Struggling vs Eldar

[Jonah]

As the topic suggests, I'm having a lot of trouble playing against my friend's Eldar list.

 

I don't know the proper names but he has a Wraithknight and 4 of the transports that can drop their shields and do D6 attacks. These 5 units alone absolutely wreck me, never mind the contents of the transports and the 2x3 hover bikes that escort them.

 

The problems are manifold. First of all, I can't kill the tanks. They ignore penetrating hits on a 2+ and as they're fast he can hide them behind cover in the first turn or 2. Then they all spring forward, drop their shields, and start deleting everything I have. Everything is equipped with the twin-linked guns that twin-link other guns on the vehicle, so he has 4x twin-linked 4-shot guns, then 4x twin-linked D6 attacks that ignore cover. This means his shields go down, but by then it doesn't matter because he's easily killed most of my units.

 

Then there's the Wraithknight, I can't believe this model. T8 with 3+/5++. Six Wounds. In the last game we played I made the mistake of pouring everything I had at him on Turn 1 - 2 melta guns, 2 grav guns, 4 rocket launchers, 8 sternguard, and various bolters. And this was after Enfeebling him. I did 4 wounds after very good rolling on my part. Then he does his mental shooting - firing the twin-linking gun at something, so then he gets 3x plasma cannon attacks that are twin-linked. Coupled with the knight's mobility and ridiculous line-of-sight means that my opponent can consistently delete one of my units each turn, regardless of what or where it is.

 

All this before is actual army gets out of the transports. He has Fugon (spelling?) and some other melta guys, as well as a psycher that does some really great buffing/debuffing, and several units of normal troops. If the vehicles didn't kill something, these guys get out and finish the job. Usually Fugon does the same as the Wraithknight and picks something to reliably kill, as he gets BS7 split-fire 2 extended-range melta shots.

 

I'm just stumped. I felt shell-shocked after playing this list last night. I don't want to make a list tailored to defeat another one, but clearly I have to take this into consideration because we're both going to a tournament in about a month.

 

I don't want to spend £100 buying new models from games workshop just to beat this list, so 3x Centurions in a Landraider aren't an option. This is the list I used last night:

 

HQ

• Tigurius (Warmaster) 
• Librarian - Mastery Level 2, Auspex, Jump Pack

Troops

• Tactical Squad x8
• Tactical Squad x5 - Meltagun, Combi-melta, Drop Pod
• Scout Squad x10 - Sniper Rifles x9, Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks
• Scout Squad x5 - Vet Sarge with Power Sword & Melta Bombs, Land Speeder Storm
• Scout Squad x5 - Vet Sarge with Power Sword & Melta Bombs, Land Speeder Storm

Elites

• Sternguard x8 - Rhino with Dozer Blades

Fast Attack

• Assault Marines x5
• Bike Squad x3 - 2x Grav Guns, Melta Bombs
• Landspeeder - Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta

Heavy Support

• Devastator Squad x5 - 4x Missile Launchers with Flakk
• Devastator Squad x5 - 4x Missile Launchers with Flakk

 

One thing my opponent suggested was Armour - apart from Fugon & Friends he doesn't really have anything to beat AV14. I was toying with allying in some Guard to help me out, maybe that's a good idea. But I need to find a way to somehow survive his initial onslaught.

 

Advice here would be beyond welcomed... please help!

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Hey man,

 

I'll try and recommend ideas based off changing upgrades in your list, swapping things around and generally buying as little new stuff as possible since you obviously don't wanna do that. At the moment, your list suffers a little from a jack-of-all-trades syndrome - you have units that can take on anything, but not necessarily as well as you'd like them to, and they're often on their own in their chosen role. In 40k, a unit on its own is

 

It's a good solid idea to have so many scoring Troops units. I would say that the power swords on the Scout sergeants are a waste of points. You don't want them in close combat with Sv 3+ units, in fact you don't really want Scouts in combat at all. The squads in the Storms should either be outfitted for a first-turn alpha strike on the enemy's armoured units with melta weapons, or kept in reserve as mid/late-game objective grabbers. If it's not on the table the enemy can't kill it, and Scouts will be even harder to kill if they've got camo cloaks and are sitting on objectives in terrain.

 

Your sniper Scout squad should be prioritising the Wraithknight first and foremost. The ability to wound it on a 4+ along with the possibility of Rending makes them invaluable against Wraithknights and Riptides, just be aware that this squad WILL be targetted by a canny player, and probably with Ignores Cover weaponry. So there needs to be a second, and probably third, unit dedicated to big monster hunting. Your bikes with gravguns and a Sternguard squad in a droppod (give the Tacs the rhino instead) would be ideal for this. Vs a Wraithknight, the Sternguard can use their Hellfire rounds; vs a Riptide, they can use plasma or melta if they have it for an even better effect. If at all possible try and boost the numbers on the bike squad, as again, a canny player will see the threat gravguns pose to his heavy units and take them out straight away.

