spu00sed Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I've been thinking about the primarchs and the emperor (blessed be him on terra). I also have been thinking about the lies told to Horus by a daemon, telling him that the emperor used stolen warp energy, or word to that effect. Now we know that daemons lie, especially when they tell the truth. So what is stolen warp energy? The daemon tells that the primarchs were infused with part of the chaos gods power in a bargain. However we know at the emperor doesn't want the chaos gods to exist and was doing everything in his power to suppress their powers. However infusing their power into giant warriors wouldn't help suppress them. New we get onto the lie and the truth. The chaos gods are in the warp and they are the warp. Which means anything taken from it is taken form them. Which from their point of view means they feel anyone who uses the warp owes them. Thus the daemon wasn't lying. The Emperor used warp energy, as such he owes the big four. Just like opening a gaming DVD automatically means you agree with the txt file on the said DVD. Using the warp automatically means you owe the chaos gods. This brings me onto the final confrontation between Horus and the Emperor and how the Emperor wasn't willing to kill his son that had just killed one of his other sons and was in the process of bombing the homeworld into a nuclear wasteland. Miso why did he hold back? My belief is that the warp power infused into the primarchs did come form the warp, but it was the part of the warp that was the emperors soul. He put a bit of himself into each of his sons. A fraction of the thousands of shaman souls that make up part of him was put into each of his sons. This is why he couldn't foresee the heresy, this is why he couldn't fight Horus and this is why he couldn't foretell what was going to happen How could you kill part if yourself, knowing that your enemy will gain the power of the part you killed? How could you foresee part of yourself trying to kill the rest of yourself? From the chaos gods point of view, with each primarch death/conversion they are getting back part of the warp that they feel the emperor owes them. So in conclusion, the emperor infused his essence into each primarch, part of his own soul. As such he was reluctant to kill his sons, knowing that he would be killing part of himself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280686-why-the-emperor-couldnt-kill-horus-a-theory/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 But the E did kill Horus, erased him from all existence even. I think the primarchs were in fact "gestalt" beings created from the binding of multiple souls to one being. I get that idea from one line from TFH about "pacts made in blood and souls". And the death scene of Ferrus Manus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280686-why-the-emperor-couldnt-kill-horus-a-theory/#findComment-3470631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted September 21, 2013 Author Share Posted September 21, 2013 He did in e end but he held back, that is what I meant. If the emepror wanted to he could have destroyed horus the moment he walked not the bridge and saw him. Instead he let horus beat him up, rip out his arm and steal his lunch money. Why did he allow this? My reason is he didnt want to kill part of myself and was hoping the part of him in Horus would see the same way and stop. Only when he realised that Horus was totally corrupted by chaos did he destroy his son and part of his own soul. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280686-why-the-emperor-couldnt-kill-horus-a-theory/#findComment-3470646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 He did in e end but he held back, that is what I meant. If the emepror wanted to he could have destroyed horus the moment he walked not the bridge and saw him. Because whenever William King veers from the subject of chubby Space Vikings, he stops making sense. Ye gods, that account of the Siege makes the Emperor look like the biggest moron ever. "Ho hum, Horus has murdered billions of my subjects and soldiers, tortured innocents to death, and he's currently covered him in the blood of my beloved son Sanguinus. I could totally blast him from existence by waving my pinkie if I felt like it, because I'm all powerful like that, but I think it would be better if I let him shove a lightning claw into my torso over and over until I go into a coma for ten thousand years." And suddenly, Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeencht, and Slaanesh look like MUCH better candidates to control the destiny of mankind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280686-why-the-emperor-couldnt-kill-horus-a-theory/#findComment-3470658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unintentional Batman Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I personally hold true the theory that the amount of psychic power Emps had to release to vapourize Horus' soul was what brought Emperor down to such a bad shape that that he had to be thrown into the life support - burned out his physical body and would have killed him too had there not been Dorn to set him up on the Throne. It was the very last move he could pull, which is why he postponed it as long as he could (trying to take on Horus via conventional means). It also explains why the Ork almost strangled Emps to death without getting his soul eradicated in the same way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280686-why-the-emperor-couldnt-kill-horus-a-theory/#findComment-3470673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Well along with my own