include more Razorback squads, thanks to the fact that small 5 man squads can take special weapons.

[d@n]

im going to take at least a couple of 5 man squads, with flamer, combi flamer, melta bomb and flamer'razor back. start them of in reserve and use them to  clear objectives at the end of the game.

[Captain Idaho]

My advancing squads (including in Rhinos) will not have any heavy weapons as it's mostly wasted. Squads for hanging back are only 5 strong and have a heavy weapon.

 

None will get Veteran Sergeants now I can get combi weapons without them.

[Excubitor]

Most of the loadouts remain useful. I'll probably take out the missile launchers for heavy bolters, but then I'll have them in a Devastator squad to make used of their flak missiles.

 

I will be using 6-man special weapon teams in razorbacks more often though.

 

Sergeant-wise...with all the new combi-weapons from the sternguard kit I'll be making a few more for options, but most will keep their close combat loadouts.

[Stickeh]

Everyone know we can still combat squad right? There's not really any disadvantage to taking the full 10 man squads other than being forced into 1 heavy and 1 special instead of 2 of a single category. Most lists wont suffer too much from this (most lists I've seen have a mix of both in the 5 man squads) and the 10 man squad benefits from being able to castle up in the same transport, if need be, whilst still moving them independently when the time comes.

 

TLDR; I'll be taking 10 man squads because it saves points on Rhino's.

[DarkGuard]

My advancing squads (including in Rhinos) will not have any heavy weapons as it's mostly wasted. Squads for hanging back are only 5 strong and have a heavy weapon.

 

None will get Veteran Sergeants now I can get combi weapons without them.

 

That was exactly my thinking as well. Although I may take Vet Sergeants on the forward squads for the Ld boost.

[Excubitor]

Here's an interesting question - is it worth taking basic razorbacks now? Since they've gone up in points does it make a Rhino with 2 stormbolters and having the ability of two squad weapons firing a better investment? I know Lascannon/Assault Cannon/LasPlas ones will still be taken, but is the heavy bolter version worth it any more?

[minigun762]

Here's an interesting question - is it worth taking basic razorbacks now? Since they've gone up in points does it make a Rhino with 2 stormbolters and having the ability of two squad weapons firing a better investment? I know Lascannon/Assault Cannon/LasPlas ones will still be taken, but is the heavy bolter version worth it any more?

 

My vote would be on the dual SB Rhino.  

[WarriorFish]

I was rather partial to the HB Razorback - nice and cheap and provided a bit of extra fire power to throw about. Now I think I might dust off the Lascannon turrets and give them a go again :)

 

I liked to deliver a Tac squad with an attached character via a Drop Pod but now pods only have room for 10 the smaller squad would be necessary for this. Not sure about losing the heavy weapon though as that was quite useful to have but maybe that was as much it being free as anything else.

[minigun762]

It feels like they really want you attaching your HQ to more Elite squads in drop.pods compared to the tac squad.

[Captain Idaho]

The heavy weapon won't get used much when you're in a mobile squad so I'd save points there.

[Brother Captain Andrew]

Sadly, while better in some ways Tac squads are just as weak as they were before. They still remain "terrible" in assault particularly with challenge rules and the bolter has fallen far when you consider what other troops are toting around. 

 

At this point i think they are best used in one of a few ways.

 

1. Objective sitters. 10 or 5 man units with a heavy weapon/special weapon. Tried and true, and a bit cheaper if you leave off the vet sergeant upgrade.

 

2. 5 man suicide pods. Take a combi on the sarge and the special of your choice and you have a more cheaper, more disposable method of the sternguard suicide squad. (add ultra tactical doctrine for extra effect)

 

3. Stormraven. Base 5 man units in a storm raven for late game objective. Great protection for the tacs, the tacs dont make the raven a bigger threat than it already is (like if you load your death star in it), you can use it as a gunship without worrying about losing what your transporting, and you don't have to worry about getting in assault range to offload your passengers.

 

Honesly, IMO the best strategy for marine troops is to minimize how many you have to take so that you have more points for things that are effective.

[Ishagu]

I run mine same as always.

Sgt with bolt pistol and chainsword.

Plasma Gun

Missile Launcher.

 

Can split if required...

[WarriorFish]

For shame! In my opinion anyone running Marine suicide squads needs to sit down in a corner for a good, hard think about their army for a victory without glory or honour is hollow indeed. If your Marines must die they should die standing, taking the enemy with them and not fired off like a grot missile - the Emperor said "and they shall know no fear" not "and they shall be expended for victory"!

[Brother Captain Andrew]

For shame! In my opinion anyone running Marine suicide squads needs to sit down in a corner for a good, hard think about their army for a victory without glory or honour is hollow indeed. If your Marines must die they should die standing, taking the enemy with them and not fired off like a grot missile - the Emperor said "and they shall know no fear" not "and they shall be expended for victory"!

Ok, think of them as kill teams. Groups of marines given an objective to take out no matter the cost. You are sending them in knowing they might die, but for the necessary purpose of destroying critical enemy assets. I mean we all have been the victim of the turn 1 land raider kill and we've all seen how much a guard mech army suffers when they lose a squadron of vehicles. When a unit that costs 90 points kills a land raider and leaves that assault deathstar on your opponents table edge walking to face you, that unit will be remembered for their every action, and you will sing praises of their deeds to your friends. They do not intend to die, those little plastic men nobly sacrifice themselves so that their brothers will carry the day.

[minigun762]

Ok, think of them as kill teams. Groups of marines given an objective to take out no matter the cost. You are sending them in knowing they might die, but for the necessary purpose of destroying critical enemy assets. I mean we all have been the victim of the turn 1 land raider kill and we've all seen how much a guard mech army suffers when they lose a squadron of vehicles. When a unit that costs 90 points kills a land raider and leaves that assault deathstar on your opponents table edge walking to face you, that unit will be remembered for their every action, and you will sing praises of their deeds to your friends. They do not intend to die, those little plastic men nobly sacrifice themselves so that their brothers will carry the day.

THAT'S how you justify a suicide squad!