 

You're spending a hell of a lot of points on HQ. Tigurius is a beast in his own right. He doesn't need support if you've planted him in the right place on the field (in cover with a unit to absorb wounds, either objective-holding Tacticals or Devastators). Remember if he gets the Ignore Cover power (Perfect Timing) he can ONLY give it to the unit he's attached to, so bear that in mind when deploying him.

 

The assault Marines are a nice tough, but - sorry to say it - useless in a competitive environment in small numbers and with meagre equipment such as they have. They, and the Librarian who you're deploying with them, will get cut down rapidly even if they are buffed with psychic powers. Similarly for the Land Speeder - either go doubles or nothing, one alone will die extremely fast.

 

I would actually cut the second Librarian, the Assault squad and the flakk missiles from the Devastators (way too expensive) and purchase an Aegis defence line (for Ultramarines, these are invaluable) and look into bringing something else into your list. What else do you have access to? Vindicators? More drop pods? You could boost the numbers on the Tactical squads to max capacity to ensure that they hold objectives, but whatever else you add to your list should either reinforce the target-hunting Sternguard or add to your gunline of Devastators backed up by Tigurius. If I could cherrypick I'd say take a second squad of Sternguard in a pod, have both squads pod in, and buy a third pod for one of the Tac squads to a) keep it off the board slightly longer and b ) ensure that both Sternguard squads arrive turn 1.

 

And if you do happen to have access to more bikes, they can't hurt - they pose a very real threat to Wraithknights, MEQ/TEQ and Riptides when equipped with gravguns, and can wreck Wave Serpents (the Eldar transport you mentioned) without allowing them cover saves. I know these are expensive, though.

 

Just my 2 imperial credits. Hope some of this is helpful. I know exactly how you feel against the Eldar - I played my first game against the new Codex this last Sunday, and ended up putting a big dent in his force before a single Wraithknight showed up and flipped the game around.

 

Arkhan

[Jonah]

Thanks Arkhan, I really appreciate the feedback.

 

The Speeder Scouts never actually landed on the board as I gave up on my second turn (I outflanked them). The Heavy Flamers on the Storms would have dealt a great deal of damage which was some consolation. I agree that PW-wielding scouts is a bit crazy, but they're not meant to take on units by themselves, they're meant to jump into other combats to tip the balance in my favour. At 130 points for the whole unit I think they're a bargain and I'm keen to at least try them out as they are, but I agree if they don't work in practice that's 30 points I can easily take back.

 

The sniper scouts did indeed get shot at by a Wave Serpent (thanks for the name), 5 of them died and the rest fled, meaning they never got to shoot. The bikers suffered a similar fate but they at least got to shoot a grav gun before going down.

 

I still have spare Dark Vengeance box-sets and found some relatively cheap grav guns on ebay so I'm looking to drop the landspeeder in favour of:

• Bike Squad x5 - 2x Grav Guns, Melta Bombs
• Bike Squad x5 - 2x Grav Guns, Melta Bombs

I'm 50/50 on Tigurius. I'm toying with the idea of bundling him with the scouts, or dropping him in favour of a Captain/Master on a bike & Relic Blade/Burning Sword. If he charged a monster that was at the wrong end of the Grav Guns he could get the initiative advantage. I think the army lacks a CC specialist and this guy could be a real power-house, so either:

1. Chapter Master - Bike, Burning Blade (205)
2. Captain - Bike, Burning Blade (165)

This would also make the 2 bike squads scoring, which is a huge bonus, and I can drop the naked 8-man tactical squad as it was meant to be +8 Wounds for Tigurius.

 

The JP Librarian & Co. is a really cool unit, and one of the few that actually did any damage. His Enfeeble was very important and he also rolled Haemorrhage, which is an insane combo vs Eldar. I know it was really lucky to roll that but he's a very mobile & fun unit that I'm keen to use again, and I think backing up the Master/Captain he could be really useful (if I drop Tigurius).

 

I agree about the Devs, they are cool but way too expensive for such a relatively squishy unit. I'm probably going to replace them with:

• Dreanought - 2x Twin-linked Autocannons
• Dreanought - 2x Twin-linked Autocannons

I have very nice models for these and they work out as being 100 points cheaper than the Devs. Their twin-linked guns give them a chance against flyers too.

 

I don't have more Drop pods or Sternguard (only recently bought the latter). I don't like the idea of suiciding one of my most expensive units, so I'd like to keep them in a Rhino.

