Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I think the answer to this is whether or not the authors at BL/GW decide to bring them back ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3463633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilMAC25 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 GRRM likes to make us wonder a lot on whether a character lived or died. He likes to play on the many perspectives, forcing us, the readers, to be as in the dark about other characters as the one currently giving the perspective is. Sure, he has no qualms of actually killing a character off, if the circumstances demand it Ser Robert Strong is Ned Stark. There, I said it! Now, off to Ultramar to stop the secret traitor Guilliman before he foils the plots of secretly loyal Alpharius, who is really Ferrous Manus brought back to life by Fabius Bile except he was all like, "Chaos? I'm TOO REAL FOR CHAOS!" and then he punched Fabius to death, and the guy running around on the tabletop in 40k is really FABRIKUS, the crazy Mengele Apocethary of the World Eaters. Nope, Sir Robert Strong is HUGE. It's The Mountain That Rides. Gregor Clegane. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3464301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Doesn't Lorgar say to Angron that immortality is an illusion? That they'll eventually die - and I think he means old age, not death by stabby wound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3465223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Yes I see that but we don't know the true extent of the projects he may have been taking. For all we know he may have been attempting to settle the warp. Kill of all xenos to ensure that they can't direct the growth of chaos utilise the webway to ensure troops can be bought straight to rebellious planets in moments and maybe utilising similar tech that the necrons have on cadia to calm regions this lowering the effect of the warp. I'm not saying I'm right but this is a man that the chaos gods feared. It's not like they one night went here's the plan, there was millennia of planning just on the emperors part let alone the chaos gods. Even tzeentch couldn't see the true outcome eldrad Magnus and the big e couldn't foresee the 100% outcome. His biggest mistake was mornicha. If lorgar had stayed loyal chaos would never have gotten as much power, he needed his father to be a god. When denied he found the next closest thing to divinity. I'm all for chaos but for the big four to outright fear the emperor the webway may have just been the beginning. If you can genetically create 20 of the most amazing beings the universe would ever see something tells me that he wasn't just going to run and hide. Someone mentioned previously in another thread that he was borrowing the elders webway that they created when in fact it was the old ones that created the webway and the warp for that matter "The Emperor's most long-sighted plan to counter the insiduous influences of the Chaos Powers was the creation of the Primarchs: genetically engeneered super-humans with god-like powers. The Emperor's intention was to create a whole race of super-humans from the genetic blueprint of the Primarchs. By making them loyal and strong he hoped that they would prove immune to the malign psychic influences of Chaos." Realm of Chaos : The Lost and the Damned - page 177. "Unfortunately, things did not go quite according to the plan. Despite the Emperor's best attempts to shield the project from the penetrating eyes of the Chaos Powers they still managed to learn of it. The Primarchs were still in their foetal stage, growing in special amniotic tanks, when the Chaos Powers combined their energies to spirit them away in an unexpectedly bold move." Realm of Chaos : The Lost and the Damned - page 177. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3465458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 But it's been proven that he used raw warp to some extent in making the Primarchs, right? Ferrus releases a huge explosion after dying and I seem to recall runes on the Primarchs' tanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3465498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 But it's been proven that he used raw warp to some extent in making the Primarchs, right? Ferrus releases a huge explosion after dying and I seem to recall runes on the Primarchs' tanks.That and both views of the chamber they were created in showed them actually being hooked straight into a Geller's Field generator. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3465512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 So, among other things, Sanguinius' wings may have come from birth...? The Emperor, creating mutants...wow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3465519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Even if their bodies are destroyed, if the Primarch had enough control over their inherent psychic powers, they could maintain a presence in the warp, and hence be-reborn. Like Magnus did after his Physical body was destroyed on Prospero The Emperor specifically tore Horus' soul apart in the final battle, to ensure he could never return. If the Primarch has a strong enough will to maintain their soul as a while entity in the warp, then can be reborn. As per the Eldar, who reincarnated after a time in the warp upon the death of their physical body until Slaanesh began to eat the free souls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3465525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I'm not sure Horus' body was destroyed on Prospero, although the destruction of one's body is indeed essential to ascend into daemonhood. My guess is it happened in the Warp, already. Magnus simply discarded his physical form - or was forced to do so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3465538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Well, at the end of A Thousand Sons, Magnus is in an aetheric body, his warp body so to speak. And he did kind of just go "POOF!" when his back was broken. And in Betrayer, it mentions how he was still trying to get used to his "aetheric body"(Betrayer is actually where I got that term from). So everything is point to his physical body as either being destroyed or damaged to the point he can't use it effectively. So currently, he is either a daemon prince, or somewhere in between being a daemon prince and a dead mortal floating around in the warp. