Overwatch, line of sight and timing

[Crazy Jay]

when assaulting, first you declare and roll to see if you have the distance. Then the enemy unit gets overwatch fire. Finally you start moving your models into base to base contact. My question is, if the enemy unit has absalutly no line of sight, can they still fire overwatch? I guess the specific example would be I have assault troops with jump packs behind a wall assaulting an enemy force on the other side of the wall. could I avoid the overwatch fire in this example?

[Bryan Blaire]

Wouldn't they have line of sight the instant your jump pack troops come over the wall?

 

The biggest flaw with your question is that per pg 20, BRB: "A unit can never declare a charge against a unit that it cannot reach, nor can it declare a charge against a unit that it cannot see."

 

So if they can't see you to fire Overwatch, it is only reasonable to assume that you can't see them to assault them in the first place.

[Spinsanity]

See page 21, under Resolve Overwatch, paragraphs 2 and 3 :

"As soon as a charge has been declared..."

And then

"An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight..."

 

As soon as the charge is declared, so range and LoS are checked the moment the charge is declared not mid-way trough.

 

So no, models from the target unit that cannot see you and models from your unit that cannot see them cannot shoot or be shot at. This also applies to other units that might Overwatch too (see C:Tau...)

[Bryan Blaire]

In Crazy Jay's example, none of it matters, as the assault squad can't charge in the first place, because the Assault Squad doesn't have line of sight to what he wants to charge.

[Dam13n]

Crazy Jay:

 

1 - the Assault phase states that you declare the target of your assault (which much be a unit that is eligible to be charged - ie within line of sight and 12" of the unit declaring - see "Declare Charge", BRB page 20) the unit then performs overwatch before you roll the charge distance.  See "Charge Sub-phase" on page 20 of the BRB.

 

2 - in your example no, because you couldn't have declared the charge in the first place.

[DarkGuard]

Do bear in mind though that obviously, there will be times when you can declare a charge on seeing only one or two models of the target unit. In this instance, Overwatch would likely be limited to just those models, as the other models wouldn't have LoS to the charging unit, much like how the charging unit wouldn't have LoS to them as well.

[Gentlemanloser]

An addition.

 

The target Squad is in the open, ready to overwatch.

 

The Assaulting Squad is hiding out of LoS behind a wall, apart from a single member of the unit that has full LoS to the target Squad.

 

The Charge is declared (which is fine, as the unit has LoS to the target), and Overwatch taken.  As the target unit only has LoS to a single mini, they can only wound that mini with Overwatch (as the assaulting unit hasn't moved yet).  That mini is killed by overwatch.

 

As the Charge has been delcared, can the rest of the unit, all now out of LoS to the target, then roll for charge distance and assault?

[dswanick]

An addition.

 

The target Squad is in the open, ready to overwatch.

 

The Assaulting Squad is hiding out of LoS behind a wall, apart from a single member of the unit that has full LoS to the target Squad.

 

The Charge is declared (which is fine, as the unit has LoS to the target), and Overwatch taken.  As the target unit only has LoS to a single mini, they can only wound that mini with Overwatch (as the assaulting unit hasn't moved yet).  That mini is killed by overwatch.

 

As the Charge has been delcared, can the rest of the unit, all now out of LoS to the target, then roll for charge distance and assault?

Yes. The LoS prohibition is on declaring the Charge, which your example unit had at the time the Charge was declared (BRB, pg.20). The Charge Move rules do not require LoS (BRB, pg.21), so the unit may continue the declared Charge even though it now has no LoS.

[Crazy Jay]

First off, thanks for the replies. All this is good info to have and I'm learning more every day. Now for a follow up question/scenario. Say I have the same situation as in the first example except I have a single model that can see a portion/all of the enemy unit. I know have line of sight and any that can see him can fire overwatch. If he dies but other models from my unit have the range to make B2B contact, does my charge fail or succeed? Also, on a similar notion, playing Dark Angels, is there anyway to prevent an enemy unit from getting Overwatch in any scenario?

[Gentlemanloser]

Preempted above. ;)

[Crazy Jay]

Preempted above.

Thanks. Can't believe I missed that.

[Spinsanity]

As said, as long as one of your models can see the enemy, you can charge. When you have intervening terrain and an assault squad/Jump infantry unit trying to charge around it, careful positioning can really help mitigate the effect of overwatch.

 

Always try to minimize the number of models in your opponent's squad that can see yours; if there's only one of them with LoS, even if he sees your whole unit, he can still only shoot once; if he sees only one model with a whole squad then he's a lot more likely to kill said straggler...