Storm Raven with Plasma Cannon

[Sviox]

I know the weaponry of SR has been debated many times, but I still wanted to bring a certain weapon to a closer look: the plasma cannon. I don't think I have ever heard anyone say much good about it, but I'm strongly considering it at the moment for a raven I'm building. My plan is simply to use the raven as a long range fire support mechanism, taking the board edge that has lower enemy presence and holding it (and possibly any objectives around with a transported assault squad). In this purpose, I'm trying to put my points primarily on long range, anti heavy infantry weapons. The other weapon will likely be typhoon missile launcher (good range and dual role).

 

Assuming I'm against marines and that a blast weapon hits average 2 models, here is some math-hammer (twin-linked, rending etc. factored in):

Assault Cannon: 1.38 kills

Plasma Cannon: 1.67 kills (2.50 with 3 hits per blast!)

Lascannon: 0.74 kills

 

And against 2+ save:

Assault Cannon: 0.99 kills

Plasma Cannon: 1.67 kills (again, 2.50 with 3 hits per blast)

Lascannon: 0.74 kills

 

And against low-armor AV11 vehicles:

Assault Cannon: 0.59 penetrating hits

Plasma Cannon: 0.33 penetrating hits and 0.17 glancing hits (assuming 100% hit rate)

Lascannon: 0.59 penetrating hits and 0.15 glancing hits

 

The good:

-Great against heavy infantry

-Good 36" range (while lascannon has even longer range and is better against armor, it simply sucks against heavy infantry)

-Blast weapons often tend to hit at least something (especially twin-linked)

 

The bad:

-Surprisingly poor against armor (can penetrate max AV12 armor but has poor chance at that)

-Can't be used while in 'Evade mode' due to blast type (while especially assault cannon would still be of some worth)

 

 

Anyone want to share their experiences with plasma cannons on SR? How often are you actually forced to go to evade mode and should that worry me?

 

Also any experience with typhoon launcher is appreciated. I'm a bit worried about the price, but I think it is way superior to the alternatives (got a list with lots of melta already and heavy bolter isn't really to my liking with all the 3+/2+ infantry running around).

[JamesI]

Bad for plasma cannon.

 

Can not be fired at other flyers.

[Sviox]

Bad for plasma cannon.

 

Can not be fired at other flyers.

Really? Why not?

[Sviox]

Also, a rules question. If a storm raven is 'evading', can it still fire the plasma cannon (or any other weapon) using POTMS and does that use BS4 or snap shot rules?

 

EDIT: Additionally, if deciding to use Skyfire to shoot at fliers, can PTMS be used to target another unit with full BS?

[scrimdog]

Death from the sky and BRB both state blast weapons cannot target flyers. But on a plus I run a plasma raven almost everytime' with HC,B and extra armour and it works a treat. I don't tend hang about tho I really like to use the mobility it provides and earn them points back.

 

My raven mostly targets heavey infantry and delivers my warlord and co into the enemy ranks as soon as. But some cc scouts work well for a drop near objective late on in the game.

Not tryed TML but I'm sure that will work fine and pop light AV, MC, and the like same as a speeder

[Memento Of Prospero]

I wish you could blow Heldrakes out of the sky with VINDICATORS BABY. 

[Khorneeq]

When I'm fielding Raven it's almost always with plasma cannon, works great for me. I'm using it with multi melta so can't say anything about typhoon (maybe only that it's cost just scares me :D). Sometimes I'm adding hurricanes, but not always. As for other flyers two missiles and melta are sufficient most of the time :)

[Morticon]

I played in the last nationals with the Plascan on one, and a las on the other- after the experience I moved to the AC and never looked back.  

There just wasnt enough anti air firepower and when the missiles were done, 2 shots a piece just didnt feel right.  

[appiah4]

I find the TLLC/Missile Launcher is the most reliable version; lots of longrange high powered shots (including Bloodstrikes missiles) and POTM means aerial dominance with even a single Raven, and it's also great at hitting armored targets from out of range. This is what a gunship should do. It can then clear an objective and drop an MSU troop squad late game. In my experience any Raven is OK with dealing with any type of infantry if you give it Hurricane Bolters. Volume of fire does wonders.

[knife&fork]

The plasma cannon is just a very situational weapon no matter the platform. When you get a target of opportunity that low ap blast is the best there is, other times it's not really doing much.

 

If you run a single Raven and/or depend on it for anti air, don't take the PC. Otherwise run it for a few games and see how it works for you. 

[Ushtarador]

Don't really like the plasma cannon, you need the AC shots against vehicles and flyers, and if your opponent spreads well you'll rarely hit more than 1 model with a small blast, it's not worth it for me.