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3465546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Aye, he let his body go, definitely, what I'm not sure (though this is nit-picky in the extreme) is whether his body was destroyed when he went *POOF* before Russ' final blow landed or if said *POOF* was a teleport and middway to his new home he sealed the deal with Tzeentch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3465589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Yeah, pretty much. I think the best answer we're ever going to get is "He'll never use it again." Which really does not answer the question. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3465595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I think the Emperor's plan to forge a galaxy wide empire where order and authority were kept by using armies of Space Marines who could travel safely almost anywhere real quick fast like would have been a real bummer for the great 4 xenos creatures that reside in the warp. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3466766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Not necessarily. Mass slaughter of any dissidents, despair of thise forced into slavery, the arrogance of those in charge and the wasteful indulgences of those with power, it would have been a buffet. Not as good as a buffet as the original 40K universe but still a buffet. Heck, it was probably the Great Crusade that gave them the necessary boost to pull off the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3466776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Possibly. Wouldn't the age of strife have been significant too? Wasn't that a very chaotic period? I think if the Great Crusade was completed it would have been different. Webway, cull psykers, ultramar-ize the entire galaxy, no species except humans, quest for enlightenment, the focus on positive ideals, focus on the material universe's improvement and the here and now) would be order which is the anathema to chaos. Just my opinion, however. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3468299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Highlander Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Well, I think their bodies can die but their souls stay, like how in angel exterminatus Fulgrim keeps seeing him, as if his soul has attached itself to him. I haven't finished it yet, so maybe its explained later. NO SPOILERS!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3517694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Well, I think their bodies can die but their souls stay, like how in angel exterminatus Fulgrim keeps seeing him, as if his soul has attached itself to him. I haven't finished it yet, so maybe its explained later. NO SPOILERS!!!!Vulkan also "saw Ferrus". I think both are just suffering from delusions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3517704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumah Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Well, I think their bodies can die but their souls stay, like how in angel exterminatus Fulgrim keeps seeing him, as if his soul has attached itself to him. I haven't finished it yet, so maybe its explained later. NO SPOILERS!!!!Vulkan also "saw Ferrus". I think both are just suffering from delusions. I agree. Those were likely just manifestations of their guilty conscience. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3517727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Well, I think their bodies can die but their souls stay, like how in angel exterminatus Fulgrim keeps seeing him, as if his soul has attached itself to him. I haven't finished it yet, so maybe its explained later. NO SPOILERS!!!!Vulkan also "saw Ferrus". I think both are just suffering from delusions. I agree. Those were likely just manifestations of their guilty conscience. Pity. Recently I daydreamed that some Craftworld Eldar captured the soul of Ferrus Manus, and put it in a huge custom-made Wraithlord body, so he could go up against Fulgrim again. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3517765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumah Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 After he flies into a rage, Frankenstein monster style, and kills all the Eldar, you mean? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3517815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Yeah like that wouldn't exacerbate his legion's fetish for bionics even more... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3518059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Given that in the Ferrus/Fulgrim fights the record is W-Fulgrim-TKO by hammer to the face W-Fulgrim-KIA by sword to the neck What makes you think a third fight would go any better? Insanity is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3518083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Then by the same extension curze "killing" vulkan? Death by table fork anyone? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280296-can-primarchs-truly-die/page/3/#findComment-3518104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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