So, Devestator Centurions, then.

[Montuhotep]

Simple query whether lascannon, heavy bolter or grav + amp flavours:

 

 Are they as good as the hype or is GW trying to make us all buy yet another expensive and useless unit?

[Son of Carnelian]

They're situational. Grav Guns plus grav amps will WRECK power armor and terminator armor. However, Centurions have no invulnerable save, so keeping them in cover or on a Skyshield might be prudent. Personally, I think I will get a pack of three of them, give two of them grav guns + amps, and give the sergeant lascannons and an omniscope. That way he can deal with armor while the other two chew up infantry. 

[minigun762]

I ran the numbers and in terms of absolute firepower, a pair of five man Devs with LCs puts out more damage than 3 Centurions with TLLC and ML for 10-20 points more depending on if you take the omniscope.

 

Centurion's advantage is mobility and a single FOC slot.

[Captain Idaho]

I'd love to get some Grav-cannons into an army, but they are so expensive and also so short ranged. Basically I'd be scared if I came up against my mate's Tau and he just killed them over 2 turns using Hammerheads etc and I didn't even get into range!

 

Using Tigurius and ensuring I get the Gate Power could work, but then there'd be a good chance I'd need to use the whole Discipline for all my powers, and Telekinesis is just a little bit rubbish. 

[DarkGuard]

I'd quite like to run a unit of grav cannons with Tiggy, until then I'm using footslogging Sternguard.

 

The heavy bolter variant isn't great, the ML/LC sounds awesome, until you factor in points cost. That leaves the grav cannon unit, which melts heavily armoured units with ease, but is itself vulnerable to similar weapons. 

 

I reckon that used correctly, and built sensibly, they could be a good unit.

[El_Jairo]

I have to agree that they are somewhat situational. In my mind much depends on the meta you see in your neighbourhood.

They also sit in the group with a whopping 11 competitors for the 3 FOC slots.

I feel they can be effective if they are (as always) well integrated in your list. The Grav Cannons do looks very good on paper but the fact that they lack range and any affordable transportation makes them mostly useless for 2-3 turns if your opponent has mobility.

The fact that they lack any Inv. save is quite disturbing if you see the cost for 6 wounds. A good thing is their T5 so instant kill will be less frequent. I didn't check their actual size but I think they should be able to hide behind a Rhino, right? With a flat out move, you can keep them covered pretty all of the time. But again castling enemies I do see the Grav-Cannons suffer a lot because it can be a long walk over there.

Now if they could deep strike, then they would rock! Maybe they are a good payload for a Stromraven? But still I'm not yet convinced buy the fact that Grav-Cannons do seem like improved Plasma Guns. So it could mean that your tacticals and other troops should specialize more in handling hordes.

Many things to be tested...

A good point of minigun762, keep in mind that Centurions have 4 wounds less than the 2 Dev squads. On the other hand, if you combine them with a lot of 2+ saves in your army you might saturate the AP2 weapons of your opponent. Sadly, mass fire power will overcome 2+ saves anyways. I say sad because I remember the coolness of a terminator with a cyclone missile launcher in Chaos Gate. That was just epic. Literally everything bounced of its armour while he popped one Chaos Marine after the other.

Back on topic:

So for now my vote goes to more boots on the ground if possible and I'll try out some Grav-Guns to see in those Grav weapons are worth the effort.

My tendency is to rolling as much dice as possible as I hate to be depended of that one roll. I do have the impression that my luck improves with rolling more dice.

[Azash]

I think they are not a win the game by themselves unit but no units really are. It depends on list synergy. Pair your cent devs with grav cannons with a pair of WW/TFC's and no infantry model on the board is safe from your backfield. Then you have to fill in that hole of pin point long range anti armor.

 

If you use them for your long range anti armor/high str low ap then you need to back them up with light infantry and heavy infantry killers.

