Terminators - Heroes of the Imperium...?

[Disruptor_fe404]

After some thought, I'm going to try using the Termies for what they (almost) actually are - Dark Angels Deathwing. I'll buy Belial and find 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers and ally them into my marine army. So that's 11 Terminator bodies coming in automatically on a turn of your choosing (1 or 2), they don't scatter and they get 22 Twin-linked Stormbolter shots and 4 Twin-linked Krak Missiles. And they have split-fire. If your opponent ignores them he then has 10 Power Fists in his backyard and a Fleshbaned, Master-crafted AP3 sword.

 

They're only Troops if in the Primary Detachment. And the chaps above are right about assault cannons being the better choice if Deep Striking (without scatter at that!).

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

since we are talking about terminators... is the assault terminators the only units still decent to go toe-to-toe with CC armies?

[Captain Idaho]

No. In fact they never were the only unit able to do. It was an Internet illusion.

[Molokai]

Captain loves his honour guard. Respect :)

[Jonah]

Oh snap. That's a shame. Glad you guys corrected me before I started cheating.

 

Very interesting point about the Cannon > Missiles. But does this take the storm bolters of the Cyclone Termies into account? According to math-hammer they strip another 0.6 hull points off, making the total average hull-points destroyed higher than the assault cannons:

• 2x Assault cannons: 3.5 HP removed
• 2x Cyclone missiles: 2.9 HP removed
• 2x Storm bolters: 0.6 HP removed

This means on average a Cyclone & Bolter Termie will strip almost exactly the same amount of hull points as an Assault Cannon Termie. I guess at 5 points cheaper that does make them better against AV 10.

 

However, as soon as you do AV 11+ or T7+, the Cyclones become better.

 

I think I would still be tempted to take this unit, even without them being troops. I've got nothing else to do with the models anyway!

[Ishagu]

You forget rending and how useful it can be.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Yup, Rending means the Assault cannon edges out the Cyclone at AV13+ and is on par with the Cyclone at AV11 & AV12.

 

Well, unless my math is completely wrong.

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

No. In fact they never were the only unit able to do. It was an Internet illusion.

 

Darn it. I actually bought a set because i could not handle MC well with sternguards.

 

 

@Jonah

I would go for the assault cannon if deepstriking with the terminators.

[Captain Idaho]

Oh Assault Terminators are still the premium anti MC assault unit for us, it's just they're not the be all and end all of assault units. Against Orks or Guard blobs or anything that gets large numbers like Tyranids they become one of the worst in fact. Striking last against 40+ dice is pretty terminal!

[infornography]

Honor guard are better against anything that has only one wound, T4 or less, and no AP2+ 

 

Hammernators are better against anything beefier that ignores armor 2 or is particularly tough or multiwound models with T4 or less.

 

Both are excellent melee units.  I really wish I could fit both into my standard list.

[minigun762]

I think adding back in some twin claw Terminators has value, as they give you a better option for thinning the herd.

Either that or take a blender HQ choice.

[Jolemai]

Personally, one of the ways I am looking at running them is with Tau Allies as follows:

 

-Iron Hands Chapter Master with SMB, AA, TH, Shield Eternal, and Primarchs Wrath (replaces Krak Grenades)

-10 IH Tactical Terminators with 2 CML

-Allied Tau Commander with all the toys (Iridium Armor, Onager Guantlet, Vectored Retro Thrusters, PENchip, MSS, C2 Node, Flamer, Shield Generator)

Emphasis mine. How exactly are you doing this?

[Lysere]

 

Personally, one of the ways I am looking at running them is with Tau Allies as follows:

 

-Iron Hands Chapter Master with SMB, AA, TH, Shield Eternal, and Primarchs Wrath (replaces Krak Grenades)

-10 IH Tactical Terminators with 2 CML

-Allied Tau Commander with all the toys (Iridium Armor, Onager Guantlet, Vectored Retro Thrusters, PENchip, MSS, C2 Node, Flamer, Shield Generator)

Emphasis mine. How exactly are you doing this?

 

By Communing with the dark gods. It's not possible by any stretch of the rules but that argument was around with the previous codex too.

[Ming]

I find terminators to fail when they can be overwhelmed with shooting...I guess they really do work best in a space hulk...

 

That said, they can be greatly improved:

 

1.  Blood angel medics can get them FNP (as a bubble effect), which should help a bunch, and a BA psycher can give them a moving cover save.

 

2.  Ultramarine tactical termies can be coupled with Tigurius and the right power to get them a 4++ save and other buffs that protect them. 

 

3.  The larger the squad the better regardless of choices.

 

4.  Look  for other buffs that increase their T, or otherwise protect them.  Another useful version when running them vs lower T hordes is a cheap psycher with fire shield, which gives them a 4+ cover save (great for AP2/1 weapons) while moving forward, and a 2D6 S4 fire shield (per charging unit) vs any unit that charges them. 

