Alternatives to Sternguard Suicide Pods

[CheeseWhiz]

I've been feeling guilty lately about sending my favorite and most prized ten man sternguard squad to face certain death by turn two every game and have been looking for alternatives. Dropping my lone pod on turn one and disrupting the enemies battle formations is a major point of emphasis in my game-to-game strategy so I'd love some opinions on what else I could put in the pod besides a 300+ point sternguard unit. I've toyed with a stock dreadnought or an ironclad but I was really hoping for some other form of ten man squad so I can go after two units once they hit the table. I only have one drop pod at the moment and am not really in a position to buy more at the moment but any suggestions or ideas for a solution are welcome.

[Son of Carnelian]

Has the tactic not been working or do you just feel guilty? Not trying to be rude, but that might affect the advice I give. 

[Emperors Immortals]

I've done well with a simple 5 man 2 plasma squad in a pod. It. cam threaten most low AV and infantry, though it will die its very cheap. I'm thinking of running a second and dropping both in the DZ.

[CheeseWhiz]

No offense taken, mostly I feel guilty, it's a ten man squad with loads of customized and unique units with by far the best paint job on the table. the way I normally run them these days (10 man, 6 combi-meltas, with the drop pod) comes out at 335 and while they usually get first blood, they don't usually make their points back. Unless my opponnant is so scared by their glorious apprearance that they dedicate their entire army to killing them on turn one.  At the end of the day I should probably just embrace the inevitable death of the vets as they serve their purpose on the battlefield quite well. But i struggle with putting that many points out their to die on turn one even in a 2000 point game.

[Molokai]

Do you usually take out two enemy units by combat squadding? If not then Immortals has the right idea. A smaller squad would seem the obvious change. It would be a lot cheaper anyway.

[minigun762]

Consider that you can only trust your elite veterans to accomplish the goal, regardless of loss of life.

The destruction of an enemy command bunker, or their prized super weapon or a Daemon Prince of Chaos, these are what you send your finest in against, for while the risk is great the reward is greater.

 

 

Fluff ranting aside, a smaller squad does limit the point cost and loss of "lives".

[Schultzhoffen]

"Drop" more than one pod.

 

I have x10 Sternguard kitted out with x5 combi Melta,  x2 combi plasma and a heavy flamer.

 

I combat squad them on the drop. Melta vs armour and so forth...

 

They are supported by either an Ironclad with a HF/MG or a Grey Hunter allies squad with twin plasma (depending on the enemy faced) in a drop pod.

 

This creates multiple headaches immediately.

 

Note: they DO NOT need to make points back in the age of no VPs (read: 4th ed). They simply have to attain first blood/cause havoc/disrupt plans, etc. I'd gladly pay 300-400 points if they can do that for 1-2 turns, allowing the rest of my army to do it's job in a reasonably unmolested way.

[Kaedes Nex]

Sternguard work just fine in a Rhino or even on foot and played conservatively to protect them. You can even pod them in a non-suicidal fashion since you've already got a pod and you can get them into the enemy deployment more quickly that way. Doesn't have to be right in their faces. Disembark behind LoS or terrain.

[Jonah]

If you're after first-turn disruption you could keep the Pod and ally in Belial and some Terminators. It all comes in Turn 1 and causes merry havoc. Deathwing also have Splitfire so potentially you're firing at 4 different targets and then your enemy has to deal with 21 bodies, over half of which are in termie armour.

 

If it's too expensive you could bring the Deathwing squad down to 5 men and downgrade the 10-man Sterns to a 5-man Tac squad with 2 meltas, or put a MM/HF Dread in there instead. the HF is terrifying to most xenos players.

[DarkGuard]

Problem with that Jonah, Deathwing need to be in the primary detachment with Belial to be moved to Troops.

 

With suicide Sternguard, one way is to not use as many. Stick 5 in a Razorback, and then a different squad of 5 in a Pod. With 5 combi-meltas they'll still blow up tanks, and while they'll die quickly the other unit will be able to be more conservative.

 

Otherwise, a Dreadnought is your best bet for an alpha strike unit, or perhaps a Command squad with 5 meltaguns.

 

But do be aware that you don't need a suicide unit to win. There are many people who don't use Drop Pods as suicide units and still win, they just have to play a more conservative game.

[Tiger9gamer]

which chapter tactics are they?  Khan white scar sternies play a little different than Salamander ones, same with ultra marines.

[Lysere]

I've used a ten man Sternguard squad before to great effect, and I've yet to have them wiped out entirely. Last time was 5 Combi-Meltas, 3 Combi-Flamers, and 2 Heavy Flamers. Combat Squad and cause Havoc. The big thing is I didn't drop them in first, I let my Ironclad take that role and dropped him up close but with solid walls blocking sight of my enemies heavy guns.

[Axagoras]

If you want a suicide unit that will get the job done and is the best deal point for point its a command squad with 5 melta guns in a pod and is 20 points cheaper then 5 sg with 5 cm (or 2 mg and 3 cm) And any hq unlocks them besides chapter master. a 10 man squad in 1 pod wont make as big of an impact as 2 5 man squads will.

[minigun762]

If you want a suicide unit that will get the job done and is the best deal point for point its a command squad with 5 melta guns in a pod and is 20 points cheaper then 5 sg with 5 cm (or 2 mg and 3 cm) And any hq unlocks them besides chapter master. a 10 man squad in 1 pod wont make as big of an impact as 2 5 man squads will.