 

I think we are under estimating a 2+ with no invulns. Apparently not many here face hell turkeyscause if guy you do a comparison with a 5 man Dev squad is laughable. Two 5 man Dev squads just mean dead in two rounds if you keep then as far apart as possible and that's not even considering most lists run at least two.

 

What's better 5 hits wound on 2's no saves at all or 3 hits wound on 3's with 2+ saves?

 

Also multi wound models are better against all template weapons since you maximize your wound pool while minimizing the amount of total wounds your opponent can deal out. Combine that with relentless and you can shuffle the wounded models to the back without effecting there fire output. Thats increased unit longevity a tactic tau suits have been using effectively for a long time.

 

I think what you can't do is expose them in a list to an opponent as the prime target. There has to be other units out there splitting your opponents focus so they have a chance to be effective.

[WarriorFish]

They're the only platform for grav cannons, so that's what I'd like to try out first along with hurricanes for some anti-infantry help and to keep costs down. Their range isn't too much of a big deal as 24" is good enough for what I'm thinking. You won't be able to charge them off to tackle the enemy without support anyway so I'm planning them as a reserve to commit or as a pin for defensive actions. A fair few of my opponents want to close in on my forces anyway so I'll be more than happy to welcome them with open Centurion mitts

[goosey_j]

I've been taking a very long, hard look at these units. Ideally, I would run them as a 3 Grav Cannon unit, or if you wanted a little more flexibility you can outfit the sarge with Las Cannons and the omniscope. Personally I think how you equip them will reflect how they should be deployed and utilised, which I will detail below.

 

Option 1: Defense and Deep Strike response

Centurions work very well as a body guard to your Aegis Defense Line units. Most deep striking/highly mobile ADL threats are packing a 3+ save at least, if not +2. Warp Spiders, Terminators, Crisis Suits, Sternguard etc. All scary tough units you don't want wandering around in your back field messing up your big guns. Grav Centurions will work wonders here. 10 shots with re-rolls to wounds will be enough to see off most squads of deep strikers. If you give your Sergeant Las Cannons and the omniscope then he can plink away at vehicles when there is nothing in range to Grav. It's a nasty unit that definitely will put your enemy off going for your line, but to be useful it has to have something equally as threatening/valuable to protect. If you're going to use them in this configuration then you almost want your enemy to come to you, so you can then kill it.

I have a feeling this will do very well against drop pod armies.

 

Option 2: Mobile Shooting Platform

In this role, I would equip them full grav with hurricane bolters. Supposed to do exactly what's described, get them close to the enemy, and unleash hell. However this is easier said than done. Centurions are slow, and also a very attractive target for S6+ AP2 weapons, especially if those weapons are pie plates. And you do not want your expensive centurions ending up as plasma fodder. So that means we need a transport for them.

 

A.The Land Raider 

The obvious choice, but also expensive and not massively flexible. You will most likely reach what you want to kill with the Centurions in the Land Raider, but after that, then what? You've got three Centurions and a (by now) probably beaten up Land Raider sat in the middle of your enemy's lines. They might survive and go on to wreck face, they might not. It's worth noting that if you do choose to stick them in a Land Raider and drive them up, you will attract a lot of AV fire towards the raider, which can give the rest of your army some breathing space. Alternatively, it might wreck your Land Raider and leave your Centurions stranded. It's a mixed bag. On one side of you have a very tough transport with 3 tough and scary shooty guys inside that can absorb fire power, break lines and cause all sorts of disarray. On the other you have a 500+ point investment in a unit that may fail to get to where it needs to go and not do anything. Or even die.