[knife&fork]

Perfect 2" spread all the time doesn't happen. There are emergency disembarks, botched run or consolidation moves, crowded deployment zones, deep strikes and so on.

 

The PC isn't optimal but it will rarely be useless either.

[Chaplain Admetus]

No, but it's FAR easier to get a plasma cannon elsewhere in the army. I run mine multi-melta/ass cannon and it works a treat. I'd stick to that over the plasma cannon as the raven is better off as anti-armour/anti-air, with the assault cannon when it needs to go after infantry. We do anti-infantry well already.

 

Its the same with my Dark Eldar Razorwings (bear with me here). Stock they come with two dark lances (S8 AP2 Lance), a twin-linked splinter rifle (glorified bolter), and 4 S6 AP5 large blast missiles. Once those missiles are gone, 2 S8 shots a turn are really underwhelming against most targets; plasma cannon will suffer the same fate, but it is nice to have the mixture of capabilities on one model.

 

Essentially, I'm trying to draw a comparison to make a point. If you have single-shot weapons, like lances, you want mass-damage missiles to make up for it. For the storm raven, which has one-shot, single hit missiles, you're better off with multiple-shot weapons to counteract the fact. Unless you're using the twin-linked heavy bolter on it. Don't do that. Friends don't let friends play heavy-bolter storm ravens.

[knife&fork]

No, but it's FAR easier to get a plasma cannon elsewhere in the army. I run mine multi-melta/ass cannon and it works a treat. 

 

I'd say that's even more true for assault cannons and multi meltas :P

Not to knock that particular combo, but our codex is already bursting at the seams with fast assault cannons and multimeltas. We really don't have that many ways to deliver plasma blasts and nothing with the mobility of a raven. For example; How likely is a ground delivered PC to ignore the aegis defense line?

 

Small blasts are not very dangerous when properly spread out, but then again actually forcing your opponent to spread out can work in your favor. He might be forced to give up shooting for a run move, make less use of cover or area terrain, be more limited in how he brings on his reserves, and so on.. 

 

As stated earlier they are not the best pick for a single raven, but they are not nearly as bad as people might think either.

Having been on the receiving end of a PC stormraven they are really bad when you get caught with your pants down. :pinch:

[Chaplain Admetus]

The problem is that we're discussing the choice in a vacuum. That's a dangerous thing to do. If you don't have much/any AP2 in your army, then the plasma cannon is likely a decent option. If your Raven is your main anti-flyer defence (mine is for a start, and I know some others are), then plasma cannon is an awful choice.

[knife&fork]

The problem is that we're discussing the choice in a vacuum. That's a dangerous thing to do. If you don't have much/any AP2 in your army, then the plasma cannon is likely a decent option. If your Raven is your main anti-flyer defence (mine is for a start, and I know some others are), then plasma cannon is an awful choice.

 Are flyers enough of a problem that you need two dedicated AA platforms?

 

The tough nuts for me are now Eldar and Tau, neither of those are dependent on flyers.

[Sviox]

The problem is that we're discussing the choice in a vacuum. That's a dangerous thing to do. If you don't have much/any AP2 in your army, then the plasma cannon is likely a decent option. If your Raven is your main anti-flyer defence (mine is for a start, and I know some others are), then plasma cannon is an awful choice.

I deliberately left out the "other army" as I have a collection of about 10k BA, which means I can build many kinds of lists. However, I tend to use mech and usually have lot's of melta weapons on the list already, so I'm not really scared of armor. What I do worry about, is heavy infantry and actually all massed infantry with lots of firepower (Tau, IG...).

 

Also, since I'm using only one raven and it will be in support role, I thought it would be best to use some long range weapons. Assault cannons are great at short range but and I could later build another raven with AC+Melta+HB, but now I'm building something that tries to stay alive and be effective in the vehicle-hostile environment of the 6th edition.

 

The frontal weapon really gives me troubles too. The typhoon launcher is really expensive, but HB is a poor choice in comparison and melta forces me uncomfortably close (+I already have some). I wish I could have the AC as a frontal weapon, it would be effective with PC turret.

[Sviox]

I'd say that's even more true for assault cannons and multi meltas

Not to knock that particular combo, but our codex is already bursting at the seams with fast assault cannons and multimeltas. We really don't have that many ways to deliver plasma blasts and nothing with the mobility of a raven. For example; How likely is a ground delivered PC to ignore the aegis defense line?

Truly so. Now with snap firing, it's usually better to equip infantry with non-blast weapons. So it pretty much leaves blast weapon carrying role to the vehicles.

[Calnus]

I've really found the AC/Hurricane sponsons to eliminate infantry fairly well.  With it being mounted on a flyer, getting within 12" is both easy and relatively safe.  Certainly safer than getting that close with infantry or tanks is going to be.