 

All these changes leave me at 1685 with a Master or 1645 with a Captain or Tigurius. I could take the Aegis Line as you suggest, which Tigurius or a Scout could fire. Why are they so good with UM? Or perhaps I could get the wallet out and get one of those space marine fliers to make up for the lack of AA.

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

My concern is that you end up splitting your force into the worst of two worlds. I recommend you get as many games in vs Eldar and Tau as possible as they are going to be your/our hardest matchups as Marines (with regards to Chaos, I would say as long as you have a reliable answer to Heldrakes, you have stronger options in your list than they do to win a ground war). I'm especially wary of the assault squad with a Librarian because it really is very easy to kill seven wounds worth of Space Marines in a single turn of shooting (hell, even with a single unit). They will also face problems against some of the Eldar combat options as they're slower than Eldar combat specialists. I look forward to hearing how they fare, but you may find it tricky to keep them alive.

 

My feeling is that Tigurius should be an auto-take if you're decided on UM Chapter Tactics. I don't know how you're using him, but I've found him most effective at the heart of a gunline combining a Contemptor Mortis, Vindicator, Tactical squad and Devastator squad (this is not the strongest potential gunline by any means, I just list it as my own personal experience). His best powers are Prescience, Perfect Timing (ignores cover) and Misfortune (re-roll all successful saves), and this goes doubly for Eldar, who are fragile to begin with. In a given turn you can have him cast Prescience, use his Storm of Fire warlord trait to ensure two units are firing at max potential, and then give his own unit Ignores Cover whilst the enemy unit you really want dead (hint: Wraithknight) gets Misfortune cast on it. Psychic powers are not reliable by any means, but with the re-rolls he gets from the Hood of Hellfire his are as reliable as they come outside of Eldar Farseers. He is a force multiplier, so if you're not building a force which can take full advantage of his buffs, you won't see the most use out of him.

 

I meant to say that UMs benefit from an Aegis with Tigurius in mind, by the way - I should have said a Tigurius list benefits from an Aegis as he can man the quadgun and have all his precious buffed units around him protected by its 4+ cover save.

 

The other thing with the new Marines (and with 6th ed and 40k in general) is that one of the best things a general can do is provide his enemy with an oversaturation of targets. A single unit of Sternguard in a pod will die pretty fast. A gunline with Vindicators, Devastators, Dreadnoughts and Tigurius, supported by a drop pod assault, poses an issue for any player as they're  forced to choose to either concentrate  fire on your gunline or your podders, or split their force to deal with each separately (and risk weakening their overall effectiveness). Unfortunately Eldar are an army that can split their concentration very well indeed so you'll have to playtest how your army works and find the best playstyle for you - I'd be interested to see if Sternguard in a Rhino work for you as I've never considered it myself.

 

Arkhan

[tdemayo]

<p>Here's some advice, both list-building and tactical. Given the limitations of your budget and collection you may find the list hard to change, but hopefully just identifying some of issues will help you as you build your collection and play.<br />

<br />

Your force selection is, unfortunately, a nearly perfect mismatch for mechanized Eldar. You've got mostly guys on foot, in smallish units, and no transports to protect them. Every Wave Serpent can put out 6-13 shots a turn that wound you on 2+s. Cover is pretty much useless for your infantry, since they have a better armor save than most cover provides and/or the WS shield just ignores them anyway. I think you might find rhinos or razorbacks a useful choice. Scatter lasers, shuriken cannons and the shields are only strength 6 or 7, and will need a turn or two to kill even a moderate number of light vehicles. Putting the rhinos or whatever behind or in cover will also help against everything but the shield shots. Full squads of 10 would also help your dudes survive. At 10, he will have to concentrate fire to completely annihilate a unit. Keep the important weapons in the back, let the front dudes soak up hits.<br />

<br />

Wave Serpents are hugely annoying, since they are fast, have a 4+ cover save, and can ignore penetrating hits. They must be glanced to death, most of the time. However, they are only AV 12, which is mediocre. (Ask a Dreadnaught.) Your best bet is a lot of cheap krak missiles and plasma guns. You can even fire them both out of the top hatch of a rhino. My preferred tac squad has a ML, plasmagun and combi plas. So I'd be hitting the WS with ML when it's over 24", ML and plasma when it's in 24", and pop combiplas as soon as it reaches 12" If (or when) he fires his shield at you, that transport can no longer ignore penetrating hits. Make those transports your priority target. Stack fire on the most threatening or vulnerable WS until it is dead, dead, dead (or at least Immobilized). Only then use your fire on another one.<br />