 

B. The Storm Raven

Now this is where it gets a little interesting. I understand people have reservations about using these, and why wouldn't they. It's a AV12 3HP flier that might not show up till turn 4, costs a fair amount of points and if it crashes will kill whatever is inside. Yikes. So why consider this? Because you can mitigate its main disadvantages, but more importantly because when it enters play it can move up to 60" (assuming zooming and moving flat out), and drop off it's cargo on the same turn using its special rule. The downsides of the special rule can be mitigated by equipping it with a locator beacon, and SM have multiple ways to deal with the unreliability of reserves - Tigurius, coms link, warlord trait or divination (through DA allies) to name some. So theoretically, it's entirely possible to get your Raven in on turn 2, drop the Centurions where they need to be (next to something that needs to die fast), then fly off to shoot whatever it likes. Which is perfect.

Of course, this becomes harder if your opponent has a lot of sky firing interceptor units, or if you don't have a way to guarantee reserve arrival.

 

Each of the transport options for the Centurions have advantages and disadvantages, and I think that more than anything, the composition of the rest of your army will decide the success rate of your Centurions' ability to achieve their mission.

[Disruptor_fe404]

The Storm Raven's own locator beacon won't work till the turn after it enters play, so that's a no-go.

 

Other locator beacons that were on the board at the start of the turn are fine though...

[Stickeh]

Following mixed result with my tac terminators, I'm going to be playing around with a unit of Dev Cents as a bodyguard for Tiggy to anchor a gunline around. They'll have grav cannons and missile launchers and probably a skyshield. 3-4 Tac squads with the heavy weapon portion and these guys is a fair amount of firepower, and with a Stormraven, Stormtalon and the forward portions of those 3-4 tac squads putting pressure on, target priority is going to be a real issue for opponents.

[goosey_j]

The Storm Raven's own locator beacon won't work till the turn after it enters play, so that's a no-go.

 

Other locator beacons that were on the board at the start of the turn are fine though...

I believe you, but where is this written?

[Azash]

I see concerns about getting centurions into position or using them as a suicide drop squad. Do you all think that will be that much of an issue?

 

Even at there shortest range with Grav Cannons they have a 30" range due to relentless. In most deployment scenario's your going to be 24" from your opponent. If you can get to the center of the board which litterally is 2 rounds of moving and shooting you will be able to cover everything but a 6" strip along either short edge.

 

With Grav Cannons they just seem to be made for a center of the board unit. Move up find some cover and camp there for the rest of the game then use relentless to adjust slightly to your opponents response. Where I think they will be particularly vulnerable is early round movements so if your bouncing them form your ADL to a bit of cover they have the potential to be exposed for a round. I think there is way's to mitigate this by walking them up behind a rhino wall. You can even give them a firing gap during the movement phase and then close that gap by maneuvering the Rhino's in the shooting phase.

[Disruptor_fe404]

 

 

I believe you, but where is this written?

 

The Codex. Under 'Locator Beacon'.

[goosey_j]

I see concerns about getting centurions into position or using them as a suicide drop squad. Do you all think that will be that much of an issue?

 

Even at there shortest range with Grav Cannons they have a 30" range due to relentless. In most deployment scenario's your going to be 24" from your opponent. If you can get to the center of the board which litterally is 2 rounds of moving and shooting you will be able to cover everything but a 6" strip along either short edge.

 

With Grav Cannons they just seem to be made for a center of the board unit. Move up find some cover and camp there for the rest of the game then use relentless to adjust slightly to your opponents response. Where I think they will be particularly vulnerable is early round movements so if your bouncing them form your ADL to a bit of cover they have the potential to be exposed for a round. I think there is way's to mitigate this by walking them up behind a rhino wall. You can even give them a firing gap during the movement phase and then close that gap by maneuvering the Rhino's in the shooting phase.

That's a fair comment, but I'd worry about AP2 pie plates. Plenty of armies can bring them, and at range. And a 250 unit in the middle of the board would make a very tempting target.

[goosey_j]

 

 

I believe you, but where is this written?

The Codex. Under 'Locator Beacon'.

How on earth did I miss that. Ah well, like you said, locator beacon on a first turn drop pod were you want land your centurions will still work. Little more finesse to that though.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Indeed. Probably multiples, to give yourself options.

