Bonsai Monkey Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Hello, I have put this here as its more of a tactic/idea review than a list review but understand if it needs to be moved? I have a doubles game against a eldar wraith army coming up at somepoint that is likely to include a couple of wraith jet things, maybe 4-5 wraithguard units, poss a wraithlord seer thing and prob 4 wraith knights!!!!! Now my partner has a well balanced, playtested, practised, experienced, blah, blah list. He knows what to do and plays tournements so he has no worries, But me........ I have come up with a cunning plan (I say in my best balrick voice) and it includes ruining there (our opponents) ideas of rushing 4 wraithknights at us and watching us die to loads of twin linked ap2 blasts followed by massed instant death at a higher intiative so no come back while his wraithguard mop up any resistance. Now I could go with a fairly balanced list of runepriest and longfangs and droppod greys with as many thunderhammer lonewolves and thunderhammer thunderwolves as I can get in to try to make them lose the intiative bonus and poss hurt back BUT what ever I do they will instant death anything I chuck at them, So, lets face the facts that they will hurt with there shooting and they will hit whilst taking lots to put down.... So my cunning idea is wg in claw/assault drop pods, now I know that this is suicide. But if I can take down 3 of the 4 before they hit my matey can concentrate on dealing with the flyers whilst whittling away at his back field and holding the line with no worries What im thinking of is logan, in a pod with 4 tda, ss, pf wg with another 3 pods with 5 tda, ss, pf wg? Turn 1, 2 pods turn up prob just normal ones and should get one down, then as the pods arrive they get another one and so on. His overwatch doesnt really worry me as it will just be the scatter laser things and he only has 4 attacks if I remember from fighting them before so maybe 2 die before I hit back but I get 15 pf attacks per (before kills) pack and 23 from logans pack (if I use his living legend rule). I will be hurting him on 4's with only his inv to kick in! So is it a viable tactic to play or am I resigning my mate to a complete git of a game by doing this? Any feedback would be good, I have faced an army with 2 wraithknights in and even with unlucky/lucky dice they were hard to deal with, let alone the rest of the army. Cheers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Meh, its not a bad thought- Id rather use long range firepower from LFs and Typhoons to take them out, but thats just me. But dont bother with the Lone Wolves- as jump monstrous creatures youll never catch them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3463476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerEightBall Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I got lucky taking out a Wraith Knight with a Rune Priest Force Weapon once. It was cool when it happened, but it was a casual game and very lucky, but it is the only way our army can instant death one. Now if you're set on a TDA squad punching one in the face, I would try and find the points to add some Thunder Hammers. The Concussive rule on those will let you strike simultaneously in the second combat round if you get a wound on him. I was able to wear down the second Wraith Knight in that casual game with my Wolf Lord swinging his hammer and stunning it turn after turn while my Blood Claws planted Krak grenades and ate wounds. Very fluffy of them, I might add. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3463843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerEightBall Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Oh and I second the Lone Wolf's...struggle against one. They simply don't have enough attacks to truly be your army's monster hunter. You can tie one up for a turn or two before he meets his glorious death, and never send one in without a shield and get lucky rolls. Now I always run a Lone Wolf with a chain fist and shield to annoy people and eat what gets close, and it can still go after monsters if he needs to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3463857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I recently had the same issue, Wraithknight flying around tearing my stuff up. After jumping here and fellow brothers guiding me! i learn a easy way to kill it with our rolling loads of dice. Since you are going wg army, and terms. If you can squeeze in a arjac. Drop pod arjac turn 1 make sure he lands in the face of the WK. USe the hammer to get him to initiative 1, and then jaws the filthy scum into the ground. I have done this 3 times now, and 2 times WK was removed first turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3463863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I got lucky taking out a Wraith Knight with a Rune Priest Force Weapon once. It was cool when it happened, but it was a casual game and very lucky, but it is the only way our army can instant death one. Now if you're set on a TDA squad punching one in the face, I would try and find the points to add some Thunder Hammers. The Concussive rule on those will let you strike simultaneously in the second combat round if you get a wound on him. I was able to wear down the second Wraith Knight in that casual game with my Wolf Lord swinging his hammer and stunning it turn after turn while my Blood Claws planted Krak grenades and ate wounds. Very fluffy of them, I might add. How? Rune Priests cant even wound a WraithKnight, other than Njal.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3463878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Biomancy, I assume. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3464065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerEightBall Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Hm...you know what? Disregard that point. I realize now I played that wrong. It was a while ago and we had been playing under the assumption that he had the option of choosing a force Axe as opposed to using an unusual force weapon. I haven't played Eldar since I understood the ruling. Oh well my opponent should have known, being a judge for one of the major tournaments around here. But it was a friendly game after all. So, OP, as it stands your options are to shoot the thing back to its craftworld or break its knees with thunder hammers. And Arjac is a good strategy too. I humbly bow and do my research to preserve what dignity and credibility I have left. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3464367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonsai Monkey Posted September 16, 2013 Author Share Posted September 16, 2013 Cheers for everyone coming back, alot of the points raised I have thought about but being rather negative in thought I always find that optimism can be killed with a couple of rolls of a 1 whilst pessimism always endures. With regards to points raised regarding saturation of fire, even if both my mate and I went all out runepriest, maxed missile longfang that would give us 6 squads. But unless we get first turn, by the time the 4 wraithknights have finished shooting at them we only have 2 squads left (each knight is capable to mashing a squad or leaving them completely useless with only a couple of models left) and they will be gone by turn 2, which then puts us in a position of having nothing to answer to them reliably for the rest of the game and they can stomp us at will? Typhoon spamming would be good though, will put this to my mate? I get your points about lonewolves, my main idea behind there viability was eternal warrior. But the knights could just keep jumping around them and showing how useless they would be. Thunderwolves would do better, but armed out they would come in at 100pts each and will get instant deathed (wasting there second wound), so was thinking they would not be that good in the end. I tried to get arjac in (I really think he would excel in this list), but I would have to sacrifice all the ss's in the squads to get him in and