<br />

You cannot expect to kill ALL the WSs before they arrive at your lines. However, every one of them you kill will leave the squads in them staggered about the battlefield where you can pick them off with anti-infantry weaponry -- or maybe just ignore them. You want to prevent them from hitting your force with a coordinated strike of a bunch of WSs together with the guys in them (and maybe the Wraithknight) all at the same time. So just immobilizing, delaying or spreading them out will help you.<br />

<br />

The rear armor is vulnerable, but hard to reach. You have some Assault Marines -- do you have any meltaguns to spare? It's not optimal, but you _could_ DS them behind a WS and melta it in the butt. If he tries to hide its butt against the table edge -- well, that's one turn it's not advancing on you. Same with outflanking bikers or second turn drop pods. Another thing to remember -- WSs are terribly vulnerable to assault by any Marine. Skimmers are no longer harder to hit than normal vehicles in hand to hand, and all strikes are against the rear armor value of 10. If he pulls up into your face, unwisely, you can punish him.<br />

<br />

Speaking of face: the goal of his build of Eldar is to shoot you to bits as he closes with his WSs. Then, once you are weakened, he will want to disembark and fire all the WSs and all the transported squads at you in a concentrated volley of death. His major tactical problem is deciding exactly when and where to make this strike. If he makes his too early, or in the wrong place, you will be able to punish him for it, destroy his squishy units and wreck his vehicles. If, however, he waits too long, hanging back to shoot you, he may lose WSs and squads to your shooting, and end up with too little to kill your men and take your objectives. The turn after he disembarks is his major turn of vulnerability. Everything is now out of the transports, and is generally pretty squishy. The WSs themselves may be vulnerable to rear shots or charges. Knowing this, you should aim to inflict gradual attrition on his serpents at range, while protecting your tactical marines or other elements by hiding them behind terrain or in transport, but with the aim of moving them out the turn he disembarks and rapid-firing at his disembarking troops. If you can roll up a rhino or two, jump out and 12" rapid fire into the face, any aspect squad or guardian squad will likely become a smear.  Try to keep your forces close enough together that they can all participate in your counter-punch.<br />

<br />

You didn't say what kind of Wraithknight he's fielding. It comes in three basic flavors -- one of them has two gigantic Str 10 guns. That version is good for killing tanks, but largely stinks against infantry. If he has the anti-tank Wraithknight, you're unlikely to benefit from any investment in ground vehicles besides some cheap, protective transports. The second kind of Wraithknight is more common; it has a three shot str 6 plasma cannon and a 5+ shield. It is great at murdering space marines of any sort, from a distance, but is not much better than a scatterlaser at killing tanks. If he has this version of Wraithknight, you might benefit from some heavy armor, with an AV of 13 or 14, set up to fire long-distance, as his only recourss against it will be to fly Feugan into your backfield and get out to shoot them -- a move which will shortly see Feugan and all his little orange buddies die to retributive short-ranged bolter fire. An Aegis or other form of reliable cover will also assist in reducing the number of casualties you take from the plasma WK, too. The third type of Wraithknight has a huge sword and a 5+ forcefield. It is largely useless, and you are unlikely to see one. If you do -- it's pretty much a melee unit, and will flying at your face.<br />

<br />

The Wraithknights are scary-looking, but I'm not convinced they are all that awesome for their points. They are largely indestructable, but have a comparatively low damage output for a 240-300 pt model. In shooting, the anti-tank WK will kill at most 1 tank a turn with its gun. The plasma version will need probably two turns to kill a spread out unit of 10 marines in cover. In hand to hand combat, they have a str 10, ap 2 and will autosquash anyone without eternal warrior. However, they only get a piddly 4 attacks (5 charging) at WS 4. So half the time, the giant elf robot will miss a normal tactical marine. In hand to hand, it will be killing 2 guys a turn. That's not very impressive. Or it could murder a vehicle, after which it is stuck there. The Wraithknight is hard to kill, but is more fragile than anything that hugemongous should be. T8 is roughly equivalent to armor 12, so it will be roughly as hard to take down as a two dreadnaughts. It is also uniquely vulnerable to certain kinds of weapons like poison, rending or sniper. Anything that wounds on a fixed number, like 2+ or 4+ turns it into a big, 6W Space Marine.<br />

<br />

The WK is only worth its points to your opponent if it draws shots away from the more dangerous parts of his army, and towards its big, indestructible roboty self, or denies you an objective. My best advice is just to ignore it until you have absolutely no other choice. Your opponent is quite likely to hesitate bringing his Wraithknight close enough to be locked in melee or shot to death with rapidfiring plasma. He will probalby wait until you are saturated with targets, mostly dead, or it's turn 5 before bringing it in close. Then (and only then) turn every gun on it and vaporize it. Or hit it with some thunder hammers.<br />

<br />

Finally, it's worth noting that his list is also a bit vulnerable to heavy air power. The WSs can TL their shields and give moderate Str 6-7 AA fire, but they will struggle against larger numbers of AV 12 flyers.<br />

<br />

Tom</p>

[Lysere]

I'd like to clarify since people keep saying they "ignore" pens, they simply turn them into glances when the shield is up and they don't roll a one. This means very little other then you will need to focus your shooting on them to finish them off quickly, or just get lucky and slip past the shield. Also the wraithknight is quite tough, but good spacing of units and some grav/plasma focus can see him dead. Since your opponent is paying for that invulnerable save he also loses out on another big gun with which to shoot you.

