HH Emperor.

[FunkyMonkey]

Honestly, the Emperor should have foreseen something like this was going to happen.  All of the primarchs are aspects of the Emperor, and no one, not even Magnus has the level of knowledge that the Emperor has.  How was he supposed to assume that the Chaos Gods would have just shut up and let him impose Order on the galaxy, thus reflecting it into the Immaeterium, through Immaeterial processes known probably only to him, Magnus, Malcador, and a host of other super-powerful psykers.  When the Chaos Gods up and stole the primarchs from his lab, he should have known that the Chaos gods are going to be out to get him/his primarchs.  In such a situation, preaching the Imperial Truth is probably not the most helpful way to allow humanity to stand up against the perils of the Warp.

[Wade Garrett]

 

If the Emperor just sucks it up and gets beat on until he clues in I'll be shockingly disappointed, but I have a feeling ADB wont allow that kind of thing to happen. :]

 

Yes, but who says ADB gets to write the BIG! conclusion? Who says it won't be Ben "Battle for the Abyss" Counter, Gav "Deliverance Lost" Thorpe, or Graham "False Gods" McNeil?

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Abnett better write the finale, or I'm gonna orbital strike the BL.

[Kol Saresk]

 

Abnett better write the finale, or I'm gonna orbital strike the BL.

I'd personally be comfortable with either Abnett, A D-B, Andy Chambers or Rob sanders as I have read some of their works and have so far personally enjoyed everything I've read. That and Andy Chambers is one of the oldest names in Games Workshop, since '89-ish IIRC. Him putting his stamp in the BL HH series would be huge.

[Conn Eremon]

Personally, I'd like to see a concluding trilogy, with Abnett or A D-B capping it off, but both involved regardless. Alongside an Anthology that goes into finer detail some of the extraneous Siege events.

[Scribe]

 

 

If the Emperor just sucks it up and gets beat on until he clues in I'll be shockingly disappointed, but I have a feeling ADB wont allow that kind of thing to happen. :]

 

Yes, but who says ADB gets to write the BIG! conclusion? Who says it won't be Ben "Battle for the Abyss" Counter, Gav "Deliverance Lost" Thorpe, or Graham "False Gods" McNeil?

 

Even if he doesnt write it. His approach/philosophy on the series seems to at least have some influence.

 

When you list those other books though....yeah.

 

Abnett could do it, but ADB would do it better, imo.

[depthcharge12]

What if ADB and Dan Abnett coalesce into a greater being like Super Saiyen 4 Gogeta and become Abnett Dembski-Bowden to write the last book?!?!?!

 

 

Its totally plausible and fething amazing.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Nobody in the BL stable, and I mean nobody does destruction on a colossal scale like Abnett.

 

"So, Dan, we have this idea where the XVII Legion spends the whole book destroying the glittering jewel of the XIII Legion's realm. You think you can do that?"

 

"No worries."

[Kol Saresk]

But then BL would have to close its doors because the future could only go downhill.......

[depthcharge12]

But then BL would have to close its doors because the future could only go downhill.......

 

yeah it would turn into Star Wars: The Phantom Menace

 

*turns three times and spits on the floor*

[Wade Garrett]

Personally, I'd like to see a concluding trilogy, with Abnett or A D-B capping it off, but both involved regardless. Alongside an Anthology that goes into finer detail some of the extraneous Siege events.

 

Just lobbing this out into the ether, BUT:

 

Since the Heresy started with a three book series about the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus, perhaps it should end with three featuring the Imperial Fists? With Dorn, Sigismund, and whatshisface from "Crimson Fist" as the viewpoint characters? The VII have been severely under represented in the Heresy so far, and the Siege is pretty much their big moment.

 

And on a purely personal note, I want to see Dorn face the Night Haunter. See the Rock of the Imperium tremble with the fear the Lord of the Night brings...and then see him overcome that fear and righteously smash Curze in the face because ROGAL DORN SMASH HERESY! NO RETREAT! NO MERCY! YEAAAAAH!

[spu00sed]

I would like several different versions of the final conflict.

 

One from the chaos point of view

 

One form the imperial point of view

 

Maybe one from a somewhat neutral point of view

 

They all tell the same story, but with their own spin and take on things.

 

Thus we still get to argue about what really happened

[Scribe]

I dont see this being one book, I think it will have to be a trilogy + anthology at least.

 

Dan kicks it off, we have massive amounts of destruction, the world is coming to an end.

