An Ode to the Black Knight

[L30n1d4s]

6th Edition is over a year old and the Dark Angel Codex is coming up on a year old in just a few months, so things have had ample time to "settle out' (although, at the rate GW is releasing codexes, there may be still some significant changes in the meta yet to come... heres looking at you Nids, Orks, and IG... the three most prominent "horde" armies getting new books could change the game a bit, I admit).

 

With that perspective, I feel it is safe to say that Black Knights are one of the top 5 units in the game at the moment. I realize many DA players are feeling burned because of comparisons with the just released C: SM, but whether those sentiments are founded or not, I think the Elite of the Ravenwing are truly one of the best units out there, ranking with Sternguard, Heldrakes, Riptides, and Wave Serpents.

 

Why? Looking at the "iron trinity" of firepower, mobility, and survivability, they excell in each:

 

I -- Firepower -- With TLed Plasma Talons on every bike, a BK Squadron can threaten everything from MCs to MEQ to Light Armor to Flyers (TLed means basically BS2 when shooting at aircraft). About the only units that don't fear Plasma Talons are massed hordes (who can just eat the casualties, no problem) and AV14, which can simply ignore them.

 

Addtionally, Ravenwing GLs make Black Knights one of the best force multiplying units out there, both for themselves and for units around them. Dropping enemy Toughness with Rad grenades is tremendous for improving your close combat abilities, for improving ID from shooting (Plasma Talons cause ID to MEQs if the unit has its T lowered to 3), and for allowing "focus fire" to work better (i.e. drop a MC down to T5, meaning that massed bolters, AKA Standard of Devastation, now wound them on 5+s instead of 6+). Stasis Grenades are also amazing for improving close combat abilities of a unit charging the selected target. Incubi are much less deadly when they are WS4 and I4, for example.

 

II -- Mobility -- Being on a SMB already gives them an advantage (12" move, turbo-boost etc.). Throw in Scout and Skilled Rider for extra movement, outflanking, and/or ignoring dangerous terrain and you have a unit that can literally be in your opponent's DZ turn 1 (or outflank from an unexpected direction on turn 2). Being relentless, Black Knights never have to worry about slowing down to maximize firepower or to have the option to charge, so as a Squadron they are truly one of the most mobile non-flyer/non-Eldar Jetbike units available in 40K

 

III -- Survivability -- Power Armor, T5, a 4++ cover save just for moving (up to a 2++ cover save with Turbo-boost and a nearby Dark Shroud) makes these guys even hardier than the average biker, who is already reasonably durable. Being able to attach a PFG Librararian for that 4++ Invul gives them "Fire Insurance" for Heldrakes and their superior mobility, as mentioned above, also adds to their survivability, allowing you to position where the need to be to execute their mission and minimize potential threat damage.

 

Now, two areas that fall outside the "iron trinity:" close combat and integration with the overall army.

 

Regarding close combat, they are not SM Honor Guard or Khorne Terminators, but they still have very respectable assault capability, given their 4 S5 Rending attacks on the charge (and they fact that they are likely to get the charge, vice being charged, due to their mobility). Combined with Rad/Stasis Grenades and they can actually burn through tough enemy units in a surprising fashion. Still not TH/SS Terminators, but given their versatility in so many categories, they are reliable close combat option for a DA Commander.

 

WRT integration with the rest of the army, I have already touched on the utility of their various grenades. Additionally, their Scouting Teleporter Homers can bring in friendly TDA units accurately. Perhaps more intangibly, but very significantly, their versatile nature means they can be "the right tool for the right job" in a whole variety of circumstances, hence their value to a DA commander, since they are almost universally useful, no matter the enemy they are facing or the circumstances of the fight.

 

So, I thought I'd share, not because people don't already realize a lot of this, but because I think with the current bemoaning of C: DA, it is nice to remember that The Unforgiven still have one of the very top-tier units in the game.

[Spaniard]

I don't mean to be an idiot but how are the black knights getting 4 attacks I've only been giving them 3 on the charge. I take it as they still have one hand in the handle bar

[elphilo]

I don't mean to be an idiot but how are the black knights getting 4 attacks I've only been giving them 3 on the charge. I take it as they still have one hand in the handle bar

There isn't a rule that denies them their off hand because they are on a bike. So they have 3 standing still and 4 on the charge. 

