Assault Squads vs Vanguard Squads

[minigun762]

Assuming you are looking for a jump pack squad, how do you choose?

 

10 man AS with a PW vet sarge will cost right around 200 points whereas a 10 man VS with a relic blade and mix of PW and SS will cost 300.

 

The question seems to hinge on whether those extra attacks and PW are worth the price tag.

[Emperors Immortals]

My fast and limited maths on it looks like a 10 man AS squad is between 210 and 250 pts (depending on options), while a 7 man VV squad with 2 SS and relic blade is about 198 pts.

 

VV get a free Vet sargent and access to tailored melee weapons, but lose 3 HoW attacks and gain a smaller unit foorprint while making it more costly to lose wounds. They do about the same wounds before adding in power weapons from the VV.

 

Id say a 7 man VV is better value and I wouldnt ever take a full 10 man squad. The only real problem is its in the crowded elite section.

 

My new unit is likely to be 5-6 VV with 2 SS + TH joined by a captain with Lightning claws, possibly advancing behind predators.

[Brother Captain Andrew]

I second the big problem being the fact they are now elites. As it stands I would love to use Vangaurd but right now they are behind so many things in the elite section that It is difficult to justify taking them for me, thus I'd choose the Assault squad. 

 

 

For me the Priority list in Elites changes by what chapter tactics you use. (Imperial Fists= Sternguard, Raven Guard=Vanguard, Iron Hands=Dreanaughts, etc.)

[minigun762]

Oddly enough I'm finding my FA slots going first, dual Talons eat them up quickly.

[Brother Captain Andrew]

Oddly enough I'm finding my FA slots going first, dual Talons eat them up quickly.

I use Kantor, Sternguard and Stormravens so the only thing I really have open is FA

[minigun762]

My fast and limited maths on it looks like a 10 man AS squad is between 210 and 250 pts (depending on options), while a 7 man VV squad with 2 SS and relic blade is about 198 pts.

 

VV get a free Vet sargent and access to tailored melee weapons, but lose 3 HoW attacks and gain a smaller unit foorprint while making it more costly to lose wounds. They do about the same wounds before adding in power weapons from the VV.

 

What I had in mind was:

10 man AS squad with PA Vet Sarge = 195

10 man VV squad with RB = 245

 

50 point difference gets you a relic blade and an extra nine attacks.

[WarriorFish]

I'm thinking of treated them as what they are - better veteran Assault Marines. Flood enemies with attacks with the benefit of more special weapons. Maybe something like a 10 man squad with 3 power weapons? Could combat squad them and run them with normal AMs to complement each other.

 

A good excuse as any to get the plastic Vanguard to go with my metals...

[minigun762]

I did see a good argument on Dakka for mass melta bombs on Vanguard. The idea is that 8-10 MB will tear apart a Riptide or Wraithknight faster than beating it down with power weapons.

[Emperors Immortals]

Smart idea. I actually started looking at RG assault combat squads to use that extra movement for positioning.

 

I think ill use VV in 6 man squads to exploit enemy positioning and join combats with there power weapons, either jumping in or pouring out of a raider.

 

What do you guys think? I'm mad keen to get the most from my VV.

[minigun762]

I'm starting to feel that combat squadding jump pack squads is key against Tau overwatch. Two targets to split the incoming fire or target multiple units.

[Kaedes Nex]

I choose ASM every time because VV

 

- Cannot deepstrike assault

- Take up an elite slot (very important!)

- Pay 6 points for a mere 1 extra attack if they are unupgraded

- Are quite costly when upgrading

 

At this point the only time I would ever take VV is if I need the fast attack slots for something else or if I needed lots and lots of melta bombs.