Anthology rolls in, firing off a scattering of stories from the usual suspects.

Blood Angels Book

White Scars Book

Imperial Fists Book (like what we have Wade here talking about?)

 

Dark Angels/Space Wolves Book?

Ultramarines? Is Unremembered Empire their last contribution here?

 

 

A set of Novella's like the Primarchs touches on some of the keystone moments. The falling of the gate, etc. The World Eaters first into the breach. The palace is burning...

 

Ending with - ADB writes the final moments of the palace, the battle's on board the ship after teleportation, the Fall of Sangy, the eventual Emp vs Horus, the insert of Ollanius Pius, his destruction, the Emperor goes OVER 9000, and Dorn walks in to pick up the literal pieces.

 

Roll Credits.

 

Kick off The Scouring.

 

EDIT: Oh and Dan needs to clean up all this perpetual stuff at some point, I still dont really get where we are going with it.

 

I mean really we are looking at like 10 novels just to wrap this all up.

[Xenith]

Not read through everything, but regarding the Big E vs Chaos Horus debate:

Remember that the Emperor was holding back in the fight. He still believed that Horus still had a sliver of humanity, of decency within him. It was only when Horus murdered his guards, mortals so callously that the Emperor saw his mistake, in believing that Horus could turn back, and psychically tore him to pieces.

 

In A  Thousand Sons Magnus also states that the Big E could kill him from across the galaxy if he wanted.

 

Still not sure how he could have lost to that Ork.

 

Maybe it was all staged as a final 'proving' for Horus, that he could have the confidence to take over the reigns of the crusade.

[Wade Garrett]

Remember that the Emperor was holding back in the fight. He still believed that Horus still had a sliver of humanity, of decency within him.....

 

And thus we prove conclusively what the Chaos Gods have been saying for the entire Heresy:

 

The Emperor is anathema to the survival of human life, on account of him being DUMBER THAN A SACK FULL OF HAMMERS.

[Wade Garrett]

And the whole "holding back because twu wuv" theory makes even less sense in light of Isstvan V. You know, when seven legions and six Primarchs were dispatched to end Horus's rebellion by purging the traitors with bullet and blade?

 

And there didn't seem to be "Take the Traitor Primarchs alive" exception given either. Ferrous Manus was fairly explicit in his "Kill'em all, there are no gods so to heck with sorting them out" when he proposed the battle plan in Fulgrim, as was Corax in his appearance in The First Heretic.

 

For that matter, the "Kill Primarchs from halfway across the galaxy with mind bullets" idea doesn't gel well with the Drop Site Massacre either. Even if Horus is special, surely the Emperor could have brought himself to go ahead and off, say, Angron? It would have demoralized the other Traitor Primarchs and given his troops an easier time once they committed to the fight. And it's not like Emps ever showed any great amount of...any affection at all to the Twelfth Primarch.

 

Really, the more all powerful one tries to paint the Emperor as, the less and less intelligent he looks.

 

I propose an alternate theory:

That Horus, pretty much universally acclaimed as Most Awesome Primarch, when empowered by all Four Chaos Gods to a degree no one has ever been before or since, could -gasp! shock! HERESY!-actually fight in the same weight class as the Emperor. And the duel was more a clash of equals to determine the fate of the universe, and less one deluded cretin being used as a punching bag by a cretin whose delusions were of a different sort, until it finally penetrated cretin #1's thick skull that cretin #2 was, you know, a bad guy.

[Scribe]

I cannot accept the Emperor holding back, from a narrative it does not convey anything but ':cuss...I really was dumb'.

 

In light of.

 

1. Deny presence of the Chaos gods.

2. Force ignorance of the threat they pose.

3. Failure to bring the mightiest beings in the universe in on the issue.

4. Failure to heed direct warnings.

5. Compound failure by damning those who would have aided you.

 

Thats where we are now. The Emperor needs help, he NEEDS to be better portrayed at this point and 'he was holding back' is a very unfortunate wrench in the plans of making him look in any way competent. 

 

EDIT: I know the canon on this, but this is a case where a slight re-imagining is needed, if not a full on retcon.

[FunkyMonkey]

I feel like the writers of Warhammer 40K are trying too much to make the Emperor look both like Jesus and Zeus.  Jesus is too merciful to be the ruler of a human empire, and Zeus is too dickish to be the benevolent God-Emperor that he is portrayed in 40K, which they are trying to reflect as having some basis in 30K as conveyed through the Lectitio Divinatus.