[Spaniard]

I guess I never thought about it that way. Thanks brother

[Polythemus]

@Spaniard - they've got pistols dude, they drive with their feet :). hence they really have three base attacks

 

@Leon - its a good assessment. As has been stated in a few other threads, the dark angels still aren't auto-win like tau or elder serpent builds. We really have to work to defeat the enemy in detail. whether superior application of force, or some kind of temporary mobility advantage it is still really a codex where a balanced list will win. black knights play into this strategy. I think that for the most part our codex really is benefitting from the release of other codeci, since ours isn't a power codex the balancing of units sometimes is coming from having units other codexes that exist as hard counters to each other.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

L30n1d4s,

 

Thanks for posting this. I've actually just decided to stick with my DA instead of going to C:SM (was going to do Crimson Fists) and I keep hearing about how we are losing everything and the sky is falling. RWBK are I agree some of the best if not the best units in the Game today. I almost feel bad about bringing them out against our newer players in my play group. We still have the best Terminators period and honestly I don't think our flyers are that bad if you use tactics with them. Though I will say they are no Helldrake. Lastly I love Greenwing to the point I've built an all Drop Pod Battle Company because green tide in Power Armor is just awesome. Bringing 70+ marines in PA have an effect most players can't deal with. So if people want a auto win they can pick up Necrons or Tau ( I am guilty of buying some Tau I must admit) but I have a much better time with my DA and actually learning how to play and not bringing uber squad of doom point click and don't think. My personal opinion of course but it's nice to see someone else thinking DA aren't all doom and gloom.

 

DoC

[imustbedreamin]

I must admit after finding this forum and reading some of the "doom and gloom" posts (not just on here), I was wondering if I was slaving away painting an army which has great fluff but a little.......well meh.

Its good to see some positive stuff and having to learn the game (and more importantly learn to use your army......even if it does take some skill) is very appealing. Who wants to play point...shoot....win anyhow?

I must point out I wouldn't have changed my mind about the army I've chosen......its like a supporting a football team I suppose.

DA for life

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

imustbedreamin,

 

Yeah its an awful lot like following a football team, especially one that maybe doesn't win all the time but isn't the rock bottom either (no pun intended). If you read the topic above this one posted by Tomb asking for noob advice there is a very good post about how you play DA because you love the look and feel of it not because they are the most awesome of awesomesauce. The First Legion makes you learn the rules and your army inside and out before you can really get some good wins under your belt. But from the 4th ed Codex players (I was a very noob noob with it and barely got any games in) I can say they are some of the most respected and skilled players out there. Not saying people who don't play DA suck but our codex defenetly makes you work for it. Learn the units and learn what you like to play and find a way to mesh them together. I love Assault Marines. Sometimes I use them and it is like watching my opponent clubbing baby seals. Other times I feel like I am the Emperor himself and smiting anyone I please at will. And most of the time I figure out that they are really good at being a counter attack force or your defense zone or a good harassing unit but if you think the name "Assault" means you are going to rip apart terminators you are someone I could sell an ocean front home in Arizona too. Ignore the names that GW gives stuff..........it's like their fluff change when and where they will.

 

I like DA because of lots of things. The Robes. The DW and RW. The fact that they have a Paladin (Corswain) who's a bad man. The Lion may have had issues but lets see anyone get dropped off by themselves for several years surrounded by anything and everything that wants to eat you and lets see how normal they turn out. You've got the big bad secret that isn't so secret and you've got some generally good guys trying to fix a jacked up situation and they decided to "follow" the codex asartes but you know it's really not our thing so we'll follow it and do our own thing we just wont tell anyone. Besides its not the worst of our secrets right? All this and the monk/knight feel we've got going made me pick DA when I first started. I've leaned away a bit but honestly I like it more and more the further I look around.

 

DoC

[imustbedreamin]

hi doc.

 

to be fair i'm thoroughly absorbed in the lot.

 

I'm working my way through all of the fluff.....my book shelf is looking good.

i love the fact "we" are a bit mysterious.....and a bit "are they aren't they?" the robes....DW GW and especially RW.......im loving the chuffing lot of it.