 

Also definitely hiding inside rhinos is a good call, just means that many less shots he can throw at you in a single volley since if he does kill it everything else it used to shoot with isn't killing your men.

[Jonah]

Thanks for the feedback, it's all becoming a lot clearer now. The Wraithknight is the one with the psuedo plasma cannon.

 

I was struggling with how to deploy Tigurius, but 'center of a gunline' unlocked it for me. I totally missed his warlord trait which is possibly the only useful one in the bunch. He's back in the list.

 

My gunline is now looking more like:

• Tigurius
• Sniper / ML Scouts x10
• 2x Autocannon Dreds (or 1 Dred & 1 Dev squad without Flakk)
• Aegis line

Behind this sits the Sternguard Rhino, and behind that is a fast CC unit. They wait for the enemy to come close and then pounce. My options are:

• Biomancy ML 2 Libby with JP & 5x Assault Marines
• Captain on Bike with Artificer & Burning Blade

I'm leaning towards the captain because he has more offensive power and makes the biker squads troops. I could also give him a Grav pistol. On the turn him and the Sternguard pounce, Tigurius could 'twin-link' them both using his trait to make the strike even harder.

 

On that subject, the rules say you have to use psychic powers 'at the start of the psycher's movement phase'. Does that mean the Sternguard can disembark and then a Libby can bless them? Or not?

 

Back to the formation, I'd ideally keep a group of 5 bikers with Grav Guns and a Scout Speeder on each flank, and the Podding melta team lands at the back. These can't be ignored as they're all scoring and potentially very lethal. Forcing the enemy to split their fire and give me another turn of shooting with the gunline.

 

Edit:

 

I can actually afford a Chapter Master if I drop some Melta Bombs so I think I'll go with that, so Tigurius can 'twin link' his orbital strike and he gets +1W and attacks. Well worth 40 points!

[FlameAnvil]

1) Thou shalt ne'er dismount from thy sacred steel coffin. Doing so is equal to doing the enemy's work. He cannot hurt thou until he hast dismounted thou power armored asses from thy rhinos, and all thy most fearsome weapons are usable from thy blessed rhino hatch of potent power and might.

2) Thou shalt fear no evil, for thou art fear incarnate, but thou shalt not let this power go to thine head. Thou shalt respect the enemy as thou respect thy own forces, for arrogance leads to thine own downfall, and the perfunctory loss of massive chunks of thine army to 'only lasguns,' and 'puny long-ranged meltaguns,' or 'that immobilized chaos dread in the corner.'

3) Whilst thine sacred, holy, blessed space marines are an elite force, the likes of which has ne'er been seen prior to, nor since, strength is still to be found in numbers. For whilst a solitary squad of thine most esteemed sternguard will fall versus a score of chaos marines, 3 squads shall not.

4) Thou shalt ensure thou uses the enemy's strengths and weaknesses against them equally. If thine foe is strong up close, thou shall prevent him from getting there. If he is slow and plentiful, thou wilst thin his ranks with potshots, whilst biding thine time to lay into him with tankshock, sacred heavy flamer, and assaults on thine terms. If he is powerful at range, you will drive towards him most fearlessly, making careful use of terrain, smoke launchers, the superior armor value of thine vigilant and invincible predators, and bunkering up where his guns are the thinnest. If his numbers be but few yet strong in spirit and body, thou shalt focus fire on one unit at a time, until it is no more. If the enemy is fast, thou shall present him with a wall of rhinos shielding thy sacred space marine infantry, and careful placement and redeployment to make his valiant efforts for victory futile. If thou art facing thine British Firing Line, pummel them with devastators and then assault them in many different places. Thine foe's supporting fire shalt make an arse out of you if thou don't.

5) Thou shalt not, under any circumstance, allow the vile enemy to have her or his way. If faced with a charge from a score of ork boyz, thou shalt famously unload thy blessed boltpistols and holy promethium from thine flamers into their ranks, and thereafter take the charge most gloriously and defyingly, denying them the initiative, all charging bonuses, and catching the enemy commander unprepared, for yours is the gear, the profile, and the abilities to turn certain death into certain victory for the glory of the Emperor.