[Conn Eremon]

I don't think that it is because the writers want him to be both, just that they want him to be perceived as either.

[lilMAC25]

I dont see this being one book, I think it will have to be a trilogy + anthology at least.

 

Dan kicks it off, we have massive amounts of destruction, the world is coming to an end.

Anthology rolls in, firing off a scattering of stories from the usual suspects.

Blood Angels Book

White Scars Book

Imperial Fists Book (like what we have Wade here talking about?)

 

Dark Angels/Space Wolves Book?

Ultramarines? Is Unremembered Empire their last contribution here?

 

 

A set of Novella's like the Primarchs touches on some of the keystone moments. The falling of the gate, etc. The World Eaters first into the breach. The palace is burning...

 

Ending with - ADB writes the final moments of the palace, the battle's on board the ship after teleportation, the Fall of Sangy, the eventual Emp vs Horus, the insert of Ollanius Pius, his destruction, the Emperor goes OVER 9000, and Dorn walks in to pick up the literal pieces.

 

Roll Credits.

 

Kick off The Scouring.

 

EDIT: Oh and Dan needs to clean up all this perpetual stuff at some point, I still dont really get where we are going with it.

 

I mean really we are looking at like 10 novels just to wrap this all up.

 

 

 

I think that when Oli Pi dies, he gives his strength to the Emperor to defeat Horus.

 

JMO

[DuskRaider]

Also just a quick side note, the Emperor didn't physically destroy Horus either, only his soul (utterly). His physical body was recovered and brought into the Eye of Terror, which sparked a huge war between the Emperor's Children and Sons of Horus, after Fabius made clones of the Warmaster.

[Cerbero666]

I feel like the writers of Warhammer 40K are trying too much to make the Emperor look both like Jesus and Zeus. Jesus is too merciful to be the ruler of a human empire, and Zeus is too dickish to be the benevolent God-Emperor that he is portrayed in 40K, which they are trying to reflect as having some basis in 30K as conveyed through the Lectitio Divinatus.

That's the funny thing, he wants to be both of them. He wants to be a merciful ruler and bring peace, but he needs war, so he must be a tyrant, but being a tyrant is bad, but not being a tyrant is stupid given the situation, but kill people and burn planets is an abomination, but if not all the humankind will die, but... and goes on and on forever.

 

The Emperor is too complex to be written properly, even more with the few little glimpses he got in the books, and of course the different authors and POVs. He needs a novel just to explain what happens in his mind. The mind of a half human half god all awesome guy. And he needs an author who could put all the different shards of his personality together without him being a joke. He's been around close to 40.000 years at the time of the heresy, how many doubts, different approaches to his goal, plans, and sentiments have passed through his head over that time? He has been king, architect, messiah, warrior, father, husband, brother, falafel seller, and who knows what else. So, I don't find that the fact of him having some doubts or changes of mind over the time as a proof of his stupidity. He doubt to kill Horus for a second, so what? He rip his soul from his body the moment after. He maybe tried a different approach to the fight for the first minutes, and then (with a little help of Oll probably) strike the last blow.

 

I read somewhere, I can't remember if it was a fanfict or official or what, but it was a short of the final moments of Horus and the Emperor. And the duel was very balanced until the Emperor found a breach in Horus mental defense and his son, the good Horus reappared, the right time to allow the Emperor to finish him.

 

So we just need a good writer to put it all together, attending the complexity of the character. I like the Wade's idea of a final Trilogy with the Fists POV, but too much centered in the Fists given the other legions and forces who fought in the Siege is unlikely. I want A-D-B in the last trilogy and Abnett for the last part of it, concluding with: "I was there the day Horus slew the Emperor".

[Wade Garrett]

I swear I remember ADB posting something about BL having a standing policy of NEVER having Big E as a viewpoint character.

 

And frankly, the one time in a Heresy story we see him in the spotlight (The Last Church) he...um...I get that he was appearing as a normal dude and not just overwhelming the priest with his awesomeness, but you'd expect the Emperor to be more articulate. In that story he sounded like someone who read a Richard Dawkins book one time and only remembered about half of what was in it. Very underwhelming.

[Scribe]

Err isnt ADB writing The Master of Mankind, from the Emperors perspective? Or am I missing something.

[Conn Eremon]

Is Master of Mankind from his perspective or about him? Because those are two very different things.