Deathwing Terminators, Assault Cannon or Plasma Cannon?

[McFisty]

If I deep strike with Belial, which heavy weapon will perform the best? Also, which will be better without the twin-linkage from deep striking in subsequent turns? I need math hammer help determining effectiveness against AP 2 as well as light and heavy tank armor. What are your thoughts?

 

For The Lion!

[DarkGuard]

The plasma cannon won't benefit from twin-linked IIRC, so out of your choices that makes the assault cannon the better choice. To be honest, if you're dropping a unit with Belial, that's the best choice. It matches the range of the storm bolters, and it's got more shots to benefit from twin-linked, and Belial won't scatter, so you can place it perfectly.

[McFisty]

Actually, on pg. 37 under the Gets Hot rule, there is a subsection that describes how weapons that get a re-roll may re-roll their gets hot rolls even if the weapon does not roll to hit, i.e. scatter weapons. The section on twin-linked blast weapons on pg. 43 is also helpful. My main reason for asking this question is because I have consistently run assault cannons and have had problems with 2+ armor saves. Rending has not been reliable enough to ignore those saves, especially now in 6th. ed. My opponents seem to have an overabundance of AP 2 weapons to ignore my terminator armor. I hope that some plasma cannons might balance this for me.

 

My own math skills have room for improvement but my math hammer tells me that rending is better against AV, especially AV 13 and 14. I really need help against 2+ and even 3+ armor. Do you think that plasma can help enough to be worth taking in this ant-infantry situation? Re-rolls from twin-linkage when deep striking and if teamed up with a Librarian using prescience might offset the gets hot rule and scatter rolls. What are your thoughts on this?

[DarkGuard]

I'd still run the assault cannons then, because that's the best weapon for that sort of unit. If you're struggling with 2+ armour, you have a couple of options. One is to include some Greenwing units with plasma cannons and plasma guns, or some Ravenwing with plasma guns, or even have some foot slogging Deathwing with plasma cannon. Another is to include thunder hammers and storm shields in that unit, and maybe others, so you can take out those tough units in assault.

[Reichfaust]

Plasma cannon Terminators are one of the awesome special things that only DA get. I'd take them wherever possible, if I had the option ;)

[DarkGuard]

But if you take nothing but plasma cannon units, then you'll have nothing to handle tanks etc. Just because you're the only Codex that can take it doesn't mean you should take it doesn't mean you should. Otherwise all Marine armies will have a ton of grav weapons, that'll also create an unbalanced list.

[McFisty]

I won a game last night where the plasma cannon worked out very well. Especially when teamed up with a Librarian for prescience, the re-rolls for gets hot and the scatter dice make the plasma cannon an outstanding choice. Although I have had a long standing love affair with assault cannons, I have a new relationship with plasma cannons that has long term potential

[DarkGuard]

Plasma cannons are not a bad weapon for Terminators. However, I wouldn't take more than 2 in the entire force, and I'd want to have at least a couple of CMLs as well, possibly other anti-tank weapons. And I wouldn't take them a Belial squad, I feel the assault cannon is too good for that unit.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

Dark Angels also have more ability to mix the load-out of ther terminator squads.  Deathwing don't divide into assault/shooting camps like Space Marines.  You can take (for example and not as advice) a heavy weapon/PF, 1 2xlightning claw, a TH/SS, a PF/SB, and a CF/SB.  You could also (I think - don't have book with me) take a heavy flamer/PF, 2x SS/TH and 2x 2xLC.  I don't think the Space Marines can put heavy flamers in "assault terminator" squads.  Also, the CML is an add-on, not a replacement so you can have a Th/SS terminator carrying a CML along.  Finally, the Deathwing has split fire so you don't have to worry that your heavy weapon might be shooting at a different kind of target than the rest of the squad.

 

Personally, if I use Belial, he's almost always with a more assault geared squad.  I find that being exactly where I want to be (like between two lieces of LOS blocking cover) is more important for them than it is for more shooty squads.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

^McFisty,

 

^{I'll say this we get great stuff with DA sure and I'm sure you know the whole synergy thing blah blah blah. personally I like to use a full 10man with dual heavy flamers. Reasoning is as follows: almost everyone is bring Aegis Defense line or something else in cover that must die (or I'd like to kill ASAP) my local meta they usually have something important or dangerous near that cover. Use the No Scatter Deepstrike and fry whatever it is out of the cover and use the TL for wounds with the Heavy Flamers. If you need to kill 2+ or armor then the CML does great along with the plasma cannon for their respective roles. If you want multi purpose use the AssCan. Rending lets you kill the tank most of the time especially with TL and Rending and you'll kill a tank or two. No math hammer and I don't mean to insult your intelligence with all this I'm telling you what works for me. Use the HF with Belial and you don't have to worry about splitting too much.  Also your Deathwing should be deepstriking fairly close so that's always good support and you can split Belial and allow you let him break off and then attach him to someone who fits more his style. That's my take anyway. Mostly AssCan's one big squad with HF's. If you really want and have the points add the Plasma Cannon to a Command Squad with FNP and viola you can give yourself a bit more reliability. Pretty much same cost as the a Normal DW squad but a little more security. I also use the Ravenwing Black Knights for my plasma killing needs.  Anti Tank for me is in the form of Attack Bikes with Multi Melta and Regular Ravenwing with Meltaguns.  AssCan Deathwing work the best for me and letting the other units cover everything else is working well. Do the scout move with the bikes move your 12" and then  you can either mass fire or support and if you don't need the bikes to shoot turbo boost and get the jink and extra movement but keep the bikes near the DW and you've got a helluva Alpha strike.}

 

^{So like I said plasma and Melta via the bikes and then Assault Cannon the hell out of everything else. Heavy Flamer for good frying stuff. Plasma Cannon for the occasional need. My two cents and it is pretty fluffy if that's your gig.}