 

The safety comes from a couple things.  First is that all of the S7 or greater weapons that you worry about from being AV12 are 24" or longer ranged.  So you really can't outrange them, especially the 48"+ weapons that you see imperial armies bring.  Second is that you have Ceramite Plating on the gunship, so melta doesn't matter.  So you could be at 24" or 1", the MM is just as effective against your Stormraven at either range.

 

Oddly enough, Armourbane still affects the Stormraven, even though its effectively the melta rule at full range.  Wonder if that's why the new Hunter has armourbane instead of melta on its single shot?

[knife&fork]

 

The problem is that we're discussing the choice in a vacuum. That's a dangerous thing to do. If you don't have much/any AP2 in your army, then the plasma cannon is likely a decent option. If your Raven is your main anti-flyer defence (mine is for a start, and I know some others are), then plasma cannon is an awful choice.

I deliberately left out the "other army" as I have a collection of about 10k BA, which means I can build many kinds of lists. However, I tend to use mech and usually have lot's of melta weapons on the list already, so I'm not really scared of armor. What I do worry about, is heavy infantry and actually all massed infantry with lots of firepower (Tau, IG...).

 

Also, since I'm using only one raven and it will be in support role, I thought it would be best to use some long range weapons. Assault cannons are great at short range but and I could later build another raven with AC+Melta+HB, but now I'm building something that tries to stay alive and be effective in the vehicle-hostile environment of the 6th edition.

 

The frontal weapon really gives me troubles too. The typhoon launcher is really expensive, but HB is a poor choice in comparison and melta forces me uncomfortably close (+I already have some). I wish I could have the AC as a frontal weapon, it would be effective with PC turret.

 

I think the unit you are looking for is the new and improved Legion of the Damned from the vanilla dex ;) 

 

Relentless, cover ignoring plasma cannon with a 3++? Deployed with a fairly safe deep strike? Yes please!

 

Expect to see a lot of those guys in the future.

[Sviox]

I've really found the AC/Hurricane sponsons to eliminate infantry fairly well.  With it being mounted on a flyer, getting within 12" is both easy and relatively safe.  Certainly safer than getting that close with infantry or tanks is going to be.

 

The safety comes from a couple things.  First is that all of the S7 or greater weapons that you worry about from being AV12 are 24" or longer ranged.  So you really can't outrange them, especially the 48"+ weapons that you see imperial armies bring.  Second is that you have Ceramite Plating on the gunship, so melta doesn't matter.  So you could be at 24" or 1", the MM is just as effective against your Stormraven at either range.

 

Oddly enough, Armourbane still affects the Stormraven, even though its effectively the melta rule at full range.  Wonder if that's why the new Hunter has armourbane instead of melta on its single shot?

I have a feeling that today's battlefields are more filled with infantry carrying the '-gun' and pistol variants of high strength weapons. I.e. with marines, this means more plasma pistols (S7 12"), meltaguns (S8 12") and plasmaguns (S7 24") than multi-melta (S8 24"), plasma cannons (S7 36"), missile launcher (S8 24") or lascannons (S9 48"). I'd say a "relatively safe" distance for armor is beyond 24".

[SevenExxes]

I have run 2 Ravens both with plasma cannons. They are constantly my best performing units.

 

Why is the plasma cannon good?

~Twinlinked means it can reroll gets hot rolls and scatter rolls

~AP2 kills terminators and other 2+ saves (terminator players fear this weapon)

~Combined with typhoon rockets it can decimate larger infantry squads with lower save like IG

 

Why is the plasma cannon bad?

~It can get hot and take a hull point if the reroll is failed

~Cannot be fired at other flyers due to blast template (Other weaponry can easily compensate for this)

I honestly think that it's the best loadout for the Raven. I also use typhoon rockets and hurricane bolters.

[Sviox]

By the way, a semi-related question. What glue have you used with the clear plastic window part of the cockpits? I'm a bit scared about just using the plastic glue since it usually melts the paint which might create nasty cosmetic issues.

[Francesi Castigon]

By the way, a semi-related question. What glue have you used with the clear plastic window part of the cockpits? I'm a bit scared about just using the plastic glue since it usually melts the paint which might create nasty cosmetic issues.

i used PVA glue, dries clear, doesn't melt the plastic or leave the super glue white frosting.

[The Milkman Of Baal]

By the way, a semi-related question. What glue have you used with the clear plastic window part of the cockpits? I'm a bit scared about just using the plastic glue since it usually melts the paint which might create nasty cosmetic issues.

I just use the plastic glue, just be careful, use it sparingly and test the parts fit 1st.