6) Thou will fight on all ground, in all terrain, on all fields of combat, and thou wilt do so with stubborn cunning, and the unrelenting, unlimited imagination held by all human beings. Thou wilt use the pieces of the board for all they're worth, and attacking the flanks of any entrenched, isolated firebase with no doubt or hesitation in mind, for it takes a lot of autocannons to guarantee the kill of even a single rhino, and thou wilt field at least 4 at all times.

7) The only way to waste firepower is to be out of range.

8) Thou shalt always hold the initiative. Thou shalt press on, and use thine forces expertly, while applying pressure to the enemy from the flanks, the rear, and the front - anywhere it is possible. Thou shalt never remain immobile, for giving up thy movement is tantamount to rolling over like a bitch, and presenting thy previously mentioned power armored ass to the enemy.

9) Thine space marines are few in numbers, yet strong and reliable. They will hold the line where lesser men may not, and survive firepower that would render any ordinary squad dead. Thou shalt trust in thine power armor, thine krak grenades, holy boltgun, boltpistol, and thine most underestimated frag grenade, for few of the foe's elite are as royally equipped as thine grunts, or as capable of using them.

10) Thou shalt learn to appreciate a very powerful, versatile, unfocused profile, for yours is the strength and power of three lesser men, contained in one package. Where a man may be exceptional at shooting or combat, thine grunts are capable of both in equal measure, and blessed with the gear to make both a reality.

11) Whilst a plasma gun will ignore thy power armor, it will not ignore thy high leadership, or thy sacred cover save. Unless you elect to fall back, you will hold most stubbornly on a consistent basis.

12) Cowardice is naught but an illusion of lesser men. The popular sentiment is 'he who runs away lives to fight another day.' This is not so. He who runs away lives to rapid fire bolters against the foe that made him run away.

13) Knowledge is power, but power is useless if it's not being put to use. Study thy opponent's tome of lore and wisdom. Read it again, closer. Put the words to mind, so thou wilt not hesitate that destroyers are indeed toughness 5, and a krak missile thusly wilst not inflict instant death upon it.

14) Thou shalt ne'er do the opponent's work for him. While the lesser races, such as eldar, are wont to kill their own units with Yriel's eye of death, you know better. Thou shalt not ever, under any circumstance, nuke too close to your own units, or 'assault' with a depleted 3 man tactical squad - no! For that tactical squad shall hide inside the nearby, immobilized rhino, so that thy foe has to dig them out to score the killpoint, and make thy 3 space marines stop firing bolters.

15) Though it may take a lesser foe 10 shots fired to damage armor, thy space marines bring melta, and thy blessed profile gives thou a significantly higher chance to score hits, cutting the necessary firepower down considerably. Thou wilt not forget this, for it is the mark of a fool to focus too little or too much dakka and manpower on the task of destroying a single chimera.

16) Thou shalt not load up on tactical marines, for it weakens your army immensely. Thine two mandatory meltabunkers are plenty, and thy further troops slots shalt only ever be employed in case thou needeth more plasmaback ]."

 

just some basic tactics not 100% related to eldar, also its funny so i thought I would share.

[Jonah]

Thanks for the tips :)

 

Just played my 3rd game and it went much better.

 

The game started very well despite my very first action, which would ultimately cost me the game - I won roll-off for going first, and decided to do so. The last 2 games my opponent had gone first and he slaughtered me, but still this was an objective game so I shouldn't have let him go 2nd. Lesson learned!

 

My Melta-Pod landed behind a Serpent and blew it up first turn - amazing! I didn't realise their 'Ignore Pens on 2+' doesn't work on rear armour. I was stoked. His 5 troops had to pile out and walk up the board for the rest of the game. They were the T6 things that had template AP2 shooting, which would have been ouch.

 

The only thing my army could shoot at was the WraithKnight, which I had planned on ignoring in favour of the serpents, but what can you do. I brought it down to 3 wounds by shooting everything I had (10 scouts, 2 Auto Dreads and a Quad Gun) which made me happy.

 

He moved his 3 remaining Serpents up the flanks and brought 2 squads of 3 jetbikes in from reserve, leaving them behind cover in his deployment zone for the rest of the game so I couldn't get them. In my second turn I used Tigurius' warlord trait to twin-link my Master's orbital barrage, which aimed for the T6 dudes that were headed for an objective after eating the melta boys. They all fit snuggly under the large blast, surely this was a game-winning strike... 1st roll scatters 10 inches away, 2nd roll scatters 12. I was a very unhappy bunny.