 

Just never run them w/o support.

[MagicMan]

I think adding back in some twin claw Terminators has value, as they give you a better option for thinning the herd.

Either that or take a blender HQ choice.

 

 

Twin LC's are definitely back in fashion. Just keep the SS guys at the front/near the units with AP2 weapons to tank hits.

 

With the shooting allocation to nearest first, you can keep LC's pretty safe. Ish.

[WarriorFish]

Good points Ming, but to be fair to Terminators all units need support. Nothing works in a vacuum and Marines benefit perhaps more than most from a combined arms approach.

As for load outs I'm just going to keep using my 3:2 TH/SS to LC ratio for Terminators. They called me crazy...

[MagicMan]

Well last edition when you had to allocate wounds to everyone... They did die quick sometimes. But now... :)

[WarriorFish]

I think a couple of LC Terminators have always been handy to have, chopping some enemies up at initiative can make a big difference and when the TH/SS spam came helped separate me from the masses

I've come with a plan for Terminators: "play the meta". I'm going to carry on playing games as normal, without 2+ saves (aside from on my MotF and Techmarines) then when everyone has drifted away from the bigger guns I'll deploy a Terminator heavy list and hope to weather the spam fire It's worth a go, though my Tactical Terminators are still in the repainting list... rectifying that can be while I play the non-2+ games :P

[Ishagu]

I ran a 4x plasma and apothecary command squad alongside Tigarius in a Razorback last game I played. Prescience + Forewarning for re rols and 4+ invul.

They did a lot more damage than my termies ever have...

 

And they cost a lot less too (if you factor in transport)

[Jonah]

I ran a 4x plasma and apothecary command squad alongside Tigarius in a Razorback last game I played. Prescience + Forewarning for re rols and 4+ invul.

They did a lot more damage than my termies ever have...

 

And they cost a lot less too (if you factor in transport)

 

Was the apothecary worth it? I have 2 FW models that I bought when FnP was 4+, I'm looking for an excuse to use them again.

[Ishagu]

 

 

 

I ran a 4x plasma and apothecary command squad alongside Tigarius in a Razorback last game I played. Prescience + Forewarning for re rols and 4+ invul.

They did a lot more damage than my termies ever have...

 

And they cost a lot less too (if you factor in transport)

Was the apothecary worth it? I have 2 FW models that I bought when FnP was 4+, I'm looking for an excuse to use them again.

I have used him last 3 games I played. In one I failed all the fnp saves and he was worthless, but in the other two he kept 3 of the 5 alive after a baleflamer hit the command squad. He also kept someone alive after a failed gets hot save.

In the most recent game, stacking with the 4++ the squad became very survivable.

 

Basically,, 5+ fnp for the whole unit costs the same as 1 plasma gun... I think it's worth it.

[L30n1d4s]

Another use for Terminators is as a resilient escort for weaker "support" HQs, such as Librarians. While not super cheap, they are able to absorb lots of firepower that normally would be a very big threat to expensive HQs.

 

For example, Leman Russ Pie Plates, massed Tau Missile Pod fire, Eldar Bladestorm Shurikans, Heldrake Baleflamers, etc. all can bring down HQs and their bodyguards relatively easily. A small Terminator Bodyguard, with 2+/5++, properly used, can absorb a lot of that damage and keep you HQs alive to keep buffing your army with their special rules, psykic powers, etc.

[Ming]

In the last couple of BatReps on my blog you can see how I'm using tactical terminators as Tiggy's bodyguard.  The conuncrum for me to sweat out is (since I try to get Forewarning and Foreboding on the unit) is whether the tactical terminators are better in the long run than say sternguard plus miscellaneous stuff to balance the points.  Right now I'm really torn...10 terminators = 20 stormbolter shots and 4 CML shots downrange (which can be awesome, played vs horde orks wednesday and the unit shined), or 10 sternguard with combi-meltas or combiplasma and 2 lanspeeder typhoons with 4 TMLs and 2 HBs.  The terminators remain more resilient, and are relentless, but having to wait till I1 in close combat remains frightening even for 2+/5++ single wound models...in my local meta, the terminators are more likely to be charged by a FMC than anything else...

[Stickeh]

In my last game I used a 5 man unit of tac terms as a bodyguard for Tiggy with a TDA Libby with SS attached. For 100 points he's an extra character to tank challenges, provides a 3++ to tank low ap shots and gives an extra psychic power as well. Anyone wanting to use tac terms I highly reccomend this setup, as over the course of the game it saved probably 3 terminators, earning his points back through that alone. The 5++ just doesn't cut it, and it saves Tiggy having to use one of his charges to get 4++