theory the E was himself a gestalt being. My question is would the E, even in desperation destroy a part of himself? Not to mention, being what he was, would the E butcher his own soul to create his sons? When he could just bind other, possibly powerful souls(psykers?), to accomplish the task? Maybe we will get some insight into the E mind in the novels, but I doubt it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280686-why-the-emperor-couldnt-kill-horus-a-theory/#findComment-3470674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 How I see this thread: http://i.imgur.com/I7twUGq.gif Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280686-why-the-emperor-couldnt-kill-horus-a-theory/#findComment-3470678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Carnelian Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 How about the love a father feels for his son? Isn't that enough of a reason to hesitate? Especially given that the primarchs more and more resemble their real-life mythological origins these days, where fathers and sons feature heavily. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280686-why-the-emperor-couldnt-kill-horus-a-theory/#findComment-3470735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 How about the love a father feels for his son? Isn't that enough of a reason to hesitate? Especially given that the primarchs more and more resemble their real-life mythological origins these days, where fathers and sons feature heavily. Nope. The Emperor doesn't "love" his sons. That is obvious at this point. I don't see Horus being the exception. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280686-why-the-emperor-couldnt-kill-horus-a-theory/#findComment-3470780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus de Mortalis Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Apparently the Emperor already had two of his sons killed (the 2 lost legions) and ordered the destruction of the Thousand Sons and Magnus brought back to Terra in chains. So I really don't think 'love' was what kept the Emperor from killing Horus. But anyway, the 40k universe is huge and entirely fictional. There are lots of things in it that already don't make sense from a logical point of view. This is just one of them. There are lots of unanswered questions in the 40k fluff. We don't really know the nature of the Emperor. Characters within the 40k universe don't even know either. Some ascribe the Emperor as a god from the warp in mortal form, stronger than any single one of the Chaos gods. Others describe him 'merely' as a powerful psyker, albeit one that burns brighter in the warp than a thousand suns. Of course this doesn't really help anything since we don't really know the true nature of a god or a psyker in 40k. The primarchs themselves could be either of these as well, but simply far less powerful than the emperor. One thing that is alluded to is that the primarchs are all based upon a different facet of the Emperor, although that is simple some space marines thinking out loud. When the Emperor made the primarchs, the laboratory was housed inside the most powerful gellar-field ever created. So it seems that when the Emperor made the primarchs outside of the influence of the warp. I don't believe that the big four Chaos gods own everything warp-related. The warp was around before they existed, and there are and have been other beings and deities in the warp. The warp itself is given power by the souls of living creatures, is it not? The warp doesn't really belong to anybody. It is a common good, like our planet's atmosphere. Some people pollute it, some people keep it clean, some use a lot, some use a little, but nobody owns it. As to why the Emperor held back and couldn't kill Horus, I don't know, I really don't know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280686-why-the-emperor-couldnt-kill-horus-a-theory/#findComment-3470817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 How about the love a father feels for his son? Isn't that enough of a reason to hesitate? Especially given that the primarchs more and more resemble their real-life mythological origins these days, where fathers and sons feature heavily. Nope. The Emperor doesn't "love" his sons. That is obvious at this point. I don't see Horus being the exception. You make your avatar picture proud :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280686-why-the-emperor-couldnt-kill-horus-a-theory/#findComment-3470839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarSpirit Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Too much burritos. Imagine someone like the big E must eat a lot to maintain his psychic might. You just finished your meal and suddenly someone tells you that Horus dropped his shield and you didn't had time to diggest, you're screwed. Seriously i think he tried to convince horus of the worng of his actions. If he could manage that thatcwould have been a grest blow to the four and thier plans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280686-why-the-emperor-couldnt-kill-horus-a-theory/#findComment-3470935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Why? Because it was a battle for the soul of humanity, and only through that battle did he get the sliver of a chance to fire that 'mind bullet'. If it comes down to 'I just cant quit you Horus' and he gets smacked around for a few chapters, the Interwebs will implode, I promise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280686-why-the-emperor-couldnt-kill-horus-a-theory/#findComment-3470973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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