 

And really, we all want locator beacons to work like that!

[aceytrixx]

Im toying with running 3 grav cannons in a Land Raider next weekend. Sure its expensive but ive found my Land Raider to always perform well. It attracts a lot of anti tank and usually takes most of it. This way the centurions will be safe( and taking it as their transport effectivly gives me another heavy support choice) untill they jump out to delete a unit. This unit could also technically target four seperate enemy units with Potms and an omniscope. Works out at 540 points or something crazy but I really want to see how it performs.

[WarriorFish]

Will you be running them with hurricanes to give them some anti-infantry capability? I'm planning on magnetising my Centurions but triple grav cannon is too juicy to pass up so that will probably be my first load out. With such a configuration investing in a transport is worthwhile I'd say to help guarantee delivery and protection. As you said: "delete" is probably the best way to describe what the unit will do to most targets!

The flip side is that you'd have spent a lot of points for not much if your opponent doesn't take MCs and heavy infantry, but with the Omniscope you have the ability to immobilise and potentially know out a couple of vehicles a turn so all is not lost. What Land Raider will you be using? I'd go for a Crusader or maybe Redeemer?

Let us know how it goes, and good luck!

[aceytrixx]

Its a standard pattern raider since thats what I have here. Id love a Redeemer for fluff reasons. Possibly pick one up one day. Im gonna go all in and go for missiles as well. It does mean that it will struggle against light infantry but I think having them as dedicated *Big Nasty Killer* is the way to go. I'll also have Sternguard and an Ironclad podding in turn 1 so that should take some heat off them.

 

EDIT: I'm also thinking about putting my Libby with them. Since I play Salamanders I cant really justify rolling anything other than Pyromancy however if I get lucky with my rolls I am hoping to give my Centurions and 4+ Cover save

[Kaedes Nex]

Every single loadout for the Devastator Centurions strikes me as potentially good. But every single one also makes me hesitant to spend that many points on a squad.

[Balthamal]

When debating what load out to run on them, I think serious consideration needs to be given to which chapter tactics are being used as well. IF with their crazy tank hunter rule makes LC/ML totting centurions a serious proposition when you can form a backfield gun line and blow holes through anything 4ft away on the board

[Giga]

The way I see it, you can either give them lascannons, put them in terrain somewhere, and shoot stuff, or you can give them grav-cannons, put them in a lr, and try to kill stuff at close range.

 

The first option doesn't strike me as particularly awesome, especially with their huge price and people (especially tau) packing lots of cover-denying str10 ap1 stuff. A couple of predators seem more cost-efficient in the same role. 

 

The second option is something that warrants testing. My main gripe with it is that grav-cannons suck vs vehicles and non-MEQ/MC. 

 

There is also the option of putting them in a stormraven, but the risk of it getting shot down... 

[WarriorFish]

Grav doesn't suck against vehicles outright, I see it as more of a spectrum similar to their effectiveness against non-vehicles in that the bigger and tougher it is the better grav becomes. Throw enough luck cubes and you'll get some 6s and let's not forget that immobilising some vehicles is almost as good as destroying them

If I have no primary targets for my grav cannons I'll have no problem turning them on vehicles. Stripping hull points and immobilising will be a great support to other AT action, and grav cannons throw out enough shots for this to be viable. I think that grav's special rule against armour is quite useful as it makes AV/facing become irrelevant.

All that aside, shouldn't grav have one or two weaknesses? I'd have concerns if it didn't, so I don't mind the drawbacks :)

[Azash]

I think centurions make a great way to kill a land raider or other high hp targets. The rerolls on wounds with the grav amp combined with the auto immobilization makes it a favorable numbers game. I think its important to specify grav weapons are more concerned with the HP's not the armor value.

 

Against a LR (or any other 4hp) you have 20 chances to roll three 6's and you get a dead LR.

 

Against HP 3 or less you have 20 chances to roll two 6's and its glanced to death.