 

Never mind. My Sternguard rode up the flank they had deployed on, parking behind some ruins that Fuegon's Serpent would later also park behind, but on the other side. They eventually got out and blew up the rhino, and I made my 2nd mistake - the remaining 5 Sternguard shot at the Fire Dragons instead of charging them. 10 rapid-fire AP4 shots, 4 hits, 4 wounds. He made three 5+ cover saves, leaving only 1 dead. They then ran off and mutilated one of my dreads, taking one of his arms off. Huge mistake! Fuegon charged the remaining Sternguard who stood their ground for 3 rounds of combat (I challenged him to a duel) but he ultimately ran off and took that whole flank, killing 2 bikes I'd left on an objective.

 

My other mistake was running my Master to the other flank (away from Fuegon) to deal with the other 2 Serpents that were full of Dire Avengers and were busy laying waste to the scouts and bikes I'd left there. He dealt with them by killing a squad on his own but he spent far too many turns not in combat - I was always afraid of running him out to get shot by the Knight.

 

It all came down to turn 5, with me holding 2 objectives (Tigurius & scouts on 1, a 5-man scout squad on the other) and my opponent holding the other 2. He flew his jetbikes over 1 to contest at the end (my fault again for not surrounding it, but those things have a ridiculous turbo boost!). I also would have finished the Knight off if he hadn't denied my misfortune cast on it, it went down to 1 wound in the end.

 

The game ended on Turn 5 with a loss to me, but I'm pretty sure I'd have won on Turn 6. His Knight and remaining Avengers would have gone down easily to the Master & Heavy Flamer Speeder, leaving 4 bikes to shoot off of 2 different objectives and a 4-man sniper team, quad gun, Tigurius and 2 autocannon dreads to do the job.

 

My thoughts on the units involved:

 

• Tiguirus - Held :cuss together, excellent gunline commander.
• Chapter Master (Bike, Burning Sword) - Amazing, just used him wrong. Needs to be more aggressive.
• Melta Pod team - Awesome, well worth the points.
• Sniper Scouts - Paired with Tigurius' Prescience and an Aegis Line they were a real rock. There's an interesting choice to make during deployment - should Tigurius go with them so he's more protected, or should they be seperate so they can shoot different targets? I wasted a couple of turns when the Quad Gun popped its target, leaving the scouts unable to fire.
• Speeder scouts - Excellent maneuverability and objective-grabbing. I wished the boats had a gun to fire, the HF is ace (and free) but they spent a lot of time hiding. I'll try this configuration again but it might be worth putting Multi-Meltas on them instead of the Sargeant's getting Power Swords.
• Auto-Dreads - Consistently blew stuff up. Being the Aegis Line they were excellent, but I suspect they won't last long against a proper gunline.
• Sternguard - I didn't use them right, again. I think they could be great but I could probably take something better for the points.

In summary... I feel a lot better vs Eldar, and I'm looking forward to trying this list against other opponents. The mystery of the Wave Serpents has been solved - melta them in their behinds and pour twin-linked S7 shots into them. And the Knight isn't too bad so long as you keep things in cover and are very careful about spacing them out.

[Ishagu]

Flame Anvil...

 

That was all gold

[d@n]

The wraith knight dies to sniper rifles Sternguards and I suspect grave weapons. The wave serpents can be taken care of with powerfists on assault squats or biker sargeants

[Azash]

I would suggest you try out the use of Whirlwinds or TFC's. The latter now has barrage as well. Highly effective against xeno armies. You can them synergize your units you have your tank popping units then you have a your troop killing units. It also gives you range which forces your opponent to push towards you. Then you can work units designed to kill things that opponents typically push at you with.

[FlameAnvil]

In terms of the Sternguards you could try some Assault Terminators with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields (THSS). They will eat a lot of fire power from everything on the board...and they will live.  Also believe harder in the EPMRAH...needed one more wound to kill a Talos Pain engine, believed so hard it worked :D. It just seams you lost to luck, not much I could add to help you.  Also what is the 8 man tac squad doing? 

[Jonah]

In terms of the Sternguards you could try some Assault Terminators with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields (THSS). They will eat a lot of fire power from everything on the board...and they will live. Also believe harder in the EPMRAH...needed one more wound to kill a Talos Pain engine, believed so hard it worked . It just seams you lost to luck, not much I could add to help you. Also what is the 8 man tac squad doing?

Termies are an idea... I was thinking my list is missing a tank. The 8-man tac squad was a +8 Wounds for Tigurius in an early version of the list, which was a very bad idea. He is now with the Scout squad giving them Prescience re-rolls and occasionally ignores cover, which works really well.

On the subject of tanking I really like the 30-man guard blob with a Lord Commissar attached. The enemy really has to pour a lot of wounds into them and as troops they can't be ignored. If I allied them in I'd also get access to a Vendetta, which would give me some Air attacks (and soak up even more attacks).

