Montuhotep Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Straightforward question from someone who hasn't got the Codex yet but enjoys thinking up conversion options: Which one, if either, do people either think they'll field more often themselves or have seen fielded? Just trying to get a feel for opinions on them since I'm torn between multi-guns or a single "heat-seeker" in terms of utility. I'm not going to buy the kit (or at least I strongly doubt it) but I did have the thought of adapting the servitor-turret from a Stormraven and mounting it on the back of a rhino.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Hunter against vehicle flyers. Stalker against flying monstrous creatures. Depends on which one you face more often... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3470969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Hunters will help against heavy skimmers too. Necrons and Tau especially. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3471188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I agree with Idaho - the Hunter is easily the better choice for most engagements. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3471198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I think that a lot of people are knee-jerk defaulting to the Stalker because "Hey, look! High rate of fire! That's how to kill a vehicle in 6th Edition!" In reality, the Hunter gives a better one-shot-kill ability, and Savant Lock means that you rarely really "miss" any shots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3471207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I agree as well that the Hunter is best against most targets. It's armourbane ability and low AP means it'll reliably one shot kill most fliers and skimmers. The Stalker wins though on diversity (can opt to shoot two ground targets at BS2 as opposed to one at BS1), and is arguably better against FMCs for the fact that all you need to do is hit them to effectively take them out of the game (followed by a ton of krak missiles). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3471308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 The Stalker can only Snap Fire against at ground targets whetherwwe use the split fire ability or not - it takes prominence. Which is just another reason I don't like the thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3471318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Office temp Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 The Stalker can only Snap Fire against at ground targets whetherwwe use the split fire ability or not - it takes prominence. Which is just another reason I don't like the thing. Huh, I didn't even notice that until Darkgaurd brought it up, but the servo tracking rule does say all shots. That doesn't override the skyfire rule? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3471342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Snap shots always override the to hit rolls. It's in the FAQ too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3471372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdemayo Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I have heard (on this forum, but forget where) that the model has enough parts to assemble both turrets and swap them out. So my answer is "both." I intend to try the Hunter and the Stalker, too. I suspect the Hunter will be better against AV 12 flyers (against which Str 7 weapons stuggle) -- it's basically a big, homing meltagun! -- but the Stalker will do better at popping AV11 targets with its greater weight of fire. The math of comparing glances and pen chart results is more than I can do in my head, though. The stalker's split fire ability seems useful only in circumstances where it would be snap-firing anwyay. Mathematically, doubling the RoF in no way compensates for hitting targets with a TL BS 4. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3471385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Ive got quite a bit of use with the Stalker snap firing against ground targets. In two turns yesterday i managed 6 hits. Killed two ravenwing biker with the shots. Firing at ground targets it basically is like a non-upgraded predator. It should get 1-2 hits per turn, and from what i saw you can't underestimate how well i can do with some lucky dice. The hunter is far better against heavy flyers, but the stalker has far more uses in an all-comers list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3471390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Snap shots always override the to hit rolls. It's in the FAQ too. I'm pretty Codex overrides Rulebook and Rulebook FAQ. Anyway, the Hunter is better regardless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3471408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 No mate the FAQ addresses it directly: Q: Can the BS1 of a Snap Shot ever be modified by special rules that modify the BS of a model’s Shooting attack (such as Space Marine Signums or Sergeant Telion’s Voice of Experience)? (p13) A: No Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3471439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Office temp Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 So, apparently markerlights are the only thing that can change snap shots at this time Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3471445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 One of each. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3471489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 So, apparently markerlights are the only thing that can change snap shots at this time Dirty Xenos. Bit of inconsistency we have to put up with as usual. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3471679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 No mate the FAQ addresses it directly: Q: Can the BS1 of a Snap Shot ever be modified by special rules that modify the BS of a model’s Shooting attack (such as Space Marine Signums or Sergeant Telion’s Voice of Experience)? (p13) A: No Sorted then, cheers for pointing that out mate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3472201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
infornography Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 I agree as well that the Hunter is best against most targets. It's armourbane ability and low AP means it'll reliably one shot kill most fliers and skimmers. It is hardly a reliable one shot kill. It will one shot kill a flyer one out of every 3 hits. And while you will hit a lot more often thanks to savant lock, it is far from a 100% hit rate. If I remember correctly also, Savant Lock does nothing to skimmers. It only locks on if it is a zooming flyer or a swooping FMC. It really isn't what I would ever call reliable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3473494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Compare it to other guns, and it is a reliable one shot kill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3473497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 I agree as well that the Hunter is best against most targets. It's armourbane ability and low AP means it'll reliably one shot kill most fliers and skimmers. It is hardly a reliable one shot kill. It will one shot kill a flyer one out of every 3 hits. And while you will hit a lot more often thanks to savant lock, it is far from a 100% hit rate. If I remember correctly also, Savant Lock does nothing to skimmers. It only locks on if it is a zooming flyer or a swooping FMC. It really isn't what I would ever call reliable. Not reliable? It's still firing as BS4 at skimmers. Last time I checked, BS4 was considered "fairly reliable." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3473575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Cast prescience on it with Tigarius if you worry about hitting lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3473596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 There's been a bit of talk on doing both the kits, the only shared part of the weaponry is the dish which I'm told the Hunter doesn't need to look fine. Plus there's surely easily sourced alternatives so this is very good news for those of us who like to kit bash and double up I think I'll be running it mostly as a Hunter though. That it's a return of an old school model (or rather addition for 40k) aside it looks better and as is clear from the rules and this topic a good solution to flying vehicles which I will encounter the most. Good chances of taking a flyer out on a hit or doing severe damage and if you miss a savant locked missile should be a pretty good incentive for your opponent to leave the table forgoing an attack next turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3473597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Which one, if either, do people either think they'll field more often themselves or have seen fielded? Just trying to get a feel for opinions on them since I'm torn between multi-guns or a single "heat-seeker" in terms of utility. I'm not going to buy the kit (or at least I strongly doubt it) but I did have the thought of adapting the servitor-turret from a Stormraven and mounting it on the back of a rhino.... I think they're fairly balanced to be honest. If I was really afraid of Heldrakes and Vendetta, the Hunter wins out. If I was more afraid of Necron Bakery and FMCs, Stalker . I plan on running one of each personally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3474499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NemFX Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I like the Stalker more, the six guns on the roof reminds me of the Ontos. The Hunter just looks silly. So for looks, Stalker wins. The Hunter probably has the better gun, but I'm definately of the opinion that the more shots you can pump out, the better the chances of you winning, and the Stalker gets more shots. So again, Stalker wins. I could be wrong, maybe the Hunter is great, but I think I've made my choice. Also I think you can take Chronus to make either tank shoot a little better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3487452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
El_Jairo Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I don't think Chronus is a good upgrade as he costs about 80% of the tank itself. I will be testing both as they do bring a complete different value to the board. But I think that hunters will be the most competitive option with the hell turkey and heavy skimmers as targets. I do like the stalker to handle transport spam but this is out of fashion. I do intend to run Tigurius to be able to twin-link the stalker. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280694-hunter-or-stalker/#findComment-3487881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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