Axagoras Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/s/Relic_Scorpius.pdf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3481195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Are Whirlwinds subject to the rule of two like Vindicators or can a single one work? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3482553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azash Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I have found paired whirlwinds work better. Especially if you don't plan on being in line of site of your target. Plus they are still just a rhino in terms of armor an hull points. However it depends on your list if you have lots of meq killing power without the second heavy slot your going to be light on horde so two us better. If you have a decent amount if anti horde (ie typhoons , multiple heavy flamers etc) your better served taking one and using the other two slots for meq killing power. In this case it becomes your ranged blob killer while freeing up points for other heavy choices. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3482606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Orlock Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Are Whirlwinds subject to the rule of two like Vindicators or can a single one work? I found mine worked best alone. They're a psychological weapon more than a physical one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3482668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/s/Relic_Scorpius.pdf I'll be sad when the official rules come out and it's either worse or more expensive points wise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3482752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I usually only need one, and find it good for shelling transports after theyve exploded. I find a second one tends to leave me lacking in LR firepower... but then I play space wolves, so the other two slots are long fangs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3482822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 They get better the more you have as you'd expect, but one is all you need. It's a supporting unit not the main piece :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3482875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyDreadnought Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/s/Relic_Scorpius.pdf I'll be sad when the official rules come out and it's either worse or more expensive points wise. It's more sad that this is pretty much what the normal Whirlwind should be, instead of a mediocre template thrower like it is now. I refer the to the Heavy 1+D3 if stationary rule. Not the hull or the Scorpios warheads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3489087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffTibbetts Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Also bear in mind that when firing a barrage weapon the blast is considered as coming from the hole, so if hes in area terrain that wont help, but if he is camped out behind an aegis or something you can use the full blast and because it lands behind the aegis, he gets no cover save. I am now the proud owner of a second model and will be giving them a whirl (groan) Hahahaha! I just had to laugh at that. Bad puns are the best! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3489638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excubitor Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Just had a game with my 2 whirlwinds on the weekend against someone new trying out a tournament list. They always do a good job for me, and have a bit of a fearsome reputation here. To the point where a club regular walked past, saw me with both of them out, and said to my opponent "dude, your ed!" I won that game, by the way Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3489862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Clearly you didn't use the Incendiary rounds, resulting in a disappointing outcome. May as well have said you left chocolate in a hot car all day and were disappointed when it melted! Whirlwinds were great before, and now even more so. Large blasts tend to hit more than small blasts, despite the Thunderfire having four of them. They're also 35 points cheaper than a Thunderfire and better armor (kinda). They don't come with Stealth though (TF does by virtue of bolstered defenses). No, I did use the incendiary rounds - I'm not that stupid! T4, 4+ trumped my Str4 Ap5 ignores cover large blasts. I would hit 8 or 9, wound half, and 1 or 2 would then fail saves. They were ard boys in 5+ cover terrain, they went to ground and also had a +1 boost to cover from an objective. I was dreadfully unlucky for a lot of the game and wondered if Whirlwinds should usually perform better before buying a second. But your posts have reassured me. Will field a couple and try them again! As my other army is orks, I have a question for you: Did the mob in question have more then 10 orks? In case it did, they become fearless. Fearless troops cannot go to ground. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3489925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquamarine Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Clearly you didn't use the Incendiary rounds, resulting in a disappointing outcome. May as well have said you left chocolate in a hot car all day and were disappointed when it melted! Whirlwinds were great before, and now even more so. Large blasts tend to hit more than small blasts, despite the Thunderfire having four of them. They're also 35 points cheaper than a Thunderfire and better armor (kinda). They don't come with Stealth though (TF does by virtue of bolstered defenses). No, I did use the incendiary rounds - I'm not that stupid! T4, 4+ trumped my Str4 Ap5 ignores cover large blasts. I would hit 8 or 9, wound half, and 1 or 2 would then fail saves. They were ard boys in 5+ cover terrain, they went to ground and also had a +1 boost to cover from an objective. I was dreadfully unlucky for a lot of the game and wondered if Whirlwinds should usually perform better before buying a second. But your posts have reassured me. Will field a couple and try them again! As my other army is orks, I have a question for you: Did the mob in question have more then 10 orks? In case it did, they become fearless. Fearless troops cannot go to ground. Yes there were a lot more than 10, more like 20...hah. I should have spotted that. So, they should have only had a 4+ cover save...better to use the Str5 rounds then as they had 4+ Armour save. That would have made a bit of difference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3490164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 So, a drop of 20 points on Whirlwinds whereas before they were overpriced. Still an indirect fire, ignores cover weapon. So far, so good... However I tested one last night and it did very little. It was firing at a big mob of Ork Boys [with T4, 4+ and 3+ cover (with going to ground)] but killed only 3 all game (he was lucky to get a +1 cover save objective mind you). Maybe I'm missing something, but how did the Orks get a cover save versus a weapon that ignores cover saves? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3490213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 To my understanding the boyz in question where 'Ard boyz. 'Ardboyz have 'Eavy armour , which provides a 4+ armor save. That way, if you used the S5 Ap4 template they get no armor save. They do get a cover save 5+ if in area terrain. If you fire the second option ammo, then S is 4, but Ap is 5...so they get an armor save. There is a thing or two I do have to say on the subject. Whirlwind is one of the best, if not THE best SM tank in a point for point firefight. It should be used to fire upon targets of opportunity. When I say this, by that i mean ...opportunities created by YOU. Orks, on the surface , seem like a mindless mass of bodies that simply advances across the table in a make or brake situation . That is mostly true - but every good Ork player knows that every list is made of boyz and toys. So a mob of 30 shoota boys is boyz. A unit of 10 loota boyz is toys. Boyz are made to hold and take objectives , die in the process and take as many enemies with them. On the other hand , Toys are made to be played with , and kill the enemy. There are a handful of units that make a poor target for Wrilwind: Warboss in Mega armor Mega armored nobz Bikerz and Nob bikerz Battle wagons Deff koptas Killa kanz and Dreads These either have too high T, or a save too good ,or are too few (like Deffkopta) to be worth shooting at. Everything else he can field needs to fear the whirlwind. Rules to remember at all times: - the direction of the shot counts as coming from the middle of the template- this negates any cover between the WW and its target (like things partially obsuring LOS) , night fight and cover saves from things like ADL - rounds that ignore cover also ignore Go to ground - pre measuring is your friend Targets of Opportunity Grotz behind ADL manning the Icarus? - BAM! lootas on a hill ? - BAM! A trukk exploded and boys jumped out? - BAM! BW with Burna Boyz exploded midfield..oh how sad... BAMM!! A bunch of boyz got tank shocked and moved to the side, all nicely bunched up? - BAMM!!! 48" of Killing Ground Nothing is safe from it, and the enemy must count on loosing some models to WW fire. The tank is so cheap for what it does. A horde of infantry must choose between advancing from cover to cover - which is a good idea (but as we've seen this can be avoided) or suffering to WW fire even more. Priced at little more then a combat squad - Whirlwind is so good and cheap that every SM list should start like this: HQ,2 troops...whirlwind Cheers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3490439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquamarine Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 So, a drop of 20 points on Whirlwinds whereas before they were overpriced. Still an indirect fire, ignores cover weapon. So far, so good... However I tested one last night and it did very little. It was firing at a big mob of Ork Boys [with T4, 4+ and 3+ cover (with going to ground)] but killed only 3 all game (he was lucky to get a +1 cover save objective mind you). Maybe I'm missing something, but how did the Orks get a cover save versus a weapon that ignores cover saves? As Garath said, basically... Ard boyz with a 4+ armour save, in area terrain with a scatterfield objective for a total of 4+ cover save. Whichever missiles you use they were getting a 4+ save of some kind...so may as well use the missiles that are Str 5 as the best bet. I was using the Str 4 Ap5 ignores cover missiles but only because he was illegally going to ground with fearless troops and thus claiming a total 3+ cover save, which I wanted to negate. Last time I let an opponent pull that one on me! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3490559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 So, a drop of 20 points on Whirlwinds whereas before they were overpriced. Still an indirect fire, ignores cover weapon. So far, so good... However I tested one last night and it did very little. It was firing at a big mob of Ork Boys [with T4, 4+ and 3+ cover (with going to ground)] but killed only 3 all game (he was lucky to get a +1 cover save objective mind you). Maybe I'm missing something, but how did the Orks get a cover save versus a weapon that ignores cover saves? As Garath said, basically... Ard boyz with a 4+ armour save, in area terrain with a scatterfield objective for a total of 4+ cover save. Whichever missiles you use they were getting a 4+ save of some kind...so may as well use the missiles that are Str 5 as the best bet. I was using the Str 4 Ap5 ignores cover missiles but only because he was illegally going to ground with fearless troops and thus claiming a total 3+ cover save, which I wanted to negate. Last time I let an opponent pull that one on me! I don't know, if he really wants to pin his own troops that much I'm all for it, makes it really easy to line up some fantastic flame attacks and assaults. I mean normally I look forward to pinning orks but can't because they are fearless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3490689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The general idea is to kill as many elite / killy models before the green tide reaches your lines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3491363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Agreed, but don't forget to always keep an eye on objectives and not to get bogged down in the cleansing :) The WW helps greatly with this as it will thin the horde for you, allowing you to concentrate on the big nasties and mop up the boyz as needed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3491442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excubitor Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I actually find that a thunderfire and 2 whirlwinds can really do well together against hordes. If you pick the right target, a turn of subterranean rounds can cause a bottleneck of large mobs, letting the whirlwinds really do a ton of damage. I know people will say to just fire the thunderfire normally, but I've always loved the subterranean rounds, the extra turn or so of shooting and the bottlenecks it can cause if used right are great tools. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3491504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Actually had a chance to try out a whirlwind in a cities of death game. Man does it really come into it's own in there, although at one point I opted to not even fire on a turn because I had so many units in amongst his line I felt like I'd just hit myself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3491724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquamarine Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 Have now given 2 Whirlwinds a try in the last couple of games I've played. For their points they are having more of an effect and killing more than one equally-priced Predator; as they can always get shots in even when behind cover, can ignore cover and don't lose anything through moving 6". Found best results when they retain LOS to target though.The weight of fire from 2 meant that even GKs were failing saves, with the number they were having to take, and with their small sized units that hurt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3492376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/s/Relic_Scorpius.pdf That thing is kind of underpriced. I would feel bad to be dropping 2-4 str8 templates a turn on armour that heavy for that amount of points. A regular whirlwind is bad enough. Or perhaps good enough :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3494020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon999 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Just ran a tournament last weekend where I fielded 2 of them. In all 3 games they were about the last thing my foes gunned for, so they kept shooting pretty much all day long. Across all 3 games they accounted for : - a crap ton of tau missile drones (stripped off all of them so my devs could shoot the broadsides behind them) and removed a ton of threat from the drones themselves and plugged a few wounds on the broadsides as well, a half dozen kroot and I think a couple of steath suits too. - killed a TON of gants. Like almost a couple of dozen of them over the next 2 games (which were both against nids). Killed about 8 or so gargoyles, stripped wounds off some hive guard too. The best part is that for 65pts, once the other guy realized what they were doing to him and started gunning for them they went down quick but WHO CARES!!! That was a 65pt tank! Leaves the rest of my army free to blow the snot out of them as they work on the whirlies! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3523023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 The only thing wrong with the whirlwind now that they fixed the price is the inability to take squads. Being 1-3 would go a long way towards making them a staple unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3523216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I'd like to see them given a different niche than TFC. Maybe drop the ignore cover rounds for a reroll to wound bonus on the primary ammo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280603-new-codex-whirlwinds/page/2/#findComment-3523230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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