that would make my chance of surviving the initial assaults very very slim and most def not having enough models left in the squad to do enough damage back. Although I will try to get some thunderhammers in the squads incase they slip past me, my mates runepriests can jaws them! It would seem that no one has raised a major flaw in the plan (other than personnel preference) and as I said in the first message, Im not doing this to win the game through my actions just to make sure that his knights dont run the game. Having played against 2 already, 4 is really going to hurt any list thats created all I want to do is pull the teeth out of his list and let my mate play the game without the scare factor? Sitting back and plinking at them will not get rid of them quick enough and as I said above each knight will destroy a vehicle, or render a squad (greys, longfangs, wg, etc) dead or useless per turn with 3 twin linked high strengh ap2 blasts and once the wraith jets arrive home camping will not work due to there terror rule thing. We will just start running of the board (-3 leadership test dont do ld 8/9 much good). I will admit to being a bit thick, so If you have tried to raise subtle hints at me not seeing the big picture please shout louder. I will get the point eventually.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3464438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 How many points is the game, and how many points do those 4 WraithKnights cost? V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3464591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonsai Monkey Posted September 16, 2013 Author Share Posted September 16, 2013 Hello, The game is going to be just above the 3000 mark, I left early that evening and when I left they were discussing 3300. I dont know where the conversation ended? The knights are going to cost about 1200 ish, with the shield, sun cannon and scatter laser they come to 300 I think? Howcome? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3464666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 arjac and runepriest with Jaws = dead whatever, including wraithknights. I'd go for that one certainly. a few droppodding combi-melta's could spell the doom of another one, so if you have enough droppods in your list, these 2 units could be 2 dead wraithknights turn one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3465581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerEightBall Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 arjac and runepriest with Jaws = dead whatever, including wraithknights. If I'm reading that correctly (and forgive me if it's obvious) you could drop next to a WK, knock him to I1 with Arjac's hammer, then open the ground under him with Jaws? And no invuln allowed? I just want to be sure that's all rules kosher and in the right order. I'm sure it is but it's so deviant I need to hear myself say it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3465615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 yup, throw the hammer, knock his initiative down, then watch gleefully as he is swallowed whole by whichever planet or space fulk you're fighting on. no invulnerable saves allowed vs the ground opening up under your feet. You might be invulnerable, but you won't be participating in the combat untill your friends have dug you out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3465622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonsai Monkey Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Cheers for everyones thoughts, I think im going to have to have a few practice games with the assult type drop pods to gauge how usefull they really are and can things be pulled back a bit when things go invariable wrong? Cheers again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3465864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW1 Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Hmmm ... Drop pod with 10 PA WG all with combi-melta's, should come out at 265 points if memory serves me right. You could possibly stick 1 or 2 with a PF or TH so they remain a threat after the 1st turn of shooting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3466655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonsai Monkey Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 I did ponder PA WG, but If I use the assault drop pods I can smack them on the turn I arrive rather than risk missing/not hurting with 10 shots. I will have to give both types a go I think but I prefer to beat things up than shoot them. I will have to come back with my findings, but If they (the drop pods) work well I can see my future tactics changing alot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3466999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 You do know that the Lucius-pattern Drop Pods are for Dreadnoughts only, right? Also, they're Forgeworld, so you have to ensure FW rules are accepted wherever you're playing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3467327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 More people need to discover the caestus assault ram! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3467643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerEightBall Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 I'd love that to be our big kit in the next codex. A wolf can dream. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3467653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 U can use it now. It is available to sw. And normally at most events they will allow something like 20% of the army can be fw. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3467685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerEightBall Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Yeah my group is alright with FW (I don't really play in tournaments either) however I'd prefer a plastic kit with our codex so I can stay in good graces with my wallet. I could try some proxy games with it. I know it's a long shot I doubt GW would ever sculpt a whole plastic Assault Ram kit for us. Nilla marines would hate us for it because awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3467868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonsai Monkey Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 hello, I didnt know they were for dreads only? Nor did my mate who got me all excited...... so that buggers any plans of taking him out and we will just have to be getting shot to bits and squashed with no comeback. Maybe we could kill one and take the odd wound off the others but whatever happens, they are going to run game and leave us pissing in the wind? Shame. How many points are the ram things? Are the rules anywhere other than the books? Maybe with a few count as things the main idea of the plan might still have legs? Sorry, I have just found what looks like an old pdf for one and it looks cool, but, Is it a flyer OR a skimmer (the pdf says skimmer)? Also alot of blasts take effect against the rear armour, so does the armour 11 stand up or do they start dropping out of the skies? The one use missile option looks good, Is it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3468199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Not only are lucius pods dreads-only, but they no longer allow you to charge on the term you deep strike.... though you dont have to deploy out of them and they are assault vehicles. The rams run about 300pts, and have a melta-blast as their primary weapon and some rocket pods that are fairly nasty. Holds ten guys, no matter if its TDA or PA or Scouts... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3469178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 I think the ram in a 2k or 1850 game can be very devastating. Really looking forward to using mine with 8 WGTDA 1 RP TDA and Logan MY gosh!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280328-suicide-wraithknight-duty/#findComment-3469180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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