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Have to say, Sternguard are one of our best weapons vs. Eldar and you'd be mad to drop them entirely from your list. They are outfitted either to murder Wraithknights (Hellfire ammunition) or be a dedicated armour hunting unit (combi-meltas) or a Wraithguard hunting unit (combi-plasmas, Hellfire rounds). Wraithguard are the T6 things you were talking about, by the way. I can't agree on the Terminators because they literally are one of the easiest 'elite' units for Eldar to kill. AP2 is not exactly a rarity in an Eldar list and you're not going to be fielding that many of them. A unit of Sternguard can at least do horrendous damage before it gets taken down, Terminators have to rely on expensive transportation or enemy ineptitude to get close enough to do their job.

 

Well done on the closer game. Be aware that the Eldar player won't let you get a second crack at his rear armour like that. I think you've got his number next time :)

[FlameAnvil]

 

 

Termies are an idea... I was thinking my list is missing a tank. The 8-man tac squad was a +8 Wounds for Tigurius in an early version of the list, which was a very bad idea. He is now with the Scout squad giving them Prescience re-rolls and occasionally ignores cover, which works really well.

 

On the subject of tanking I really like the 30-man guard blob with a Lord Commissar attached. The enemy really has to pour a lot of wounds into them and as troops they can't be ignored. If I allied them in I'd also get access to a Vendetta, which would give me some Air attacks (and soak up even more attacks).

What tank would you take? It appears you do not have a lot of armor, 3 land speeders, 2 dreads? You could add a predator, he does not appear to have long range anti-tank, I tend to avoid running one av 13+ tank if you only have one it attracts all the anti armor, But a predator will fit nicely behind an aegis and pump out a lot of shots. Its your call. The IG idea looks good, is a Lord Commissar BS:4? if he is put the 30 man blob on an objective near your Quad gun, and have him shoot. 

[Jonah]

What tank would you take? It appears you do not have a lot of armor, 3 land speeders, 2 dreads? You could add a predator, he does not appear to have long range anti-tank, I tend to avoid running one av 13+ tank if you only have one it attracts all the anti armor, But a predator will fit nicely behind an aegis and pump out a lot of shots. Its your call. The IG idea looks good, is a Lord Commissar BS:4? if he is put the 30 man blob on an objective near your Quad gun, and have him shoot. 

 

Actually I meant a unit that fills the role of a 'tank', as in they absorb incoming fire, rather than a literal tank. That's what the 30-man squad does; it's 30 stubborn wounds that take a huge hammering and can tarpit/take objectives with ease. I like the idea of sitting them in the Aegis line (the Lord is indeed BS4) although they are better at footslogging up the board as they become a more tempting target, and thus fulfilling their tank role. This is meant to be a tournament list though, and I don't fancy pushing 30 extra models around the board with a strict time limit on.

 

I feel like I understand the Eldar much better now, so my next task is to play other armies with the same list and see what my other weaknesses are.

[FlameAnvil]

Oh, I see. The only think I don't like about a big blob is pie plates could eat that unit quick, but I suppose they are there to die. Well good luck with other armies you face brother!

[L30n1d4s]

I think a couple Stormtalons might be an option, now that you have taken a Bike CM and made your Bikers into Troops options. Using Stafing Run for BS5 and TLed Assault Cannon and Typhoon Missile Launcher gives you the possibility of up to 6 hits with S6 rending and S8 weapons per Stormtalon, quite plausibly Glancing a Wave Serpent down in each volley.

 

If you do this, recommend you use them in pairs or more, both for redundancy and target saturation for your opponent. Conveniently, these aircraft can gang up on the Wraithknight or engage enemy aircraft if you finish off all of the Wave Serpents. They are also pretty affordable, being only slightly more expensive than the Wave Serpents you are up against.

[Seahawk]

Legion of the Damned is a perfect answer.

 

- They ignore all cover saves.

- They melt tanks with 3 melta-weapons.

- They can fairly safely land behind units.

- They can tank Wraithknight shots, Fuegan, and so on.

 

Check my link for more tips! (if you want to consider them)

[Emperors Immortals]

Great reports there, I'm loving reading the new codex learning curves :)

 

Off the top of my head,

 

Keep sternguatd, there just too versatile not to take.

 

LoTD are relentless so that MM ia always firing

 

Terminators are just not efficient enough, ot sucks because i have 40 I love them so much.

 

I also second the talons, cheap and multi role with some great loadouts and rules.

 

 

 

Keep the write ups coming, and good luck :)

 

 

P.s; read Seahawks tactica, it covers it all.

[Ishagu]

Stormtalons are too delicate.

A single Stormraven is a better investment.