Stupid Waldo Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I know this might seem stupid, but I was reading through the rule book the other day (trying to pick up all the little bits that I've missed every other time), and I noticed that nowhere (that I saw) did it say that FMCs or Flyers could deepstrike. Is it some unmetioned rule that they can? I've been playing for a while, and we've always done it that way, but for a game where every word has to be taken literally, it seems strange that I can't find mention of this in the book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280371-flying-monstrous-creatures-and-flyers-deep-striking/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Flyers may not deep strike unless they have the special rule. FMC may only deep strike if they enter the game in Glide mode or are from Codex: Chaos Daemons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280371-flying-monstrous-creatures-and-flyers-deep-striking/#findComment-3464289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Waldo Posted September 16, 2013 Author Share Posted September 16, 2013 Thats the only thing I could think of that would work. It seemed a little weird, because the rulebook states that FMCs in glide mode can 'move, run and charge as if they were Jump Monstrous Creatures', but then the Deepstrike rule says that in order to deepstrike, all models in a unit wishing to do so must HAVE the deepstrike special rule, which FMCs do not. It's very confusing, but how you said it seems to make the most sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280371-flying-monstrous-creatures-and-flyers-deep-striking/#findComment-3464300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I may be wrong, but it sounds right. Ish? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280371-flying-monstrous-creatures-and-flyers-deep-striking/#findComment-3464332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Just want to mention, found this in the Tyranid FAQ: Q: Can Harpies and Hive Tyrants with the wings biomorph deepstrike? (p84)A: Yes. With that precedent, any can. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280371-flying-monstrous-creatures-and-flyers-deep-striking/#findComment-3472400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
infornography Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Not quite. The wings biomorph explicitly confers the deep strike rule. The only reason for the FAQ entry is that so much about how wings work changed in 6th edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280371-flying-monstrous-creatures-and-flyers-deep-striking/#findComment-3473519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Why you'd actually want to is questionable. A Flyer always comes from reserve and can move up to 36" in the movement phase, more than enough to get into range in a standard game. A Flying Monster should be deployed in hard cover then goes into swoop mode turn 1, allowing it to move up to 24" (seeing as you deploy 24" apart that will place him in-amongst the enemy turn 1 ready to charge turn 2). Unless you're going second and your opponent was foolish enough to move closer to your Flying Monster, in which case you move 12" forward in glide mode and then charge him. Deep striking opens up the risk of misshaping, even to a Flyer as it's base cannot be placed within 1" of an enemy model, any model that cannot be placed mishaps. "Flyers and Other Models" page 80 and "Deep Strike Mishaps" page 36. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280371-flying-monstrous-creatures-and-flyers-deep-striking/#findComment-3473824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
infornography Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Overall I agree, but I can see situations where someone MIGHT want to risk deep striking a flyrant for instance. In a heavy reserve list it protects your Hive Commander so your forces will be sure to come in on turn 2 with a 2+. Also a lot of Tyranid players do not gun for getting in melee by turn 2 with their flyrants as that puts them in serious harm's way on turn 1. A flyrant charging an enemy's front line unsupported is a dead flyrant. I personally position mine near the board edge in cover and try to swoop to cover that is positioned such that I can shoot at least one enemy unit and join the party on turn 2, but not necessarily assault. That would be ideal, but not often possible. Some LOS blocking or at least 4+ cover is more important than the ability to assault. as without it, the flyrant is very much at risk of being shot to death before contributing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280371-flying-monstrous-creatures-and-flyers-deep-striking/#findComment-3474595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 "move, run and charge as if they were Jump Monstrous Creatures" Is not Deep Striking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280371-flying-monstrous-creatures-and-flyers-deep-striking/#findComment-3474687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
infornography Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 "move, run and charge as if they were Jump Monstrous Creatures" Is not Deep Striking. Oops, my apologies, it seems my memory played a trick on me. It does not explicitly state it, it implicitly does. By virtue of the jump unit rules. And since flying monstrous creatures universally can follow jump unit rules when they are gliding, they can all likely deep strike. For some reason I remembered (incorrectly) that everything that had jump unit rules also independently had to have the deep strike rule but most did. Apparently that is inherited by virtue of being a jump unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280371-flying-monstrous-creatures-and-flyers-deep-striking/#findComment-3474939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calnus Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Hammer and Anvil deployment has given rise to situations where I have not only wanted to, but really needed to deep strike a Stormraven in order to exploit a hole in the opponents defenses. While I agree that FMCs get to Deep Strike (however they must do it in Glide Mode, rather than swooping, so they can't be grounded and are hit normally), I wish it had not been blanket removed from Flyers. Also, ever seen Ceramite Plating? Stormtalons and Stormravens have the rule where melta doesn't get a second dice, and the reason they have it is explained in the text as because they are hardened in order to withstand the heat of re-entry. So its really ironic that a vehicle with a rule (derived from fluff to enable deep striking from orbit like a drop pod) had the Deep Strike ability removed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280371-flying-monstrous-creatures-and-flyers-deep-striking/#findComment-3475108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Yes, but lets focus on the rules, not on the tactics gentlemen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280371-flying-monstrous-creatures-and-flyers-deep-striking/#findComment-3475137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 And since flying monstrous creatures universally can follow jump unit rules when they are gliding, they can all likely deep strike.They don't universally follow JMC rules, they follow the rules for moving, shooting and charging like a JMC. They are not a jump unit, they only move shoot and charge like one. Some flyers have hover mode, which is treated exactly as a fast skimmer, but doesn't mean it can be deployed on the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280371-flying-monstrous-creatures-and-flyers-deep-striking/#findComment-3475932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
infornography Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 And since flying monstrous creatures universally can follow jump unit rules when they are gliding, they can all likely deep strike.They don't universally follow JMC rules, they follow the rules for moving, shooting and charging like a JMC. They are not a jump unit, they only move shoot and charge like one. Some flyers have hover mode, which is treated exactly as a fast skimmer, but doesn't mean it can be deployed on the table. Yes, but as Seahawk pointed out already, this is in the Tyranid FAQ Q: Can Harpies and Hive Tyrants with the wings biomorph deep strike? (p84) A: Yes. Note, not Errata, FAQ. That implies rather significantly that all flying monstrous creatures can deep strike, though an argument can be made that this is special to FMCs who previously had a rule that allowed them to count as jump MCs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280371-flying-monstrous-creatures-and-flyers-deep-striking/#findComment-3477442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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