 

Lion has a dark side....i like it.....it aint all perfect.....that appeals to me.

 

The way the fallen must repent......quite grim really.........that appeals to me.

 

The fact i'm really going to have to think about how I play my RW is something I relish. 

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Well Cheers brother and good luck making the heretics repent and having the xenos burn.............I find flamers works well for the later and plasma for the former.

 

DoC

[Onisuzume]

L30n1d4s,

 

Thanks for posting this. I've actually just decided to stick with my DA instead of going to C:SM (was going to do Crimson Fists) and I keep hearing about how we are losing everything and the sky is falling.

Never forget, never forgive.

Loyalty is its own reward.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Black Knights aren't even the only good thing we have over our Space Marine Brethren! Our codex is great, maybe not as good as Eldar, but at least as good as the SM Codex.

[Terrahawk]

Agreed, as usual the Internets are overreacting (luckily not here at the B&C). With the exception of a few quirks, shared stuff between us and the SM are identical, we have hands-down better TDA, with the exception of WS better bikes, we have better Warlord traits and IMO do Tactical Marine heavy lists better because of Standard of Devastation & Divination Libbies.

The SM on the other hand have clearly better fliers and AA (luckily we have the Mortis), a more diverse unit selection which is to be expected, better but more costly Relics, and of course a variety of Chapter tactics available.

With the exception of AA, I think both army books are pretty even. The sky is not falling... unless you are a Fallen and we are coming for you.

[Brother Turok]

L30, AMEN BROTHER....

 

I have played DA since early 3rd edition and never used Ravenwing (I always played what units I liked and thought was fun... very DW heavy).  I purchased 2 - now 3 - Black Knight sets when our 6th edition codex was released.  I always take 2 quads of them in any army I play, and they have literally won half my games for me.  Their mobility, abilities, Rending Corvus Hammers, and Plasma Talons have taken out MC's, a Wraith Knight, 10 man squads of TH/SS BA termies w/ FNP and much more.  My gaming group says they are "super cheaty", but they all use their armies "cheese units" so they can say what they want.

 

I will always love DW, but Black Knights are simply one of the best units we have.  I don't believe they are overpowered, they are just great for their cost if used correctly.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

You need 6 BK to run them effectively anyway...

[march10k]

Agreed, as usual the Internets are overreacting (luckily not here at the B&C). With the exception of a few quirks, shared stuff between us and the SM are identical, we have hands-down better TDA, with the exception of WS better bikes, we have better Warlord traits and IMO do Tactical Marine heavy lists better because of Standard of Devastation & Divination Libbies.

The SM on the other hand have clearly better fliers and AA (luckily we have the Mortis), a more diverse unit selection which is to be expected, better but more costly Relics, and of course a variety of Chapter tactics available.

With the exception of AA, I think both army books are pretty even. The sky is not falling... unless you are a Fallen and we are coming for you.

Someone should start a "suff in C: DA that's better than C:UM" thread."

AFIK, they can't get a squad of ten devastators with twinlinked lascannons and a 4++, and certainly not for ~300 points.

RWBK are better than WS bikes, and RW bikes are 95% as good, and far superior to non-WS.

As mentioned, DW blows all else in the TEQ category out of the water.

The dakkapole

The PFG

Venerable land raiders (with PFG= the most unkillable tank in the game)

...and so on.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Black Knights are so awesome that when I put my bike list together, I allied in some Dark Angels to get a Black Knight 'honour guard' for my biking Chapter Master.

[Tiger9gamer]

Still don't know, personally, what to take in terms of command squads. the RWCS with a champion is 205pts and comes with all the good stuff black knights usually get, while GravCom squads have a slightly bigger threat range.

I know the RWCS has the debuff launcher, but most of the time what the Grav squad hits will turn to paste anyways (from what I heard) . I know black knights are better against hordes, and in combat, but I don't fully intend to assault with a grav squad anyways... plus, A pfg libby would really only hamper black knights, as the enemy might get a 4++ in assault and the plasma talons are already twinlinked, While GravCom wholly benefits from TL and a 4++ invuln.

Don't mean to start a flame war (like what happened on Dakka, Dear Emperor that was bad) but just thinking aloud what I feel the differences are...

Definatly plan on making a GravCom squad a "specilized" form of black knights