I'm disappointed in myself for taking so long to realize the difference in points between Command and Sternguard squads. Plus the ability to fire more than once.

Looks like I might start running naked SG instead.

[Lysere]

If you want a suicide unit that will get the job done and is the best deal point for point its a command squad with 5 melta guns in a pod and is 20 points cheaper then 5 sg with 5 cm (or 2 mg and 3 cm) And any hq unlocks them besides chapter master. a 10 man squad in 1 pod wont make as big of an impact as 2 5 man squads will.

 

Should they survive the first round though they lose all the tactical flexibility that makes Sternguard so much fun. The only thing unupgraded sternguard aren't able to fight off is heavy vehicles. Other then that their standard boltguns can effectively engage all manner of targets far better than any command squad ever will. Combine this with the weapon options available and they can take on literally anything they wish.

 

Instead of making them the primary lead in make them a back up unit, get two drop pods and stick the one they are in to come in turn 2 or later. Arm them to be effective against several targets then drop them in the enemy backfield onces he's already commited his forces to one plan or another. Disrupting someones plan on the first turn doesn't do as much as it does when you drop in on them turn 2 or 3. I completly reversed a game against orks doing this. Storm Raven and Sternguard came in turn 2, wiped out his right flank loota squad, and with them and the disembarking assault squad I knocked out his incoming Stormboyz with ease.

 

Think of it like the Sternguard are your Trump Card, you wait until someone falls into your trap, and right before he claims the advantage you show your card and turn it around. Not much you can do to stop drop pods, even with interceptor fire.

[Axagoras]

 

If you want a suicide unit that will get the job done and is the best deal point for point its a command squad with 5 melta guns in a pod and is 20 points cheaper then 5 sg with 5 cm (or 2 mg and 3 cm) And any hq unlocks them besides chapter master. a 10 man squad in 1 pod wont make as big of an impact as 2 5 man squads will.

I'm disappointed in myself for taking so long to realize the difference in points between Command and Sternguard squads. Plus the ability to fire more than once.

Looks like I might start running naked SG instead.

All good man, took me a while to see it. But what do you mean by firing more then once? And lysere 5 sternguard will always die the turn they land, if your goal is to blow up a tank for first blood then you might as well go a cheap as possible.

[minigun762]

I mean combi weapons are one shot whereas the actual Meltagun can keep firing until you die.

[CheeseWhiz]

Great points everyone I appreciate the insight, I don't have my new codex handy but I thought I remembered command squads no longer have access to special weapons, I'll have to look into that when I get the chance. I am definitely tempted to replace the suicide squad with an ironclad and drop the sternguard later on as reinforcements, sounds like a strong strategy to back up my bike squads that are usually advancing at the same time.

[CheeseWhiz]

Here's a crazy idea I plan to try against some IG tomorrow. Playing Ultramarines, drop a ten man dev squad with four multi meltas and a sergeant with a combi-melta and melta bombs in a pod with a deathwind on turn one. I know the heavy weapons will only be able to snap fire on the first turn but I can use the combi-melta to get one shot off if necessary and on the second turn I can rely on the devastator doctrine to give them relentless on turn two as they move out from behind terrain to pop the juicy tanks. I imagine I'm just getting a bit too cute with this whole idea by now and it's a strategy that might only work on an army without a lot of response team, assaulty units, like guard but half the fun of playing friendly games is trying wacky things that have never been done before.

[minigun762]

Here's a crazy idea I plan to try against some IG tomorrow. Playing Ultramarines, drop a ten man dev squad with four multi meltas and a sergeant with a combi-melta and melta bombs in a pod with a deathwind on turn one. I know the heavy weapons will only be able to snap fire on the first turn but I can use the combi-melta to get one shot off if necessary and on the second turn I can rely on the devastator doctrine to give them relentless on turn two as they move out from behind terrain to pop the juicy tanks. I imagine I'm just getting a bit too cute with this whole idea by now and it's a strategy that might only work on an army without a lot of response team, assaulty units, like guard but half the fun of playing friendly games is trying wacky things that have never been done before.

 

I thought of a similar idea but was shot down. Maybe it could work with Vulkan & Salamanders since you can at least reroll those snap shots.

[madman2980]

Would it not also work if you put a libby with Endurance with them?

 

I'm just being expiremental here, I've never tried it myself

[CheeseWhiz]

Not a bad idea madman except the librarian takes up a spot in the pod so you lose the ability to combat squad, also even with a mastery level two psyker theres only a %33 chance of rolling endurance. I think I'll just wind up dropping a five man squad with a melta and combi melta on the back line, I feel they're most likely to earn their points back.

[minigun762]

What sounds better for drop pods?

Combi Melta Sternguard and Plasma Command Squad

or

Combi Plasma Sternguard and Melta Command Squad

[Reinholt]

I would lean towards the plasma command squad; if you are going to be busy burning yourself with dangerous technology, you might as well do it while standing right next to the medic.

[minigun762]

I would lean towards the plasma command squad; if you are going to be busy burning yourself with dangerous technology, you might as well do it while standing right next to the medic.

That was a big concern.

The flipside is I save 20-25 points going with Melta Guns over Plasma Guns.